Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is my worst fear about my son. And of course that makes my white privilege more obvious because my worst fear doesn’t have to be that he will be killed by a cop in an ordinary traffic stop or a wellness check.

I am doing my dammdest to be actively anti-racist right now, with the books we read and the stories we center and the discussions we have.

But my husband is a racist. Maybe he always was and I chose not to notice the signs. But in the past 6 years, it has gotten overt. He started listening to all these poisoning podcasts...Joe Rohan led to Jordan Peterson and virulent anti-feminism, then down a rabbit hole that has led to full on MAGA shit. In front of our child, he will not use the n-word, as he doesn’t want me to leave him, but he comes close and his white-guy victimhood is matched only by his growing rage against women and brown people.

We live in entirely different universes of information. Entirely different. I would never, ever be friends with him if we were not raising children together. I can’t leave him to 50/50 custody and the virulent racism without me at least having some kind of cap on it. Right now, my children adore me and see me as a hero and a role model. But what if adolescence hits and all of a sudden my son chases after his emotionally remote father’s approval by alighting with his “white pride”? Or since his dad is such a jerk, he seeks approval and identity by aligning with these alt-right monsters?


It’s stunning to me how quickly and virulently all of this racism has bubbled up in just a few years...I guess I was oblivious to it being there all along, but it is terrifying to me how open and contagious it is now.

You can not allow your child to be exposed to this. You may think that you are helping with countering your husband by staying in the marriage. However, the message to your son will be "My dad can't be all that bad because my mom is married to him"

I hear you. I don’t want to implicitly endorse these values. But you say, “You can not allow your child to be exposed to this.” I have no good option. The choice is only how I can mitigate the damage. Right now, living in the home, my DH is not overt about any of it. If I left him, he would see it as an open declaration of war and be free to openly and loudly promote everything that is the opposite of where I stand. And he would have 50% custody. I feel like there is no good option. I hate staying. Hate it. But how can I leave him alone half the time, unfettered and antagonized and hostile? I think if I were you, I could confidently assert that I should leave. But being on the inside of this trap, every step feels so dangerous and fraught.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The white fragility on here is really something. We white people have an important duty here to dismantle white supremacy. Our children get countless white role models. Don't be worried about that. It's important to let them see POC as leaders and contributors to this society too, instead of continually casting them as criminals, the help, or athletes.

My white family has been in America for a long time also, since before it was a country. We celebrate the good things about American history and culture and I educate them on the bad things also. We are proud of the good things, we are NOT proud of being white. Being white is NOT being American.

It’s ok to be white.

Sure, but being white itself isn't really something to be "proud" of. I'm proud of my family's history of working hard and building communities (farmers & local community leaders), but I'm not proud that they overlooked the abuses of others. A few ancestors were Quakers though - I'm super proud of them for standing up for others centuries ago.

NP - white family also here for a long time.

Hello Steve Bannon

Of course, but "it's ok to be white" is the PERFECT alt-right troll and entree into recruitment. Because remember we're talking about children and adolescents, not 40-year old former critical race theory majors. A white boy who constantly hears about "girls rule" and "black pride" and "white privilege" and "white supremacy" absolutely will think "oh yeah, why isn't is ok to be white?"

This seems pretty clearly true to me. Women are expressly encouraged to help other women advance simply because they are women. So too with all sorts of other racial and gender affinity groups. Indeed those groups are also encouraged to help out the others, and for the same reasons. White males are often expressly told to step back. It’s perfectly rational for white males to band together to advance their common interests in this kind of environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The white fragility on here is really something. We white people have an important duty here to dismantle white supremacy. Our children get countless white role models. Don't be worried about that. It's important to let them see POC as leaders and contributors to this society too, instead of continually casting them as criminals, the help, or athletes.

My white family has been in America for a long time also, since before it was a country. We celebrate the good things about American history and culture and I educate them on the bad things also. We are proud of the good things, we are NOT proud of being white. Being white is NOT being American.

It’s ok to be white.

Sure, but being white itself isn't really something to be "proud" of. I'm proud of my family's history of working hard and building communities (farmers & local community leaders), but I'm not proud that they overlooked the abuses of others. A few ancestors were Quakers though - I'm super proud of them for standing up for others centuries ago.

NP - white family also here for a long time.

Of course, but "it's ok to be white" is the PERFECT alt-right troll and entree into recruitment. Because remember we're talking about children and adolescents, not 40-year old former critical race theory majors. A white boy who constantly hears about "girls rule" and "black pride" and "white privilege" and "white supremacy" absolutely will think "oh yeah, why isn't is ok to be white?"

Anonymous wrote:Anyone read this essay from the NYTimes Magazine? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/opinion/sunday/white-supremacist-recruitment.html

I thought it was very thought-provoking. My son is only 7, but for me one of the key lines is this: "Parents of white kids need to talk about race and racism and how they’ve played out in this country — a lot. That history includes horrors and tragedies, but as Dr. Tochluk says, it also “includes the fact that there have always been groups of white people in the United States who have fought for freedom and liberty for all.”"

I've gotten really heated responses from my very liberal friends online when I say this, but now that whiteness has been reified, white kids (esp boys) have to be given positive models of whiteness. There's no way whiteness can be just "bad" in popular culture, and not expect that adolescent boys won't object to that. 12-13-14 is too young to fully understand ideas like white privilege, in my opinion. Sometimes I also think that the discourse on "white supremacy" as an abstract almost supernatural, ahistorical force is also ultimately very counter-productive.

Anonymous wrote:In sum: white guilt is bad, white pride is bad, don't feel bad about being white, don't feel good about being white.

Understand and embrace these ideas as a child so that as an adult you will be an ally without being an ally, a feminist without being a feminist, and a good American without being ... white.

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Anonymous wrote:There has been a concerted effort on the progressive left to make people aware that to be colorblind is an effect of privilege, and to educate kids (and adults) to be aware of their own whiteness.

Why then does it come as a shock that this new awareness of whiteness is going to lead some people to place value on their whiteness? This was a foreseeably disastrous outcome.

THis is what we call backlash---and we are not going to coddle people who can't handle that they are no longer the center of the universe

This

Ten year old white boys are not angry that they are no longer the center of the universe, because they never were.

They might be angry for other reasons though.

No, but pre-teen and teen boys are resentful and angry that they aren't growing up in the world of white privilege that their fathers and older brothers had. They want to be in a world that was paved for white males and everyone else had to work twice as hard to get half as much. They see that they have lost a significant amount of the privilege and ease that earlier generations of white males had and they want to go back. And they are willing to be violent and destructive to try to get it back.

I think this is kind of ridiculous. In what ways, specifically, are 12 year old boys seeing that things were “paved for white males” for their dads & not for them?? And isn’t the idea of privilege that you don’t really even notice when you have it unless someone points it out?
White supremacists are an insidious group... but can people really not see that extreme left views are driving their appeal to young people? It’s not because white boys think they are better than everyone else (not initially). It’s in part because of the far left saying it’s bad to be a white male. You should feel guilty for being white. It’s okay to be proud of your race— unless you are white. It’s okay to have opinions on race— unless you are white, then you are told to “stay in your lane.” All of this constant focus on race and labeling people leads to bad things. No one (of any race) is superior to anyone else based on race. Race is a social construct. Yes, teach the history of racism in this county and don’t gloss over the facts. But then emphasize that we are all equal and stop telling people to feel bad about their race— whatever it is.

OMG just stop. Making people aware of the many ways our culture devalues people of color based on race DOES NOT MEAN that you should feel guilty for being white! You are literally parroting the insidious white supremacy talking points - people want you to feel bad about being white, this conversation is pushed by the far left, the constant focus on race is causing bad things.

Textbook white supremacist talking points right here, folks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has been a concerted effort on the progressive left to make people aware that to be colorblind is an effect of privilege, and to educate kids (and adults) to be aware of their own whiteness.

Why then does it come as a shock that this new awareness of whiteness is going to lead some people to place value on their whiteness? This was a foreseeably disastrous outcome.

THis is what we call backlash---and we are not going to coddle people who can't handle that they are no longer the center of the universe

This

Ten year old white boys are not angry that they are no longer the center of the universe, because they never were.

They might be angry for other reasons though.

No, but pre-teen and teen boys are resentful and angry that they aren't growing up in the world of white privilege that their fathers and older brothers had. They want to be in a world that was paved for white males and everyone else had to work twice as hard to get half as much. They see that they have lost a significant amount of the privilege and ease that earlier generations of white males had and they want to go back. And they are willing to be violent and destructive to try to get it back.

I think this is kind of ridiculous. In what ways, specifically, are 12 year old boys seeing that things were “paved for white males” for their dads & not for them?? And isn’t the idea of privilege that you don’t really even notice when you have it unless someone points it out?
White supremacists are an insidious group... but can people really not see that extreme left views are driving their appeal to young people? It’s not because white boys think they are better than everyone else (not initially). It’s in part because of the far left saying it’s bad to be a white male. You should feel guilty for being white. It’s okay to be proud of your race— unless you are white. It’s okay to have opinions on race— unless you are white, then you are told to “stay in your lane.” All of this constant focus on race and labeling people leads to bad things. No one (of any race) is superior to anyone else based on race. Race is a social construct. Yes, teach the history of racism in this county and don’t gloss over the facts. But then emphasize that we are all equal and stop telling people to feel bad about their race— whatever it is.