Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach science in college and have received teaching awards. I had to help a friend's child last year for his science class. I was disappointed in TJ's teaching quality. The kid is super smart and hard working. He is probably the top 5% in TJ. However he basically got nothing from class. In addition, the quiz/exam was unrealistic hard. I honestly cannot see anyone could pass the class without significant outside tutoring help. I was told many students dropped after the first exam. This is not a problem with the students, but the teachers. I heard not all teachers in TJ are like this but it is common. High expectation is not the same as just throw things at students. Teachers make a big difference in student's life. Guess what is this student's perception in this subject now? We are losing a bright student in this STEM field. This is sad. Based on this experience, I will think twice before send my own kid to TJ.

And they didn’t lose a bright student. Check with him in June. They had a kid who took too high and level and was returned to the right level. I expect he got a decent grade in honors without tutoring and a strong grounding in physics. The issue is they need to stop letting kids without the background try and then actively weeding.

It is indeed Physics. This kid got A at the end and scored 5 in AP Physics C. He said the AP test was not bad. But he does not like Physics and just glad it was over. Obviously he won't be pursuing anything in Physics, although I see a tremendous talent. That is what I meant by losing a bright student in the STEM field.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach science in college and have received teaching awards. I had to help a friend's child last year for his science class. I was disappointed in TJ's teaching quality. The kid is super smart and hard working. He is probably the top 5% in TJ. However he basically got nothing from class. In addition, the quiz/exam was unrealistic hard. I honestly cannot see anyone could pass the class without significant outside tutoring help. I was told many students dropped after the first exam. This is not a problem with the students, but the teachers. I heard not all teachers in TJ are like this but it is common. High expectation is not the same as just throw things at students. Teachers make a big difference in student's life. Guess what is this student's perception in this subject now? We are losing a bright student in this STEM field. This is sad. Based on this experience, I will think twice before send my own kid to TJ.

And they didn’t lose a bright student. Check with him in June. They had a kid who took too high and level and was returned to the right level. I expect he got a decent grade in honors without tutoring and a strong grounding in physics. The issue is they need to stop letting kids without the background try and then actively weeding.

Anonymous wrote:We’re in a MS that sent dozens to TJ last year. The adm didn’t provide much support to kids aspiring to go to TJ, other than mentioning TJ application in an email and having TJ staff coming to school once talking to kids and parents. The principal and math teachers discourage kids taking summer geometry but a few still did. STEM clubs were mostly run by parents. In fact the MS never sent more than 10 kids every year before it became a AAP center last year. Bottom line is that MS doesn’t play a role as important as the student body does in terms of TJ application and acceptance.

Anonymous wrote:I teach science in college and have received teaching awards. I had to help a friend's child last year for his science class. I was disappointed in TJ's teaching quality. The kid is super smart and hard working. He is probably the top 5% in TJ. However he basically got nothing from class. In addition, the quiz/exam was unrealistic hard. I honestly cannot see anyone could pass the class without significant outside tutoring help. I was told many students dropped after the first exam. This is not a problem with the students, but the teachers. I heard not all teachers in TJ are like this but it is common. High expectation is not the same as just throw things at students. Teachers make a big difference in student's life. Guess what is this student's perception in this subject now? We are losing a bright student in this STEM field. This is sad. Based on this experience, I will think twice before send my own kid to TJ.

Anonymous wrote:I teach science in college and have received teaching awards. I had to help a friend's child last year for his science class. I was disappointed in TJ's teaching quality. The kid is super smart and hard working. He is probably the top 5% in TJ. However he basically got nothing from class. In addition, the quiz/exam was unrealistic hard. I honestly cannot see anyone could pass the class without significant outside tutoring help. I was told many students dropped after the first exam. This is not a problem with the students, but the teachers. I heard not all teachers in TJ are like this but it is common. High expectation is not the same as just throw things at students. Teachers make a big difference in student's life. Guess what is this student's perception in this subject now? We are losing a bright student in this STEM field. This is sad. Based on this experience, I will think twice before send my own kid to TJ.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pat Hynes
@VotePatHynes
·
Mar 20
Does sound like TJ. DiBlasio’s proposed solution for NY is to admit the top students from every middle school - geographic equality as a stand-in for equity. Might work. Look at SF’s experience with Lowell HS - geography-plus. FCPS will begin TJ reform plan this year.
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Has anyone been following this?

No, but this is a terrible idea. It came up a few years ago and a bunch of parents said outright that they'll simply rent in less-desirable school middle school boundaries to increase their kids' chances if FCPS goes this route. FCPS is loathe to admit it, but they're well-aware that the county has a vested interest in not losing the TJ and AAP parents. I think they'll talk a big game but never follow through.

Sounds great!

I'm all for this plan!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting because I've taught in middle schools in FCPS in three different schools. I worked in a middle class, non-TJ feeder school for 7 years (think Robinson, Fairfax, Lake Braddock or West Springfield). I enjoyed working there, taught math and the kids were bright and hard-working. A few were interested in TJ but there really wasn't much support from teachers, guidance or admin. beyond doing the bare minimum. I had zero guidance on filling out recommendations, what TJ is looking for and we basically said "good luck" with only a few kids getting in. (It's still the case for these schools).

I then went to teach at a Title I middle school. The kids had other struggles beyond only math. I spent way more time teaching the language of math, teaching and reinforcing concepts. I did have some students who were advanced and a few pursued TJ. Very rarely we had more than a handful of kids who attended. Like my previous school, there was very little support to mentor kids, write recommendations, or even pay attention to the TJ deadlines. The few kids who made it in really had to manage and advocate to get through the process.

I now teach in a major TJ feeder (home with a sick kid today). And it is like working in a completely different school system. We attend multiple meetings with admins and other teachers to discuss, coordinate and manage the TJ application process. TJ counselors and admins provide us guidance on best practices. Our teaching is accelerated as a matter of course (and sadly, our ESOL and SPED students struggle and really get the short end of the stick unless they have parents who are aggressively managing IEPs and 504's and ESOL support). It is night and day.

So, in some ways, I think spreading TJ spots to the middle school level would address some of the inequity that is sort of baked in the cake in FCPS. I look at my first school, where there were as many kids in Alg. 1 in 7th as my current school and see that there is such a different approach to TJ. Getting a more uniform approach probably would address things, but absent there being a sense of demand, schools are site run and they really do focus on the issues that impact as many kids as possible. For the rare TJ applicant, they don't get the support that they would if they went to my current school. Even though all of the schools are in FCPS.

This is very true. My friend lives in a major TJ feeder zone and we're in a Title 1 zone. We often compared notes and it was like night and day. Her child was in gen ED in elementary and mine were in AAP yet they received similar education. Our MS was like your Title 1 - no real focus on anybody interested in TJ. I couldn't find any information on TJ on the school website until I looked in a dark corner covered in cobwebs. There was a PDF and first sentences were something like, "TJ is a very difficult school to get into. Admissions are very competitive" - as if to say, "Don't bother! You don't have a chance!"

When I asked the administration about TJ, they said that they most kids want to stay at the base and not many are interested in going. We opted for the AAP center MS and it was better there.

Since then school websites have been standardized and now offer similar information on TJ so at least that's a step in the right direction, but that hasn't moved the needle at all given the minute acceptance rate at that school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have some time at hand so i’ll share something I heard from my TJ DC. Recently a teacher asked why they came to TJ. Of a class of about 30 kids only two said the only reason they were at TJ was their parents made them. The rest of the class listed other reasons. Presumably some might not be 100 percent honest I still find this interesting and contrary to many believed, that going to TJ is solely plotted and pushed by parents.

I think you are a bit literal. Presumably even kids who have been pushed and prodded understand that it is better to suggest they exercise some agency.

And you know that how? Most of them are there because they want to be. I know enough TJ kids to know this. The kids that don't want to be there either sabotge their tests or drop out after Freshman year.

Most people here correlate test prep with TJ admissions. But correlation is not causation. Not every prepped kid gets in. We'd need 20 TJs to accommodate that! The ones that do get in ARE really good and likely would have gotten in with minimal prep - a few months of classes to fill in the gaps between what the TJ test expects vs what their schools covered, exposure to the types of questions on the test, etc.

I think there are several factors keeping the non-asians away
- The rigor of TJ - This scares Parents as well as students
- Lack of awareness
- The commitment/sacrifices that the kid and parents have to make
- Not fitting in. I suspect most locals do not want to go to a place that's mostly Asian.

As a white TJ parent, they are missing out. Yep. My kid is a minority. Since he’s a white male, I’m glad. Most white men never stop and think about what it’s like not to be in the majority. I think it’s an important experience to have. I am not really interesting in my kid becoming Mr. White Male Privilege.

But here the thing. The kids are all more alike than different. Yes, it’s 70% Asian. But “Asian” is not a monolith. Chinese, Different areas of India, Korean, etc. etc. Many different religions. Many different cultures. This is a big reason I raise my kids in the DMV. So that they can be exposed to different languages, food, cultures, ways of doing things, religions. It’s a global world out there. You can sit there and pretend you can always live and work in a white enclave. Or you can learn to work with other people and how to operate in a world where people have different points of view. . You might even discover that going to iNite or a lunar New Years celebration makes your life richer.

And almost all the kids are Americanized. It’s not the Asian kids over here and the white kids over there. It’s a mixed HoCo group. Everyone on the volleyball team together. A mixed student council. They all do the robot project. They all survive Math 4. They all do the iBet project. They all work their tails off.

Speaking of work their tails off. It’s an incredibly wholesome group of kids whose parents are very involved and know what their kids are up to. They spend a lot of time studying. They spend a lot of time at ECs, many like music and sports, aren’t even academic. They spend too much time on YouTube. They’re is very little alcohol use. Almost no drug use. Nobody’s vaping pot in the bathroom. The kids have good life goals. My kid could do much worse in terms of peers.

Well said and agree-another TJ parent.

So self-congratulatory and so self-indulgent.

The parents turn a blind eye to the rampant cheating, depression, and Adderall abuse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have some time at hand so i’ll share something I heard from my TJ DC. Recently a teacher asked why they came to TJ. Of a class of about 30 kids only two said the only reason they were at TJ was their parents made them. The rest of the class listed other reasons. Presumably some might not be 100 percent honest I still find this interesting and contrary to many believed, that going to TJ is solely plotted and pushed by parents.

I think you are a bit literal. Presumably even kids who have been pushed and prodded understand that it is better to suggest they exercise some agency.

And you know that how? Most of them are there because they want to be. I know enough TJ kids to know this. The kids that don't want to be there either sabotge their tests or drop out after Freshman year.

Most people here correlate test prep with TJ admissions. But correlation is not causation. Not every prepped kid gets in. We'd need 20 TJs to accommodate that! The ones that do get in ARE really good and likely would have gotten in with minimal prep - a few months of classes to fill in the gaps between what the TJ test expects vs what their schools covered, exposure to the types of questions on the test, etc.

I think there are several factors keeping the non-asians away
- The rigor of TJ - This scares Parents as well as students
- Lack of awareness
- The commitment/sacrifices that the kid and parents have to make
- Not fitting in. I suspect most locals do not want to go to a place that's mostly Asian.

As a white TJ parent, they are missing out. Yep. My kid is a minority. Since he’s a white male, I’m glad. Most white men never stop and think about what it’s like not to be in the majority. I think it’s an important experience to have. I am not really interesting in my kid becoming Mr. White Male Privilege.

But here the thing. The kids are all more alike than different. Yes, it’s 70% Asian. But “Asian” is not a monolith. Chinese, Different areas of India, Korean, etc. etc. Many different religions. Many different cultures. This is a big reason I raise my kids in the DMV. So that they can be exposed to different languages, food, cultures, ways of doing things, religions. It’s a global world out there. You can sit there and pretend you can always live and work in a white enclave. Or you can learn to work with other people and how to operate in a world where people have different points of view. . You might even discover that going to iNite or a lunar New Years celebration makes your life richer.

And almost all the kids are Americanized. It’s not the Asian kids over here and the white kids over there. It’s a mixed HoCo group. Everyone on the volleyball team together. A mixed student council. They all do the robot project. They all survive Math 4. They all do the iBet project. They all work their tails off.

Speaking of work their tails off. It’s an incredibly wholesome group of kids whose parents are very involved and know what their kids are up to. They spend a lot of time studying. They spend a lot of time at ECs, many like music and sports, aren’t even academic. They spend too much time on YouTube. They’re is very little alcohol use. Almost no drug use. Nobody’s vaping pot in the bathroom. The kids have good life goals. My kid could do much worse in terms of peers.

Well said and agree-another TJ parent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have some time at hand so i’ll share something I heard from my TJ DC. Recently a teacher asked why they came to TJ. Of a class of about 30 kids only two said the only reason they were at TJ was their parents made them. The rest of the class listed other reasons. Presumably some might not be 100 percent honest I still find this interesting and contrary to many believed, that going to TJ is solely plotted and pushed by parents.

I think you are a bit literal. Presumably even kids who have been pushed and prodded understand that it is better to suggest they exercise some agency.

And you know that how? Most of them are there because they want to be. I know enough TJ kids to know this. The kids that don't want to be there either sabotge their tests or drop out after Freshman year.

Most people here correlate test prep with TJ admissions. But correlation is not causation. Not every prepped kid gets in. We'd need 20 TJs to accommodate that! The ones that do get in ARE really good and likely would have gotten in with minimal prep - a few months of classes to fill in the gaps between what the TJ test expects vs what their schools covered, exposure to the types of questions on the test, etc.

I think there are several factors keeping the non-asians away
- The rigor of TJ - This scares Parents as well as students
- Lack of awareness
- The commitment/sacrifices that the kid and parents have to make
- Not fitting in. I suspect most locals do not want to go to a place that's mostly Asian.

As a white TJ parent, they are missing out. Yep. My kid is a minority. Since he’s a white male, I’m glad. Most white men never stop and think about what it’s like not to be in the majority. I think it’s an important experience to have. I am not really interesting in my kid becoming Mr. White Male Privilege.

But here the thing. The kids are all more alike than different. Yes, it’s 70% Asian. But “Asian” is not a monolith. Chinese, Different areas of India, Korean, etc. etc. Many different religions. Many different cultures. This is a big reason I raise my kids in the DMV. So that they can be exposed to different languages, food, cultures, ways of doing things, religions. It’s a global world out there. You can sit there and pretend you can always live and work in a white enclave. Or you can learn to work with other people and how to operate in a world where people have different points of view. . You might even discover that going to iNite or a lunar New Years celebration makes your life richer.

And almost all the kids are Americanized. It’s not the Asian kids over here and the white kids over there. It’s a mixed HoCo group. Everyone on the volleyball team together. A mixed student council. They all do the robot project. They all survive Math 4. They all do the iBet project. They all work their tails off.

Speaking of work their tails off. It’s an incredibly wholesome group of kids whose parents are very involved and know what their kids are up to. They spend a lot of time studying. They spend a lot of time at ECs, many like music and sports, aren’t even academic. They spend too much time on YouTube. They’re is very little alcohol use. Almost no drug use. Nobody’s vaping pot in the bathroom. The kids have good life goals. My kid could do much worse in terms of peers.

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting because I've taught in middle schools in FCPS in three different schools. I worked in a middle class, non-TJ feeder school for 7 years (think Robinson, Fairfax, Lake Braddock or West Springfield). I enjoyed working there, taught math and the kids were bright and hard-working. A few were interested in TJ but there really wasn't much support from teachers, guidance or admin. beyond doing the bare minimum. I had zero guidance on filling out recommendations, what TJ is looking for and we basically said "good luck" with only a few kids getting in. (It's still the case for these schools).

I then went to teach at a Title I middle school. The kids had other struggles beyond only math. I spent way more time teaching the language of math, teaching and reinforcing concepts. I did have some students who were advanced and a few pursued TJ. Very rarely we had more than a handful of kids who attended. Like my previous school, there was very little support to mentor kids, write recommendations, or even pay attention to the TJ deadlines. The few kids who made it in really had to manage and advocate to get through the process.

I now teach in a major TJ feeder (home with a sick kid today). And it is like working in a completely different school system. We attend multiple meetings with admins and other teachers to discuss, coordinate and manage the TJ application process. TJ counselors and admins provide us guidance on best practices. Our teaching is accelerated as a matter of course (and sadly, our ESOL and SPED students struggle and really get the short end of the stick unless they have parents who are aggressively managing IEPs and 504's and ESOL support). It is night and day.

So, in some ways, I think spreading TJ spots to the middle school level would address some of the inequity that is sort of baked in the cake in FCPS. I look at my first school, where there were as many kids in Alg. 1 in 7th as my current school and see that there is such a different approach to TJ. Getting a more uniform approach probably would address things, but absent there being a sense of demand, schools are site run and they really do focus on the issues that impact as many kids as possible. For the rare TJ applicant, they don't get the support that they would if they went to my current school. Even though all of the schools are in FCPS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1

No summer homework, even for AP classes, is the first tangible welcome result of CS at TJ. Also, there was some change to tests allowed during first week of school - don't recall the specifics but my DS thought it was a welcome change. Give the administration a chance.

Yep. I heard from a parent one of the math classes did give a first week test on “optional summer enrichment” . The kids went to the principal and it was nullified.

And they— thank you God- have made progress standardizing math and physics. All teachers use the same syllabus and test through AP. They now give out different forms of the test and let kids sign up for tutoring from a different math tutor than their own during 8th period. And they are reviewing the results of testing as a department and curving test or throwing out bad questions. I’m sorry, but if the average grade on comics is 60 at TJ, either the teaching is inadequate or the test is ridiculous. This is not a group of slackers. Before, a lot of them were doing their own thing and their own pace at their own rigor. They each used one test, and by 6th period, half the class had all the answers and aced it. This is huge. It’s not glamorous. But it cuts down on cheating and makes the expectations clear.

I have seen less homework this year. But I have a senior, and that’s to be expected during application season. And for seniors, period. I have heard they have better spacing of projects in freshman year. So the IBET project and Romeo and Juliet and the robot don’t all due the same week.

Last year was the first time my kid didn’t have a project or test or lab report due over “homework free” Thanksgiving, spring break and winter break. As in, it was enforced.

These are all positives in my book. Not a fan of the principal in other areas. She needs to fight for things like freshman lock-in and HackTJ to stay. She has added some dumb rules that are CYA but address non-existent problems.

But I’m not writing Challenge Success off. Because some of things that make TJ kids miserable, like getting the math teacher who can’t teach and decides to give multvariable tests to an AB class and accepts a 50 average— aren’t things that help kids learn. If anything, they hurt. And summer homework. 90% of the students are in summer school, a summer pre-college class, a summer academic camp,do summer reach or something similar. Brain drain is not an issue at TJ, and every kid needs a couple weeks before school to recharge. My kid is fine reading a book. Taking 15 hours to get to ten handwritten pages of notes to get checked for a completion grade and never used again is pointless. And not a fan of self teaching BC Calc over the summer to take AP Physics. Then half the class has to drop as failing. Getting rid of summer homework bought her some goodwill with me.

I’m not sure what PP is so livid, and I don’t see any specific complaint. Just TJ sucks. But my kid loves it and won’t leave??. Okay then. Sounds like you and your kid need to get on the same page. And if there is a specific problem articulate it.

Give challenge success a chance. I’m sure parents will gripe loud and long about any deliverables that actually decrease rigor or make things worse. This is not exactly a quiet, timid group. 2/3 of Math 4 failed the first test and there was a school wide meeting demanded by parents. And ultimately, there was an extra chance to get back points. It’ll be okay.

Another TJ parent here. This times a million. There are many, many screwed up things about TJ and how they run the school. I find it appalling how terrible the math department was when you consider that it is a STEM magnet school. My younger kid actually passed on TJ (withdrew after passing the entrance exam) because of my older kid's experience. I think TJ is great in many ways, but to say there's nothing that needs to be fixed, improved or addressed is just flat wrong. There are some TERRIBLE things about the educational experience at TJ. And it isn't because the kids "can't hack it." My kid got a 1590 SAT score, a perfect math SAT score, and 5's on every AP exam. But struggled, hated and actually looks forward to taking a STEM break in college next year (he's likely heading to a SLAC, fwiw).

PP above. We need to get together and talk SLACs. Not a lot of that at TJ. IDK another kid doing it.

Maybe we can start another thread. I know of several kids who are friends of my kid who are also applying and seriously considering SLACs.