Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YOU need therapy. Obviously your mom does too. Think of yourself as a child going through your parents divorce, because you still are despite being an adult. Any child in your shoes would be seeing a therapist. You are pushing all your feelings on the fact that you have to care for your mother’s emotions. But you have a lot to deal with emotionally yourself.

OP here - I am in therapy.

Okay then... what does your therapist say you should do?

+1

OP here. Are people who have therapists not also allowed to post on DCUM for advice? Since the tone of the PP's comment is that I shouldn't be here with the situation since I'm in therapy....

And to write her a letter, since conversations are always derailed. I did so, and it hasn't been effective thus far.

While I get that people are saying you shouldn't take your mom to your therapist I do think taking your mom to a session or finding a prospective therapist and attending A (as in one) joint session to help you be clear that you can't be her emotional outlet anymore is the way to go. And then your therapist should be able to help you with a script when you mom wants to go on about your dad.

I've been in a similar situation, except with my spouse. It is exhausting. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote: Additionally, since people seem incredibly interested in playing the blame game, there is a part of me that is ALSO angry at my mom. She absolutely did stay when she knew what the situation was for YEARS. And many of them after we were all out of the house. I am frustrated that, the several times my father suggested a divorce, they did not get one, and so we were all subjected to more years of their bad marriage. I know my Dad is the one who is guilty of infidelity. But I'm not naïve enough to think that this situation is entirely one sided. yes, he treated her inexcusably and that got her to the point where she identifies with what happened to her and made her feel like less of a person, but she also allowed the situation to continue and continue. And I do find that incredibly frustrating. My therapist has helped me realize that these feelings towards my mom are valid as well.

DCUM loves to tell adult children they need to take responsibility for their lives, despite any childhood issues with parents. So I also feel its fair to ask my mom to take responsibility for hers, despite everything that happened with my dad.

Again, if there are "sides" to take, I have taken my moms. Im much closer with her, and did cut my dad out for a very long time and still ensure that she is the one who is at all holiday and family gatherings. However, I think people that suggest that her situation is entirely my father's doing are wrong.

I get this having had a mom that also stayed in a bad marriage for way too long. I’m fortunate though that she never stood in the way of us having a relationship with our dad and in fact be encouraged us to form our own relationship with our dad. For your mom I think it’s complicated because I do think the longer you stay, the harder it can be to leave and start all over as the woman.

To answer the question of how to explain to my mom her bitterness is becoming painful you don’t do it directly
1 - With your your mom and maybe the help of your therapist, find out why she is venting and what she wants to accomplish by discussing this with you. Is she looking for you to cut off your dad which you aren’t going to do and maybe needs to be addressed with her directly? Is she looking for acknowledgment that staying in a crappy marriage where she was publicly humiliated allowed you to have a dad around that loved you and said you were strong and capable and supported you in all the ways he may not have done if they divorced in the days before 50/50 custody and protected you from the religious community that would have ostracized her and her kids if she divorced? Is she fine with you having a relationship with the dad and feels acknowledged and it’s her avoiding fear of change by being upset that she has to change?
2 - If part of the issue is your mom feeling helpless, look into how to communicate with someone exhibiting that behavior. I attended a how to deal with difficult people class for my job and remember that there were techniques for this situation. Here is a general article on dealing with difficult people https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-the-questions/201503/20-expert-tactics-dealing-difficult-people. My first point addresses #1,3,5 and 7 in that article. Specifically for someone that complains it’s a combination of listening and understanding the underlying reason, shifting to problem solving where they are an active partner in finding the solution and setting boundaries (look for book by Dr. Rick Kirschner)
3 - The third step is setting/sticking to boundaries. - if you’ve discussed the underlying goal/need, tried to shift the conversation to problem solving where she owns coming up with solutions, then reiterate that she owns her behavior and is she making the decision to continue to discuss x about your dad when you’ve said it is hurtful to you and your relationship with her. The narrative shouldn’t be that “your dad crapped all over me, I stayed to give you Financial and emotional security and was a victim trapped as much as dad and now you are mad when I complain”. It should be about her overriding something that is important to you in favor of her own needs after you’ve said to stop. You have a choice in saying no more and saying I’m not having this conversation and then don’t.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm a bit surprised at some of the responses here that basically ask why I have contact with my Dad. I actually didn't for a while, and let him know I couldn't handle how he had behaved etc. But over time I've come to see some of what his situation was, married way too young, both of my parents in a very religious community so he felt pressure to stay, and years in a marriage where he was never really forgiven and didn't have interests in common with my mom. To be clear, NONE of this absolves my dad of his behavior. He was a shit husband. Both my Dad and my Mom should have protected us from being in between them. To the poster who said I should "blame" my dad, of course no one thinks what he did was okay, right, or even very human.

At the same time, there were ways in which my Dad was a good parent. He encouraged my sister and I to be independent, made us feel valued, intelligent, loved, and talented. He loved us, whether or not he loved my mom, and I'm able to separate that from the relationship between my parents. It took me a two years to forgive him for the divorce and a lot of therapy, but I have. I'll never look at him like I once did - as someone to look up to, and he knows that, but at the same time, I am happy that my kids have a great relationship with their grandpa. He should have been honest, my parents should have divorced in 1990, but he didn't. And at this point, what is done is done in regards to my mom's situation, it may be my dad's fault, but I don't think that her remaining so bitter will be good for her. And in the end, she knew what was happening, and continued to stay, she never wanted to divorce. Again, I'm not BLAMING her, as the point is largely that I'd like to have a relationship with both my parents that doesn't involve their marriage.

Good for you for putting in the effort to appreciate and credit your Dad for his strengths and not just reject him out of hand for his obvious flaws and faults. People are way too quick to encourage people to just throw out their parents like they were human garbage and sever relations. You and your children will benefit over the long run by being able to take the balanced view. I know it's not easy at times.

Some people are human garbage. And, some of them do procreate during their lifetime.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I'm a bit surprised at some of the responses here that basically ask why I have contact with my Dad. I actually didn't for a while, and let him know I couldn't handle how he had behaved etc. But over time I've come to see some of what his situation was, married way too young, both of my parents in a very religious community so he felt pressure to stay, and years in a marriage where he was never really forgiven and didn't have interests in common with my mom. To be clear, NONE of this absolves my dad of his behavior. He was a shit husband. Both my Dad and my Mom should have protected us from being in between them. To the poster who said I should "blame" my dad, of course no one thinks what he did was okay, right, or even very human.

At the same time, there were ways in which my Dad was a good parent. He encouraged my sister and I to be independent, made us feel valued, intelligent, loved, and talented. He loved us, whether or not he loved my mom, and I'm able to separate that from the relationship between my parents. It took me a two years to forgive him for the divorce and a lot of therapy, but I have. I'll never look at him like I once did - as someone to look up to, and he knows that, but at the same time, I am happy that my kids have a great relationship with their grandpa. He should have been honest, my parents should have divorced in 1990, but he didn't. And at this point, what is done is done in regards to my mom's situation, it may be my dad's fault, but I don't think that her remaining so bitter will be good for her. And in the end, she knew what was happening, and continued to stay, she never wanted to divorce. Again, I'm not BLAMING her, as the point is largely that I'd like to have a relationship with both my parents that doesn't involve their marriage.

Good for you for putting in the effort to appreciate and credit your Dad for his strengths and not just reject him out of hand for his obvious flaws and faults. People are way too quick to encourage people to just throw out their parents like they were human garbage and sever relations. You and your children will benefit over the long run by being able to take the balanced view. I know it's not easy at times.

I don't understand why it's so hard for you to tell your mother that you will not listen to her speak about your father and that if she does, you will immediately end the conversation/visit.

It's like you have to have her want to stop talking about your dad or to understand how hard it is for you. That's not necessary. She just needs to stop. The only way you can make her is by ending the conversation/visit when she does it.

I don't know why everyone is even focused on the father and that relationship at all. Yes, the mother is in a horrible place emotionally, but isn't this the board that's all about boundaries, etc? If OP is starting to drown emotionally herself is she supposed to just deal with it? How is that even good for her mom ? There is no healing as long as she stays in that space. Is she supposed to be angry forever? That doesn't hurt the dad. At all. It hurts her and her kids

Can you ask your mom not to mention your dad for some length of time? For example a day, 3 hours, just depends how often she brings it up, you probably can figure it out yourself. Practical exercise of restraint on the subject. Tell her you're tired of talking about it, talking isn't solving any problems, just makes things difficult for you and you need a break.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm so sorry you have had to deal with all this. You sound like a loving daughter doing the best she can. As other's have said, try to set healthy boundaries with your mom. It's not your job to shoulder the burden your dad has given your family. You are enabling your mom to a certain extent. Try to give her what support you can without dragging yourself down. She 100% needs to talk to a therapist, not you.

As the wife of a cheating spouse, (now divorced) I am also heartbroken for you mother. It's not too surprising that she is still having trouble letting go. Your dad is still in her life in a way. I'm sure it's a very bitter pill to swallow to see your dad enjoy all the benefits of a family, like a loving relationship with his grandchildren, despite the pain he caused her and your family.

THIS! IF you can't see this OP, you aren't very human.

My dad pulled this crap on my mom. I kicked him out of our lives for years. When my mom passed, only then did I re-form the relationship. Good thing, the damn drunk needed me by then to bail him out.

OP here. To be clear, my dad does not enjoy all "benefits" of a family, like my mom does. For example holidays. Obviously we do not feel that she should have to see him, so he is not invited to Thanksgiving, Christmas etc. And all of my siblings have let my father know how we feel about his behavior. Several people have posted about father's abandoning their children, my father did not do this. He was a shit husband, and they both failed to protect my siblings and I from the wreckage. I have ALL the sympathy for my mother. I am writing here because I was seeking answers about how to remain close with her without having to relive everything all the time.

If every time a parent cheated the children cut that parent out, it would be ludicrous. My dad's cheated more than once, yes, and we have a surface level relationship now. He knows that. But what I want isn't to cut him out of my life and be bitter towards him for the next 40 years. Thank you for all the people suggesting that as the solution, but it isn't for me.

Additionally, since people seem incredibly interested in playing the blame game, there is a part of me that is ALSO angry at my mom. She absolutely did stay when she knew what the situation was for YEARS. And many of them after we were all out of the house. I am frustrated that, the several times my father suggested a divorce, they did not get one, and so we were all subjected to more years of their bad marriage. I know my Dad is the one who is guilty of infidelity. But I'm not naïve enough to think that this situation is entirely one sided. yes, he treated her inexcusably and that got her to the point where she identifies with what happened to her and made her feel like less of a person, but she also allowed the situation to continue and continue. And I do find that incredibly frustrating. My therapist has helped me realize that these feelings towards my mom are valid as well.

DCUM loves to tell adult children they need to take responsibility for their lives, despite any childhood issues with parents. So I also feel its fair to ask my mom to take responsibility for hers, despite everything that happened with my dad.

Again, if there are "sides" to take, I have taken my moms. Im much closer with her, and did cut my dad out for a very long time and still ensure that she is the one who is at all holiday and family gatherings. However, I think people that suggest that her situation is entirely my father's doing are wrong.

OP, thanks for giving us additional context. Here's something I'm wondering though. You're very dutifully explaining to us all why you feel the way you do in a way that suggests that you're trying to get us to agree with you when you know for sure that some DCUM posters will never agree. Is this something you do with your parents? Forgive me if I'm reading something into this post that isn't there. But I just point it out for the purposes of reminding you that you will have to be short and clear with your mom about not talking about your father anymore and she will get very upset with you. Don't try to convince her you're right. It won't work and she will keep you engaged in the turmoil. Good luck with this! You really deserve some peace!

Op, thanks for coming back and responding. I am a pp who believes you can have good relationships with each of your parents.
You are on your way to a healthy relationship with your mom. You are taking steps and have your mind set about what you want. Positive change takes time, especially with dysfunctional relationships. Hang in there and keep up the good work.

Anonymous wrote:Your mom probably has PTSD from the betrayal.

And, look, OP, let me guess even though you will deny it, because this is a recurring theme with women who refuse to fully cut of Dad even when he is a narcissistic emotionally toxic abuser--he has the money, right?

My dad was a shot husband and cheated a lot. On all his wives. He doesn't have shit but a $79k house. I guess I'm a woman who refused to fullt cut off dad who doesn't fit your mold. My mom wouldn't even want me to. She processed her shit a d moved on and is happy. I am much closer to her. But he was still my dad. There were a lot of good parts mixed in there. Shit, even my parents had good years. People are messy sometimes. Not every thing fits into a nice buzz word box.