Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defund the police doesn't mean literally get rid of police and having no more police (a few mean that but most don't). It means that police are now responsible for areas that they didn't used to be, including mental health crises, homelessness, drug issues, school behavior issues, etc. that should be handled by other social services.

Defund the police means to shift some of the police budgets from the police to other social services, including community centers, youth leagues, social workers, home nurses and therapists, etc. Municipal funds can and should be reexamined and redistributed to invest in cities, not just tanks for police departments. What would you want to see to make your area a better place?

What can go wrong ?

You think reallocating funds will result in more police killing people in chokeholds? Really?

Anonymous wrote:I have developed my own slogan which I think better embraces the thoughts behind the statement. It is Reduce, Reallocate, Reform

Reduce what?

Anonymous wrote:The OP asked about defunding vs. reform generally, not in any one city. This has become a national discussion. It has been brought up in all major cities.

It’s been brought up in all cities and the citizenry of those respective cities will decide what works best for them.
What’s the problem?
All the folks screaming in terror and hollering about how horrific it’ll be aren’t under threat of some National ordinance.
You have a vote you choose your elected officials ultimately YOU decide what’s best for your city.
All these supposed States Rights advocates who are so animate about wanting to be able to chose how they live their lives in their cities - they want to ban abortions and say the Lord’s Prayer in school and want everyone to stay the hell out of their business, but their pissing their pants and having conniption fits cause another city wants to put more money into jobs and education and mental healthcare than the police force. How about you mind YOUR business?

Anonymous wrote:Defund the police doesn't mean literally get rid of police and having no more police (a few mean that but most don't). It means that police are now responsible for areas that they didn't used to be, including mental health crises, homelessness, drug issues, school behavior issues, etc. that should be handled by other social services.

Defund the police means to shift some of the police budgets from the police to other social services, including community centers, youth leagues, social workers, home nurses and therapists, etc. Municipal funds can and should be reexamined and redistributed to invest in cities, not just tanks for police departments. What would you want to see to make your area a better place?

What can go wrong ?

Anonymous wrote:https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/8/21281998/chicago-violence-murder-history-homicide-police-crime

While Chicago police were diverted to area protests, Chicago experienced its most violent day in 60 years.

18 murders in 24 hours.

Gangs are rampant in Chicago. When white liberals are wiling to relocate to these areas in Chicago's south and west sides, we'll see how awesome "community-led" security sounds to average citizens.

Defunding the police is a movement started and run by people who already live in those communities, not white people from the suburbs. You don't need white people to move in to validate their concerns; the people who experience both the most police violence and the most of the violence the police theoretically control (they don't as you yourself admit when you call gangs rampant) are calling for the police to go.

18 murders this past weekend in Chicago poster here and I take back the "white liberal" comment. Sorry. I challenge ANYONE not already living in those murder-ridden areas to move there and Then discuss ending/defunding police department.

Anonymous wrote:You can wish clear definitions away as much as you want.

The MN City Council stated "End"

End = End

End

Yes, Minneapolis is disbanding their current police department and will replace it with something else. Defund the police is not what Minneapolis is doing. They're doing something else.

The OP asked about defunding vs. reform generally, not in any one city. This has become a national discussion. It has been brought up in all major cities.

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/minneapolis-city-council-defund-police-george-floyd

"Speaking at a community rally on Sunday, a veto-proof majority of council members declared their intent to “dismantle” and “abolish” the embattled police agency responsible for George Floyd’s death – and build an alternative model of community-led safety."

Exactly what a new “community-led” public safety program will entail is still up for discussion. But IMHO...this is a dangerous path.

Agree that there needs to be reform and accountability....but I sure hope this doesn't become a national trend.

We are decades into "reform and accountability" and police are still murdering people. Look at police behavior over the last two weeks. Teargassing nonviolent protesters, using rubber bullets against their training, shoving the elderly, drawing weapons on preschoolers. On and on and on.

Forgive me if I've lost faith in "reform and accountability" but it may be time to admit the system is broken. The cops we have are not the cops who can be trusted with "reform and accountability" and maybe the answer is to fire every last one and rehire the decent ones into a totally revamped system.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2020/6/8/21281998/chicago-violence-murder-history-homicide-police-crime

While Chicago police were diverted to area protests, Chicago experienced its most violent day in 60 years.

18 murders in 24 hours.

Gangs are rampant in Chicago. When white liberals are wiling to relocate to these areas in Chicago's south and west sides, we'll see how awesome "community-led" security sounds to average citizens.

Anonymous wrote:You can wish clear definitions away as much as you want.

The MN City Council stated "End"

End = End

End

Do you live in Minneapolis?
If not then what you stressing for it’s not ENDING in all 50 states it’s “ending” in that city alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/07/minneapolis-city-council-defund-police-george-floyd

"Speaking at a community rally on Sunday, a veto-proof majority of council members declared their intent to “dismantle” and “abolish” the embattled police agency responsible for George Floyd’s death – and build an alternative model of community-led safety."

Exactly what a new “community-led” public safety program will entail is still up for discussion. But IMHO...this is a dangerous path.

Agree that there needs to be reform and accountability....but I sure hope this doesn't become a national trend.

You can wish clear definitions away as much as you want.

The MN City Council stated "End"

End = End

End

Anonymous wrote:Minneapolis City council itself is using the words “ending” and “disbanding” it’s police department. Those descriptive words are clear.

https://kstp.com/news/majority-of-minneapolis-city-council-announces-support-for-dismantling-police-department/5753304/

Yes, and they're words that people easily associate with "defund" and "abolish."

I'm a proud lifelong liberal. However, liberals/Democrats have a self-inflicted messaging nightmare on our hands if we don't get away from "defund" or "abolish"

Someone said earlier, "Reduce. Reallocate. Reform." I like this much better.

Minneapolis City council itself is using the words “ending” and “disbanding” it’s police department. Those descriptive words are clear.

https://kstp.com/news/majority-of-minneapolis-city-council-announces-support-for-dismantling-police-department/5753304/