Anonymous wrote:I have to say, I'm surprised how many people support OP's position that the grade should be changed because the kid knows the material. I think you all are setting yourselves and your children up for failure. And the ideas of parents stepping in and trying to fix college grades and high school grades is the worst example of helicoptering I have seen in a while.

I am an employer and I just know the people in the workforce that simply cannot follow directions because they think they are smarter than me - they are difficult and don't last long.

My high school senior spent last night reviewing the requirements of each of his November 1 applications for college and making sure he is doing all the things necessary for admission. I'm so glad he knows that the instructions are important, that the students who do what is asked are going to be have their applications ready and available for review before the deadline. And I'm so glad he does this on his own.

He is also a very strong student in challenging classes - I know he follows directions of his teachers even when some are absurd (and of course, over the 13 years of his education, he has done some outright silly assignments).

OP's kid should learn it now, in 6th grade, that these things matter and learn how to do it before it counts.

Because that is how life functions in the real world. Substance is much more important than form. You can always fine tune things later after receiving feed back. No one cares about the color of your border on a report or study, etc. They care about what it says.

Yes she turned her down. She turned her down because she has other students who followed the instructions properly and received the grade their earned without melting down. If she allows the student to re-do the project then she needs to allow all the other students to re-do the project. It is not fair to the kids who followed directions and turned in the proper work at the proper time. Nor is it fair to the other students who did not do the work properly and accepted their poor grades.

There are consequences for not completing your work on time and properly. The OPs child is learning that lesson at the moment. The difference is the OPs kid is in 6th Grade and needs to learn how to sit down and break down assignments so he does not skip or miss steps. The OPs son will hopefully start to develop the necessary skills.

OP: I understand your concerns. If the teacher is not following the IEP/504 that needs to be addressed immediately. My IEP required that the teacher review the directions with me, individually, so that I understood them. I learned to make my list and to check things off the list as I completed them. It took time but things got better as I developed the habit. I fully understand being upset that a teacher is ignoring the IEP/504. That is not acceptable.

But some of the other issues are addressable. You might think drawing a border is silly but if it was a part of the assignment, it was part of the assignment. Complete the assignment. I also see a value to partial credit for properly translating even if they were in the wrong place. I would expect some credit but probably not enough to pass the assignment.

Here is the thing, grades in 6th grade are not on a permanent record so this is all good learning material. Sit down with your son and ask him how he could prevent such mistakes again. Use these as opportunities to develop tactics that will help him avoid similar mistakes.

I was the kid with dyscalculia and dysgraphia so math sucked for me. I flunked because I could not get the correct answer. How the hell do you get the correct answer when the numbers move and flip on you? In 9th grade I had a teacher who actually took the time to go through my problems and see where numbers had been reversed. She discovered that I understood the concepts and was doing the math properly except that the numbers were flipped, reserved, transposed. She did not give me full credit but my traditional D in math went to a B. I understood the concepts and the process. She did this when she was confused that I was coming in for help and working hard and somehow was flunking. It didn't fit the pattern. I was retested, my LD's were magically rediscovered, my IEP reinstated (long story), and I went from being a D student to an A student with the addition of resource support and an IEP.

IEPs have to be followed and teachers who know that a child is struggling with LDs or ADHD or whatever can stand to be a bit more compassionate and take a few extra steps in grading their work. If there is something going on that is associated with the known issue, it should be addressed.

So please work with the school to make sure your sons IEP is followed but also work with your son to help him develop skills he needs to not be the college kid who did the wrong project.

I’m shocked at the middle school parents who think teachers who expect students to follow the directions are “nitpicky,” but I’m even more shocked at the people who think the college professor should have caved! This is ridiculous! Please teach your children that (1) a bad grade isn’t the end of the world and (2) they should read the directions more closely next time.

I have to say, I'm surprised how many people support OP's position that the grade should be changed because the kid knows the material. I think you all are setting yourselves and your children up for failure. And the ideas of parents stepping in and trying to fix college grades and high school grades is the worst example of helicoptering I have seen in a while.

I am an employer and I just know the people in the workforce that simply cannot follow directions because they think they are smarter than me - they are difficult and don't last long.

My high school senior spent last night reviewing the requirements of each of his November 1 applications for college and making sure he is doing all the things necessary for admission. I'm so glad he knows that the instructions are important, that the students who do what is asked are going to be have their applications ready and available for review before the deadline. And I'm so glad he does this on his own.

He is also a very strong student in challenging classes - I know he follows directions of his teachers even when some are absurd (and of course, over the 13 years of his education, he has done some outright silly assignments).

OP's kid should learn it now, in 6th grade, that these things matter and learn how to do it before it counts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

Wait. Her MOM called you? Is this a thing now? I am floored that parents now think it is OK to call their child's university professors to plead for special favors (or for any reason). I would have been absolutely mortified if my parents had done this.

NP. This is off topic to this thread but since you ask, the answer is that parents feel emboldened to do this because colleges have turned parents into consumers with power. They charge such ridiculous prices for tuition and fees now. My alma mater costs 75k a year including room and board. It was under 35k when I attended 20 years ago. There is no way on earth it is truly "worth" 75k except that there are some people (about 1200 families per year) who can afford it.

When my kids are old enough to attend, it'll probably be close to 100k. You better believe I will be PISSED if I hand over 400k to a school to educate my kid and a professor pulls a stunt like the one above.

Don't charge astronomical prices and you'll get more reasonable responses. The more you charge, the more you empower people as consumers who can EASILY go elsewhere and take their money with them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

This story is horrible. Makes you sound awful and sadistic.

Yeah, you don't come off here well at all, college instructor!

What?! NP here. I can't believe you are advocating for changing a grade in response to a COLLEGE STUDENT who melts down when she makes a mistake.

Are you all unfamiliar with assignments? Rubrics? What planet am I living on??

This poster has given you a perfect example, wrapped in a bow, of why children should learn that details matter. Gah!

No I don't think the grade should be changed. But the college student asked to write another paper, on the correct topic this time, for partial credit and she turned her down.

I don't think she should get an A for the rewrite but maybe a C or a B which is better than a low F.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

Wait. Her MOM called you? Is this a thing now? I am floored that parents now think it is OK to call their child's university professors to plead for special favors (or for any reason). I would have been absolutely mortified if my parents had done this.

The number of times parents called and made appointments to discuss their kids grades is far, far greater then most people know. And the argument that you paid for college so you deserve to discuss your child's grades will never fly. Your child is an adult and my student. I am not allowed to discuss his/her grades or progress in class. And the student never agreed to release information to their parents, mainly because the student knew that I took attendance, even though I didn't count it in their grade, and that I had the grade book for all the assignments that they missed. And I still had the assignments that they failed and never picked up. It was far easier for the child to tell the parent that they failed because I was a bitch and an awful Professor, trust me I heard that more then once, and not because they didn't attend class or do the assigned work. I had one student who sat in on a meeting with her parents and authorized the conversation. The meeting did not end in her favor.

And this was 20 years ago. I can only imagine that it has gotten worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

This story is horrible. Makes you sound awful and sadistic.

Yeah, you don't come off here well at all, college instructor!

I think the college professor sounds fine. She isn't teaching kindergarten.

+1

I had a student whose parents requested meetings with the Department Chair to argue a grade that I had given to the student. The student did not complete the assignment. I distributed all the assignments in the syllabus and then as a separate piece of paper on the day the project was assigned. The sheets listed, in bulleted form what font to use, what size font to use, margins, page length, number of citations and what was an acceptable citation (ie not a random blog site but a book or article that can found in the college library), and the specific assignment. The student had turned in a paper with 2 inch margins, 14 point font, no citations and did not address the questions posed.

The students F stood. And by an F I think it was 20 points out of 100 because she had summarized the two arguments that she was suppose to compare and contrast and then argue which side she thought was correct.

Students sometimes do not follow the instructions that are distributed. If I had noticed a large number of students had done the same thing, I would review the assignment and might make some changes to my rubric. The reality is that I had to do that one time in the 10 years I taught. My teaching mentors all encouraged me to include all of the assignments in the syllabus so that students had them from day one and to pass them out again when they were actually assigned. We reviewed all assignment requirements in class when I distributed them.

I never enjoyed students who were upset by their grades and who wanted their grade to be changed or the opportunity to improve their grade. The reality is if I do that for one student, I have to do it for every student. And I know that I was very clear with what was required. I always listed good days to turn in rough drafts if students wanted me to review their work. I listed the address and phone number for the writing center and encouraged students to work with the folks there. It is a free service and really helps students learn to write better.

I was the Freshman who freaked out about a grade and ended up apologizing to my Professor for my awful response and behavior, similar to the student in the story but earlier in the semester. We had a good talk about how to avoid similar mistakes and how I could recover from the assignment. I learned a lot from that exchange. But you need to learn to complete the assignment. As a student/adult with ADHD I have had my struggles. I learned how to handle those problems but it was not an easy process. Which is why I always passed out assignments in a step by step fashion AND I encouraged my students to cross off the sub questions in an essay as they answered them.

The college student is a perfect example. And, TBH, even MS I’d rather late to learn this lesson. I’m certain this year isn’t the first time that OP’s son has messed up on the details, but she’s defended him because he’s so smart and showed he learned something. She has six years to do a course correction before he’s melting down in a professor’s office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

This story is horrible. Makes you sound awful and sadistic.

Yeah, you don't come off here well at all, college instructor!

What?! NP here. I can't believe you are advocating for changing a grade in response to a COLLEGE STUDENT who melts down when she makes a mistake.

Are you all unfamiliar with assignments? Rubrics? What planet am I living on??

This poster has given you a perfect example, wrapped in a bow, of why children should learn that details matter. Gah!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

This story is horrible. Makes you sound awful and sadistic.

Yeah, you don't come off here well at all, college instructor!

I think the college professor sounds fine. She isn't teaching kindergarten.

Agreed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

This story is horrible. Makes you sound awful and sadistic.

Yeah, you don't come off here well at all, college instructor!

I think the college professor sounds fine. She isn't teaching kindergarten.

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

Wait. Her MOM called you? Is this a thing now? I am floored that parents now think it is OK to call their child's university professors to plead for special favors (or for any reason). I would have been absolutely mortified if my parents had done this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Better to learn to follow directions now.

I teach college and last year I had a student hand in an essay that completely missed the purpose of the assignments. She was a great student, had been doing very well in the course, was a lovely person but for whatever reason she just went completely off base on her final term paper. She wrote a great paper and obviously put a lot of work into it but it wasn't the paper that was assigned.

I graded using a rubric and there were parts of the rubric that I couldn't even apply to her paper. I gave her marks where I could and her final mark was around 40%.

She contacted me immediately asking to meet. She came to my office and she looked like she had been through something awful. She told me she couldn't sleep or eat, that she had never failed anything and she didn't know how to cope with this. She started sobbing in my office and it was a bit heart wrenching. I could see that she really didn't know how to cope with this. She pleaded and pleaded to let her rewrite it or to grade it differently or do a bonus assignment or anything because she couldn't accept a failing grade. I said no to all and she was honestly almost traumatized. I really think this was the most difficult thing that she had gone through (as a high achiever). I had to get her support from a friend to leave my office. Her mom called me a couple days later pleading with me to do something as her daughter was not coping well and this had impacted her mental health.

I met twice more with the student helping her to learn to cope and build resilience and never changed her mark. That would have been the easy out for me and made her happy but this was a life lesson she needed to learn and it was what was fair. She never fully understood. She did pull herself back together and did fine in my class (above the class average but lower than her usual marks). It would have been much much better for her to learn this when she was younger.

This story is horrible. Makes you sound awful and sadistic.

Yeah, you don't come off here well at all, college instructor!

Anonymous wrote:Having coloring be part of the grade at any level (unless it’s an art class) is problematic.—Teacher

Another teacher. We have students color code for several different types of learning activities and assessments. It’s also a proven destresser.