Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 09:05     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Mid level associates should NOT let their spouses SAH. The odds are you will not make partner, anywhere, and will take a massive pay cut eventually.

It blows my mind when (obviously mostly male) associates do this.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:54     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
You CAN have all, but you are going to be exhausted and something has to suffer - your kid will have a half assed Mom or your firm will have a half assed lawyer. You pick.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:46     Subject: Re:Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:This is easy - hire a nanny!

Don’t quit. Try other ideas before going all extreme and quitting.

The sad truth is that having kids is hard. You may be surprised if you quit that staying home isn’t easy either. Nor is a job making less money with fewer hours.


Usually the best option is to focus on work and have everything at home taken care of for you. This is the option most white males choose.


This is true too. And people sometimes underestimate how family friendly biglaw actually is until they leave. A friend left biglaw for government and was surprised to learn how hard it was to make doctors appointments or go to parent/teacher conferences. In biglaw you just do what you want/need and make it up. You never have to put in for a sick day or anything.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:43     Subject: Re:Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
This is easy - hire a nanny!

Don’t quit. Try other ideas before going all extreme and quitting.

The sad truth is that having kids is hard. You may be surprised if you quit that staying home isn’t easy either. Nor is a job making less money with fewer hours.


Usually the best option is to focus on work and have everything at home taken care of for you. This is the option most white males choose.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:42     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am one of the posters who started off with a baby in biglaw and transitioned to another position -- ignore the posters who are making you feel bad about how important this time is. The truth is the important time will be the years your child remembers as they grow into adulthood -- when they look back on their childhood, were you never there or were you? Before 5ish is the time to have this kind of job. the problem is that the job doesn't change then either.


OP. Thanks for this. I’ll be honest, the missing the time stuff hurts (like sometimes I miss her so much it physically hurts), but I don’t feel guilt about this. She’s obsessed with her dad and squeals and giggles when she sees her teachers. She’s happy, so I don’t feel guilt. But definitely heat what you’re saying about not being around when she’s older.


I sooo know what you mean about it hurting to be away. That’s why I put my second in the firm daycare (Arnold & Porter’s). I visited every day at lunch.

The nanny’s idea about lunch visits is a good one. Our au pair did that with my first sometimes.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:41     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
In academic medicine, not big law, but there are some similarities. And all my sympathies.... i had twins & basically don’t remember the first year of their life. I was so so exhausted & miserable, but I was too tired to cry. it gets better when the kids are older.
I do a “split shift” too, which is doable bc we live near the hospital - come in sort of late (9), work until 6, and go back to work 8:30-midnight. We had a nanny - there are pros & cons to that - my husband did a lousy job as a parent to infants/toddlers (he’s much better now!) so a nanny was key for my sanity; however, if your husband is helpful daycare is likely fine.
Anyway, mostly here to say I feel your pain & it will almost certainly get better as the kid gets older. I get a lot of satisfaction from my work & helping patients, so sticking it out has (so far) been worth it!
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:40     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
This is a very long thread, and I can't read the whole thing, but I'm guessing you need to outsource a lot more. First step is nanny. Don't cheap out. Find someone who can eventually drive so they can take your kid to part time pre-school and enrichment classes when they are a bit older.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:36     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP. For more context - debt is scheduled to be repaid in about a year, and I'm subject to a claw-back for maternity leave, so it really does not make any financial sense to leave right now. Monthly debt payment is large, so we could not afford to make monthly expenses without my salary while still paying down debt. Our financial position will be quite different once debt is paid off. I did some nonprofit work before this job, so I have not been paying loans as aggressively as someone who was continuously big law.

And, to be honest, I've worked really hard to get to a place to do the type of work I'm doing now, so I do want to stick it out a little longer - I just wish it were more manageable.


What are the terms of your clawback? Does the firm really enforce that?

This is more out of curiosity than suggesting you should bail when it is finished or wouldn’t be enforced. I hadn’t realized that was something firms do.


I don’t actually know. Haven’t been able to find much on the terms, just a reference to it in the firm manual.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:34     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:I am one of the posters who started off with a baby in biglaw and transitioned to another position -- ignore the posters who are making you feel bad about how important this time is. The truth is the important time will be the years your child remembers as they grow into adulthood -- when they look back on their childhood, were you never there or were you? Before 5ish is the time to have this kind of job. the problem is that the job doesn't change then either.


OP. Thanks for this. I’ll be honest, the missing the time stuff hurts (like sometimes I miss her so much it physically hurts), but I don’t feel guilt about this. She’s obsessed with her dad and squeals and giggles when she sees her teachers. She’s happy, so I don’t feel guilt. But definitely heat what you’re saying about not being around when she’s older.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:26     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:OP. For more context - debt is scheduled to be repaid in about a year, and I'm subject to a claw-back for maternity leave, so it really does not make any financial sense to leave right now. Monthly debt payment is large, so we could not afford to make monthly expenses without my salary while still paying down debt. Our financial position will be quite different once debt is paid off. I did some nonprofit work before this job, so I have not been paying loans as aggressively as someone who was continuously big law.

And, to be honest, I've worked really hard to get to a place to do the type of work I'm doing now, so I do want to stick it out a little longer - I just wish it were more manageable.


What are the terms of your clawback? Does the firm really enforce that?

This is more out of curiosity than suggesting you should bail when it is finished or wouldn’t be enforced. I hadn’t realized that was something firms do.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:25     Subject: Re:Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Big law just isn't worth it. Have an exit strategy, get a great salary with 50% of the hours. What you are doing now is digging an early grave.


But it’s nowhere near 50% of the hours, particularly if it is a remotely “great” salary. If OP has debt, there is something to be said for staying at least long enough to plow through the debt and ideally give yourself a nice nest egg to get started on the positive side.


Not really. The longer you wait (especially if you're not doing a great job at Biglaw) the harder it can be to transition into a non-Big Law job. Although I strongly believe that OP can find a new job, waiting too long until you're senior (for the new workplace) can be a mistake. What she wants is to hit a sweet spot where she can be hired in a bit lower in the pyramid at the new job, because that is a much easier transition to make.


I don’t agree, unless you are lateraling into another fairly large firm. Then, you have issues of either needing to come in with a book of business or you risk being too senior for an associate role. But if you are talking in-house or government I don’t see a risk of her waiting as long as she wants, especially since it seems she is pretty junior right now.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:00     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
I am one of the posters who started off with a baby in biglaw and transitioned to another position -- ignore the posters who are making you feel bad about how important this time is. The truth is the important time will be the years your child remembers as they grow into adulthood -- when they look back on their childhood, were you never there or were you? Before 5ish is the time to have this kind of job. the problem is that the job doesn't change then either.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 08:00     Subject: Re:Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Big law just isn't worth it. Have an exit strategy, get a great salary with 50% of the hours. What you are doing now is digging an early grave.


But it’s nowhere near 50% of the hours, particularly if it is a remotely “great” salary. If OP has debt, there is something to be said for staying at least long enough to plow through the debt and ideally give yourself a nice nest egg to get started on the positive side.


Not really. The longer you wait (especially if you're not doing a great job at Biglaw) the harder it can be to transition into a non-Big Law job. Although I strongly believe that OP can find a new job, waiting too long until you're senior (for the new workplace) can be a mistake. What she wants is to hit a sweet spot where she can be hired in a bit lower in the pyramid at the new job, because that is a much easier transition to make.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 07:57     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
Anonymous wrote:I’m a SAHM with big law partner spouse and I’m shocked everyone is telling you to quit (would they say this to a man?!?)

You need more hired help, and your DH needs to handle arranging it. He should be in charge of 95% of household and childcare tasks, and the only thing on your plate most days should be time with the kids. Ideally that means hiring a nanny, getting prepped meals delivered, having house cleaner who does laundry, etc. And DH should be in charge of managing the hired help, and being back-up should something fall through. Then while he’s “in charge” of 95%, he doesn’t actually DO 95%.

This is how the men do it. It’s not just the outsourcing - it’s the not even thinking about the outsourcing.

Also, my DH is home for the 6-8 stretch with the kids most nights, but if he’s not, it’s no big deal. This was not the case when he was a mid-level (luckily kids were way younger). The more senior you get the easier it is to block off that time.

Stay in the game! I wish more women did, and I wish more women had husbands who do what wives do for men.


they're telling her to quit because it's extremely rare to find a man who will actually do everything a woman would do as a SAHM. Not impossible, but rare. also, they're telling her to quit because when the genders are switched, to a certain extent, this demonstrates how pointless jobs like Biglaw that consume your entire life are, for any gender. Also, there are many options between quitting Biglaw and quitting work. many, many other ways to practice law that don't involve so much pressure.
Anonymous
Post 01/14/2020 07:47     Subject: Trying to handle baby + big law and failing miserably. Talk me down.
OP, BTDT when I had my first.

I would encourage you to keep working, of course -- this too shall pass. But start to reposition yourself to go a different direction -- and that doesn't mean just a different law job, but think about what you can do to untie the golden handcuffs. Whether it is downsizing the mortgage or cars or a good public school district -- have a 2 year plan that will enable you to live on much less unless you want to be stuck doing this forever.

It doesn't get better. The demands will still be there. If that isn't for you, there are so many other things out there you could be doing with your skills, and make a decent living without killing yourself burning the candle at both ends. I make 1/2 of what I did, but I'd never ever consider going back. And I actually find my work more meaningful now, because I help individual people instead of corporations.