Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:11
Subject: Re:17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
OP, you’re the parent. Your son is still a minor. Regardless, as long as he’s living under your roof, you’re paying for his education and presumably his car, cell phone and everything else. Until he is independent, living on his own and paying his own bills, he must respect your rules. Lying to you is not acceptable. Defying you is not acceptable. Unless he feels the sting of consequences, he’ll continue to defy your rules and disrespect you. If my kid did this, he’d have no NYE and no cell phone or car for a month.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:10
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sure he is lying but so is OP. If she saw his texts and knew what was happening, why didn't she confront him then? Instead she is being a drama queen stalking the friend's house at 3 in the morning, calling his phone when he is either sleeping or not there, and using that to fuel her drama.
This. And Dad is sleeping ?!?! -- so I think we are not even close to getting the full story.
What a conveniently timed technology “glitch” for OP. No way that happened as OP stated. She clearly has found a way to access her son’s texts. Sounds like my mom would have done if the technology had existed in the 90s. She found every way to violate my privacy even without technology. Now she wonders why I don’t have a close relationship with her and my dad, and why I have never confided in her about anything. That trust was destroyed decades ago. I would have had respect for their rules if they had given me an inch of breathing space and not made me feel like I had to hide everything about my life.
DP., PP. This thread is not about you. OP is not your mom. Would love to hear your mom's side of the story. Maybe you are the piece of work. Go get therapy elsewhere and don't pour your crap all over OP.
NP. I think PP has a valid point. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean it’s not something OP should consider.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:08
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Op, 14:02 here. I think you personally need to have a closer relationship with her parents. You need to have contact. There would be reason to exchange numbers.
Very helpful when one family alerts the other, " ... just so you know ... we will be out of town xx date until zz date. In case knowing that information is helpful"
We considered that common courtesy when we knew our teens were "in a relationship" and other parents may be making decisions re: best approach to parenting.
Very helpful when one family alerts the other, " ... just so you know ... we will be out of town xx date until zz date. In case knowing that information is helpful"
We considered that common courtesy when we knew our teens were "in a relationship" and other parents may be making decisions re: best approach to parenting.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:08
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:No teen falls asleep at a friend's house at 11 pm, certainly not if boning his girlfriend is on the table. It bothers me more that he blew off his family trip after his siblings expressed how important it was to them.
This. I'd tell him while he lives in your house the expectation is that he attends long planned family vacations unless he is scheduled to work or has school commitment he can't miss.
Also, saw your post about paying for grad school. NO, No, No. Tell him now you pay for college only. You may need that money to care for your parents or yourselves.
Nursing homes cost $300 per day now.
Does he work? Time for him to get a job. You have HIM get the job. No plush DCUM internship in a fancy office. Tell him he needs to get a job to start paying for gas and dates.
Summers....let him know that the expectation now that he is graduating is that he works summers.
He can go to a temp service, Giant, restaurant, retail etc.
Teens that are working and studying will have less time to get in trouble.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:08
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
So the GF family is going away and leaving their 17 yo DD home alone when they know she has a boyfriend around? Presumably they're okay with them having sex...clearly that's gonna happen.
The lying and disrespect is the issue...of course maybe that's a reaction to OPs intense helicoptering here.
The lying and disrespect is the issue...of course maybe that's a reaction to OPs intense helicoptering here.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:04
Subject: Re:17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.
This is not true. Don't you watch the news?
No, I read criminal codes. I find that is a more effective way to determine what is legal.
OP's son's behavior is legal in all states except for Illinois, New York, and Wisconsin. If OP and her family live in Virginia, his conduct is currently lawful, but will be illegal when he turns 18.
And even in those states, the chance of prosecution would be exceedingly low, although then the fears/threats in this thread wouldn’t be completely unfounded.
They still wouldn’t prosecute because of the four year rule
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:02
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sure he is lying but so is OP. If she saw his texts and knew what was happening, why didn't she confront him then? Instead she is being a drama queen stalking the friend's house at 3 in the morning, calling his phone when he is either sleeping or not there, and using that to fuel her drama.
This. And Dad is sleeping ?!?! -- so I think we are not even close to getting the full story.
What a conveniently timed technology “glitch” for OP. No way that happened as OP stated. She clearly has found a way to access her son’s texts. Sounds like my mom would have done if the technology had existed in the 90s. She found every way to violate my privacy even without technology. Now she wonders why I don’t have a close relationship with her and my dad, and why I have never confided in her about anything. That trust was destroyed decades ago. I would have had respect for their rules if they had given me an inch of breathing space and not made me feel like I had to hide everything about my life.
DP.
, PP. This thread is not about you. OP is not your mom. Would love to hear your mom's side of the story. Maybe you are the piece of work. Go get therapy elsewhere and don't pour your crap all over OP.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 14:02
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
OP - I am so confused by your first sentence. I can't get past your first sentence where you are questioning IF you should feel it's inappropriate? Of course it's inappropriate. Geez Op. However Op, a couple thoughts:
- your son is not unique. Not unique. And not unique if he lies to you. There is no reason to take it personally. This has NOTHING to do with his relationship with you. Do not make this about you. His relationship WITH YOU is the furthest thing on his mind.
- young men trying to have their first sexual experience has been happening since the beginning of time. There is nothing new here.
- Most important is -since you know or suspect- activity YOUR son would be involved in and HER parents (or reasonable judgement of most parents) would disapprove of, you have the absolute responsibility to prevent it from happening. Because you know.
- Btw, I feel differently ...if it happened and you didn't know. I wouldn't be someone who thinks any less of your son, or the young woman. They want to be together and learn about each other without the pressure of time constraints. That may or may not mean they are ready/or will perform intercourse. There is a lot of getting-to-know each other behavior that doesn't reach that description. And even if, they are likely to take precautions.
- your son is not unique. Not unique. And not unique if he lies to you. There is no reason to take it personally. This has NOTHING to do with his relationship with you. Do not make this about you. His relationship WITH YOU is the furthest thing on his mind.
- young men trying to have their first sexual experience has been happening since the beginning of time. There is nothing new here.
- Most important is -since you know or suspect- activity YOUR son would be involved in and HER parents (or reasonable judgement of most parents) would disapprove of, you have the absolute responsibility to prevent it from happening. Because you know.
- Btw, I feel differently ...if it happened and you didn't know. I wouldn't be someone who thinks any less of your son, or the young woman. They want to be together and learn about each other without the pressure of time constraints. That may or may not mean they are ready/or will perform intercourse. There is a lot of getting-to-know each other behavior that doesn't reach that description. And even if, they are likely to take precautions.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:56
Subject: Re:17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.
This is not true. Don't you watch the news?
No, I read criminal codes. I find that is a more effective way to determine what is legal.
OP's son's behavior is legal in all states except for Illinois, New York, and Wisconsin. If OP and her family live in Virginia, his conduct is currently lawful, but will be illegal when he turns 18.
When he turns 18, his gf will be 17. Still fine.
Nope, not in Virginia. The Virginia law is stupidly written, but it is what it is. A 17 year +364 day old can have sex with a 15 year old, but an 18 year old can't have sex with a 17 year +364 day old.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:52
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
No teen falls asleep at a friend's house at 11 pm, certainly not if boning his girlfriend is on the table. It bothers me more that he blew off his family trip after his siblings expressed how important it was to them.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:46
Subject: Re:17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.
This is not true. Don't you watch the news?
No, I read criminal codes. I find that is a more effective way to determine what is legal.
OP's son's behavior is legal in all states except for Illinois, New York, and Wisconsin. If OP and her family live in Virginia, his conduct is currently lawful, but will be illegal when he turns 18.
And even in those states, the chance of prosecution would be exceedingly low, although then the fears/threats in this thread wouldn’t be completely unfounded.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:44
Subject: Re:17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.
This is not true. Don't you watch the news?
No, I read criminal codes. I find that is a more effective way to determine what is legal.
OP's son's behavior is legal in all states except for Illinois, New York, and Wisconsin. If OP and her family live in Virginia, his conduct is currently lawful, but will be illegal when he turns 18.
When he turns 18, his gf will be 17. Still fine.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:38
Subject: Re:17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The posters citing concerns about statutory rape are almost certainly misguided. First, in many, if not most, states a 16 year old has reached the age of consent. Second, many states require there to be a significant age gap even if one party has not reached the broader age of consent. A 17 year old sleeping with a 16 year old would not realistically face legal consequences for consensual behavior.
This is not true. Don't you watch the news?
No, I read criminal codes. I find that is a more effective way to determine what is legal.
OP's son's behavior is legal in all states except for Illinois, New York, and Wisconsin. If OP and her family live in Virginia, his conduct is currently lawful, but will be illegal when he turns 18.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:34
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:I was one of the posters with a son and daughter that mentioned statutory rape and really don’t care if it’s technically legal or not. I was thinking of DH and my reaction if we found out our teen daughter had her older BF sleep over when we were gone. Sure, maybe it wouldn’t be illegal but we’d try to make his life hell and hers. That’s what we’d be warning our son about. Angry parents.
I don’t know what we would do in your situation but I admire how calm you are being. I’m following for advice if we end up in a similar situation someday.
Not sure why you blame the boy... and no you would not make his life miserable because what he did was legal.
Anonymous
12/31/2019 13:31
Subject: 17 year old son planning on tricking us to spend night with gf -gf’s parents away
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. First of all thanks for all the very helpful perspectives.
To address the texts issue, he said his phone crashed and he’d lost access to the Appleid-this was the day before. He asked me for the password and I sent it to him. When he reconnected his texts started coming to my phone just at the time he was making his plans. At first I though they were my 9 year old’s texts which do come to my phone but I saw some non-9year old language popping up so I opened the texts.
I sort of panicked to be honest. I didn’t want him to know I’d read his texts. He’s become so so prickly these days and Im walking on egg shells all the time. I was nervous about telling him. We’d just had a huge huge argument just 2 days prior because he simply refused to go on our long planned family holiday and told us the day we were supposed to leave. His sisters (11 and 9, who think the world of him) were in tears begging him to come. He was adamant -clearly because he’d planned all these events with his gf while her parents were away. To cut a very long and painful story short, his sisters really wanted him to be with us so we rescheduled the trip but it was a very ugly situation -his sisters crying and begging him to come, us reasoning that it was a planned family holiday and he should prioritize family etc. but he just stood there uncaring and sticking to his guns which is so unlike him-he’s such a soft, kind hearted boy.
Anyway we had formed an uneasy truce (the protecting the relationship before they leave ) so I just did not want to bring the texts up. I changed the settings in my phone so I could no longer see his texts and just reminded him before he left that he needed to be home by 12 because he insisted on taking his car and that if he felt he would break the 12 curfew to leave his car and uber home. He said he would definitely be back by 12 and, because he’d also said in the texts that he did not feel comfortable carrying out the plans, which is more in line with his usual behavior, I thought he’d rethought them and decided against them.
At 12:15 I get a text saying he’s spending the night at his friend’s. My antennae were immediately raised because of what I’d read in the texts. I reminded him that sleepovers were always off the table and that he could hang out for a while since he said there were other friends there but to be home by 2.
I saw the dots appear when someone is about to reply but he clearly decided to just ignore me and he never responded so I called and he didn’t answer. I sent a text saying I was not going to bother home anymore but that I expected him home by 2 or to expect to stay home for NYE. Again I saw the dots but no reply came. That was why I went to the friend’s house.
Anyway as you all know I decided to come back home.
He arrived home at 11 am all antagonistic about the texts I’d sent him “after he’d fallen asleep”. He said he did nothing wrong, that he’d told me he was spending the night and had promptly fallen asleep.
I know he is lying because I know he saw my texts evidenced by the dots that appear when the respondent is replying (I saw them after both texts but no reply arrived) but he chose to ignore me. I have no real proof that he slept at his gf’s house except the texts. It’s conceivable that they all (gf included) slept at the friend’s house. It is also a conceivable that he executed his original plan and left the phone at his friend’s and collected it this morning or that his friend drove it to him and he simply drove home. I don’t know.
I haven’t yet responded to him. I told him I was tired and would discuss later.
I have no idea what to do. Give him the benefit of the huge doubt and accept that he slept at his friend’s and just penalize for not responding to my texts when I know he received them so that he could spend the night -which is a hard rule at our house except if it’s a designated vacation away with friends?
This is my first go round. I do not want to push him away but I do not want him to think he can flaunt all rules because he’s going on 18 in 9 months. I know it’s normal for teens to rebel but his rebellion covers a lot of things here and I had not even considered the statutory rape issue. I just thought it was disrespectful to defy her parents and stay when they had specifically said he could not.
I am stumped.
He was definitely wherever his car is. OP, i know you are freaked out and operating on very little sleep, but you need to stop spinning all kinds of potential scenarios that might be better.
You sound a little afraid of your son at this point. Understandable given this is all new territory and behavior, but you have lost control as a parent. This happened the minute you postponed the vacation. Your son knows this too and will continue to lie and break through boundaries. I agree with whoever said you need to stop coming here for advice and bring your husband into the conversation. Have confidence in your values and ideas as a parent, have a sit down with your son later this afternoon once you've all had a break and explain all the ways he has strayed, mostly the lying, and I guess you are all in for a quiet New Years Eve at home.
Good luck
I thought you said in a previous post that his car was parked at his GF’s house?
It was. I’m not sure where I contradicted that. I said he may indeed have slept at his friends and picked up his car in the morning from his gf’s