Anonymous wrote:Be there for your niece and nephew before your brother. A girlfriend does not = wife or children. He can come by himself and be accepted or go away with the OW. His choice.

Once he gets divorced and custody has been worked out, then I would have no problem with the OW coming over.

This. I would be very calm though about it. I would not yell "No way in hell am i meeting that tramp." They chose eachother and they are both at fault. I would just calmly decline meeting her until the divorce is finalized but be cordial to your brother and absolutely be there for his kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does SIL's remarriage have to do with their dad paying for their college? He damn well better help pay to educate his own children.

Ha!

Have you met men who have affairs? It’s common for them to cut back on support for the kids. That’s why college is often included in divorce settlements - men want to spend their money on their affair partner after they leave. Even men who were “devoted dads” once upon a time.

DP. That was just weird for PP to phrase it like that. What, the new husband was supposed to put kids from the first marriage through college?

What? Do you think once a guy divorces his wife, all responsibilities to his children end?

In my circles it’s common for parents to pay for college.

The only times I know this has become an issue for parents are in divorced families. Often the dad had an affair or is more focused on dating and is just not interested in his children from his first marriage. I know that people will say that college is not s right and all of that. And that’s true. Yet, while they were married these guys were planning to provide for their kids education. Not so much after. Just my experience.

I don't know who you are responding to, but I am the last PP you quoted. And not sure why you are trying to argue if that was exactly my point? My question was to the previous person - is exH NOT responsible for paying for college for HIS kids once the mom re-marries a new guy? And we are not talking about jerks going through mid-life crisis, we are talking about norms.

It’s possible the point was that the exW had more money after remarrying, because presumably she was then sharing household expenses. So her own discretionary funds increased, but exH didn’t try to change the arrangement so she would chip in more for college.

AND according to PP's story the exH also remarried and presumably was sharing household expenses with the new wife => discretionary funds increased.

But we also don't know whether the father paid for college for 3 kids all by himself or split with the exW.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does SIL's remarriage have to do with their dad paying for their college? He damn well better help pay to educate his own children.

Ha!

Have you met men who have affairs? It’s common for them to cut back on support for the kids. That’s why college is often included in divorce settlements - men want to spend their money on their affair partner after they leave. Even men who were “devoted dads” once upon a time.

DP. That was just weird for PP to phrase it like that. What, the new husband was supposed to put kids from the first marriage through college?

What? Do you think once a guy divorces his wife, all responsibilities to his children end?

In my circles it’s common for parents to pay for college.

The only times I know this has become an issue for parents are in divorced families. Often the dad had an affair or is more focused on dating and is just not interested in his children from his first marriage. I know that people will say that college is not s right and all of that. And that’s true. Yet, while they were married these guys were planning to provide for their kids education. Not so much after. Just my experience.

I don't know who you are responding to, but I am the last PP you quoted. And not sure why you are trying to argue if that was exactly my point? My question was to the previous person - is exH NOT responsible for paying for college for HIS kids once the mom re-marries a new guy? And we are not talking about jerks going through mid-life crisis, we are talking about norms.

It’s possible the point was that the exW had more money after remarrying, because presumably she was then sharing household expenses. So her own discretionary funds increased, but exH didn’t try to change the arrangement so she would chip in more for college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does SIL's remarriage have to do with their dad paying for their college? He damn well better help pay to educate his own children.

Ha!

Have you met men who have affairs? It’s common for them to cut back on support for the kids. That’s why college is often included in divorce settlements - men want to spend their money on their affair partner after they leave. Even men who were “devoted dads” once upon a time.

DP. That was just weird for PP to phrase it like that. What, the new husband was supposed to put kids from the first marriage through college?

What? Do you think once a guy divorces his wife, all responsibilities to his children end?

In my circles it’s common for parents to pay for college.

The only times I know this has become an issue for parents are in divorced families. Often the dad had an affair or is more focused on dating and is just not interested in his children from his first marriage. I know that people will say that college is not s right and all of that. And that’s true. Yet, while they were married these guys were planning to provide for their kids education. Not so much after. Just my experience.

I don't know who you are responding to, but I am the last PP you quoted. And not sure why you are trying to argue if that was exactly my point? My question was to the previous person - is exH NOT responsible for paying for college for HIS kids once the mom re-marries a new guy? And we are not talking about jerks going through mid-life crisis, we are talking about norms.

Anonymous wrote:My brother cheated and has since married the OW. His divorce took about 1.5 years and they’d been seeing each other a few months and his state has a waiting period after divorce so they got married about two years after they met. By then she was pregnant. My nephew (child from first marriage) wasn’t allowed to meet her until divorce was final (I think part of why it dragged out) so he met his pregnant future step mother just months before she married his dad.

I don’t agree with how my brother went about things and don’t agree with my family’s approach (which basically was to embrace her / move on) but I also don’t see where the value would have been if I’d refused to meet her those two years. I live far away so it was about 1 year into their relationship before I met her.

I will never agree with my brother’s approach rather than divorcing or at least separating first, but making drawing a line in the sand would just lose me a brother / access to my nephews and alienate family.

We all make choices. A brother who would end the relationship over you waiting to meet the OW until after the divorce is probably overstepping in other aspects of life too.

Plus you can afford the OW the same courtesy when the time comes.

My brother cheated and has since married the OW. His divorce took about 1.5 years and they’d been seeing each other a few months and his state has a waiting period after divorce so they got married about two years after they met. By then she was pregnant. My nephew (child from first marriage) wasn’t allowed to meet her until divorce was final (I think part of why it dragged out) so he met his pregnant future step mother just months before she married his dad.

I don’t agree with how my brother went about things and don’t agree with my family’s approach (which basically was to embrace her / move on) but I also don’t see where the value would have been if I’d refused to meet her those two years. I live far away so it was about 1 year into their relationship before I met her.

I will never agree with my brother’s approach rather than divorcing or at least separating first, but making drawing a line in the sand would just lose me a brother / access to my nephews and alienate family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He is your brother. You don’t know the details of what was going on in the marriage. You are making a mistake.

Plus 1

There are literally no "details of the marriage" that make cheating OK. While OP can't force her brother not to cheat in the marriage, HE also can't force her to do something that is against her ethical values.

If it were me, I would take the position another PP stated - one wife at a time. When the divorce is finalized with the 1st wife, you will be willing to meet a second wife or partner. You should be cordial to AP, but personally, I would never trust her or befriend her. Treat her like a work colleague or someone that you are obliged to have a cordial but not personal or warm relationship with. If that means that brother chooses to go elsewhere for Thanksgiving, so be it. Meanwhile, I would try to maintain a relationship with brother individually by inviting him to do things that wouldn't normally incorporate a spouse or partner -- meet up for lunch during the work day (presuming AP wasn't in brother's place of employment).

People who say, "you don't know the details of what was going on in the marriage" are implying that the wife's behavior could be responsible for the husband's cheating. That is never the case. We are each in control of our own behavior. Outsiders who choose to "blame the marriage" or imply that cheating happened because of sexual dissatisfaction are playing the role of bystander to emotional abuse. Welcoming an AP before the divorce is official is being too much of a bystander for me; it's not a role I would be ethically comfortable playing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does SIL's remarriage have to do with their dad paying for their college? He damn well better help pay to educate his own children.

Ha!

Have you met men who have affairs? It’s common for them to cut back on support for the kids. That’s why college is often included in divorce settlements - men want to spend their money on their affair partner after they leave. Even men who were “devoted dads” once upon a time.

DP. That was just weird for PP to phrase it like that. What, the new husband was supposed to put kids from the first marriage through college?

What? Do you think once a guy divorces his wife, all responsibilities to his children end?

In my circles it’s common for parents to pay for college.

The only times I know this has become an issue for parents are in divorced families. Often the dad had an affair or is more focused on dating and is just not interested in his children from his first marriage. I know that people will say that college is not s right and all of that. And that’s true. Yet, while they were married these guys were planning to provide for their kids education. Not so much after. Just my experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's your brother. Be there for him. Showing love and kindness to your brother is never the wrong thing to do.

Agreed. You should show love and kindness to your brother. Supporting his affair does neither.

“After you’re divorced, I would love to meet any woman you’re dating. As long as you’re married, I refuse to be involved in your affairs.”

If he throws a tantrum like a toddler, you act like the grown up.

+1 At this point I would be much more concerned about supporting his kids than anyone else. They're the ones who are having to face all the upheaval and they are the ones who need people to be there for them unconditionally. I would convey this to my brother in no uncertain terms. And then I would plan something special for those kids.

+2 If they are still together by the time the divorce is done, which is statistically unlikely, then you can meet the other woman. She's probably not someone you are going to want in your life, or the lives of your kids, though. Nor is their uncle, to be honest.

While the main fault for the affair obviously rests with the person who was married, I have on qualms about saying the OW is probably pretty bad person as well. All the times your brother lied to his wife and kids about where he was, she knew. She probably even encouraged it. They are trash humans that deserve each other, but you're not missing much by keeping her out of your life, and the lives of the rest of the folks in your family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, my family pulled this crap on my brother when he left his marriage and wanted to bring the OW around, instead of thinking about our relationship with him, we let our SIL call the shots on our relationship. End result, he married the OW (eloped) with none of us going to the wedding and they have now been married 22 years with three children. We have never met his children from this relationship and I only know what I know about my brother from second hand talk or social media. I wish I had put my relationship with my brother first, I've missed so much and he will not talk to any of us. Think about your brother.

Curious if he was present with his kids from the first marriage and how that went.

Yes, he was, but the divorce was pretty bad as divorces go so custody was ran through the courts and a moderator of sorts. Basically he and SIL refused to speak with each other so the kids were exchanged week with him, week with her, just awful. Anyway, we were very involved in the kids lives (bds, etc) but we never saw him just invites from SIL. So when they were with her we would see them if there was an occasion and of course some sleepovers and amusement park trips. But never once did I ask his kids about him, did not want to do that to them. From what I saw/know he was there and present, paid his child support and covered their college even though SIL is remarried. Just a bad situation all around. If I learned one thing it's that my SIL was entirely innocent in the process of their marriage falling apart. It does take two, it's true, to make or break a marriage. Anyway, we chose to stay friends with SIL to have access to the kids. In the end she is not someone I would be friends with, but she is a good mother to my nephew and nieces. I would have sucked it up if I had it to do over again and let him bring the OW to my home and I would have put my foot up my mother's .... to make her see losing her son just wasn't worth it. Life lessons

You should not feel bad at all. Your brother threw his family away and then had no problems throwing you all away. He does not sound like a good person.

Be there for your niece and nephew before your brother. A girlfriend does not = wife or children. He can come by himself and be accepted or go away with the OW. His choice.

Once he gets divorced and custody has been worked out, then I would have no problem with the OW coming over.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


This is op's family member you're talking about. He has blown up his life and is trying to connect with his family. He is deserving of love and kindness, even if op chooses not to meet the girlfriend at this time. Do you toss family aside when they f*ck up?

Hmmm. How loving and kind was he to his own family (wife & kids)? Did he not just toss them aside for an affair?
And he is not being tossed aside. Did OP say anywhere that he wasn't allowed to attend Thanksgiving or not to contact his parents? Did I miss the part where they won't speak to him until he ditches OW? Nope. They don't want to meet OW before the divorce if final and the children meet her. That is reasonable.

See above where I mentioned he has blown his life up. This isn't the time to shun him -issuing ultimatums and shaming him won't work. He isn't coming to Thanksgiving w/o his girlfriend. If op wants to have a relationship with her brother, she eventually has to meet this woman. Suck it up for the sake of the family.

For the sake of which family? Meeting the brother without OW is fine. Meeting the OW before his kids is a power play on his part, and is a path toward alienating his parents/sister from his children. Even if OW is a lovely but flawed person, introducing her to his parents and sibs is a very bad idea. They are not his primary family any more. His kids are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


This is op's family member you're talking about. He has blown up his life and is trying to connect with his family. He is deserving of love and kindness, even if op chooses not to meet the girlfriend at this time. Do you toss family aside when they f*ck up?

Hmmm. How loving and kind was he to his own family (wife & kids)? Did he not just toss them aside for an affair?
And he is not being tossed aside. Did OP say anywhere that he wasn't allowed to attend Thanksgiving or not to contact his parents? Did I miss the part where they won't speak to him until he ditches OW? Nope. They don't want to meet OW before the divorce if final and the children meet her. That is reasonable.

See above where I mentioned he has blown his life up. This isn't the time to shun him -issuing ultimatums and shaming him won't work. He isn't coming to Thanksgiving w/o his girlfriend. If op wants to have a relationship with her brother, she eventually has to meet this woman. Suck it up for the sake of the family.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does SIL's remarriage have to do with their dad paying for their college? He damn well better help pay to educate his own children.

Ha!

Have you met men who have affairs? It’s common for them to cut back on support for the kids. That’s why college is often included in divorce settlements - men want to spend their money on their affair partner after they leave. Even men who were “devoted dads” once upon a time.

DP. That was just weird for PP to phrase it like that. What, the new husband was supposed to put kids from the first marriage through college?

Anonymous wrote:What does SIL's remarriage have to do with their dad paying for their college? He damn well better help pay to educate his own children.

Ha!

Have you met men who have affairs? It’s common for them to cut back on support for the kids. That’s why college is often included in divorce settlements - men want to spend their money on their affair partner after they leave. Even men who were “devoted dads” once upon a time.