Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m noticing an awful lot of defensive people who think screens are mostly necessary and fine. Ask yourselves why you’re being so defensive. Ask yourselves why your kids can’t get through a meal out or a flight or one goddamn day without a screen. It’s unhealthy. And I say this as a person with a problematic relationship with her phone.

I'm one of the pps who said moderation is key and noted that my kids play games online with their cousins on the west coast.

FTR, we have never brought screens to a restaurant or on vacation (not even flights). We talk to eachother rather than rely on screens. But my kids do play video games, watch spongebob, etc. I find it interesting how the no screens/minimal screens parents seem to rely on screens as crutches for travel or waiting rooms.

I always find this funny too. Watching screens during car rides I get. Giving a kid an iPad while you are in the middle of your own doctors appointment, I get. But I don’t understand the restaurant/waiting room/plane ride thing.

I like to watch TV and movies with my kids. DH likes to play video games with them, and they play with each other. I let them watch TV on their own when I am getting stuff done around the house. But when we are at a restaurant or on a flight, I literally have nothing else I need to do but play with/read to/talk to my younger kids. My older kids typically have homework they need to get done during the flight, but if not, then they read or talk. It just seems like such an odd time to pull out a movie. Even more so if it’s the ONLY time you ever watch movies.

Do you not watch a movie on a plane when you fly alone? This seems like a weird stance. The movie in the car is what I don't get!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your kids will start begging for a phone in 4th/5th grade. The pleas will intensify. They will not abate.

Your children will need cell phones in middle school. First, that's where kids social lives are now whether you like it or not. You want your child to have friends, right? Second, if your child is doing after-school activities, they will need to be able to text you regarding pick up times, letting you know they're home or where they are, etc.

They will also need a laptop because all their readings and homework is online.

By high school, they will take their phones everywhere. My HS student just picked up her mandatory school-issued laptop yesterday, even though she already has one at home. It is for connecting to Google Classroom, a requirement. Glimpse the future, OP.

OP here. I didn't mention this in my initial post, because it doesn't seem relevant. But my partner works closely with a lot of Silicon Valley types and we have spent time out there. Do you know what most Silicon Valley execs do with their kids? Little to no screen time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/26/style/phones-children-silicon-valley.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/silicon-valley-parents-raising-their-kids-tech-free-red-flag-2018-2

If you even get a glimpse into how this kind of technology works and what it's designed to do, you would not want your kids on it. The "future" is, in the eyes of the people inventing this technology, going to be divided into the mindless masses and the ones who control them through their creations. Until it's regulated by the government, which doesn't seem like it will be happening any time soon, the influence of these industries on our daily lives and culture is a real concern. Everyone here seems to be saying "well, everyone is doing it so you don't want to miss out." That's how people used to think about smoking when the tobacco industry had its way with government. There is a reason why social media, gaming, and YouTube controls so much of our nation's attention and time. This is big money we're talking about, and conquering the market of the next generation is part of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you but there’s a big gap between knowing that and dealing with a 13 year old girl crying that she has no friends and is so lonely because all the girls make plans to go to the mall or movies or hang out at someone’s house via texting or WhatsApp or whatever and she didn’t get invited because she doesn’t have a phone and no one will put a mom onto the text chain. Maybe the rich folks in Silicon Valley don’t have that problem because their teens have servants who plan their social calendars? I dunno. But I’m raising kids in the world I live in, and I think there’s very little that’s black and white about any of this.

Or maybe the Silicon Valley execs are exaggerating when they say their kids have little to no screen time? Just like my friend who constantly pontificates about the evils of screen time and became very red faced when her kid started singing the theme to a popular cartoon. She quickly explained that Larla loves music, so she learned the theme song by merely listening to it. Of course little Larla then shared copious details about the show while mom tried to redirect her.

Personally, I believe adults understand how tv, ads, you tube, etc. are designed to promote consumerism. And I see the big brother aspect of our digital footprint. But I'm not really troubled by it. I accept it, and I adapt. And perhaps most importantly, I teach my kids about it.

Do you worry about how your kids will learn how to navigate screens and social media if it's presented as some sort of evil thing? Or some sort of adults only thing?

Having watched two kids from a junk food free home literally take a basket of cookies (meant for a party of 50 people) from the buffet table and run and hide to eat it, I've personally seen what happens when moms attempt to raise science projects rather than well rounded kids. The kids were double gusting them as the parents crawled behind furniture to retrieve them. It was hilarious and sad. Needless to say, those kids have developed rather bizarre relationships with food thanks to rigid parenting.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you but there’s a big gap between knowing that and dealing with a 13 year old girl crying that she has no friends and is so lonely because all the girls make plans to go to the mall or movies or hang out at someone’s house via texting or WhatsApp or whatever and she didn’t get invited because she doesn’t have a phone and no one will put a mom onto the text chain. Maybe the rich folks in Silicon Valley don’t have that problem because their teens have servants who plan their social calendars? I dunno. But I’m raising kids in the world I live in, and I think there’s very little that’s black and white about any of this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My boys play a fair amount of video games, but they always prefer going outside to play. They play a good amount of board games and nerf wars & dodgeball in the basement when the weather is bad.

We never put strict limits on screens or made a big deal out of it. We don't harp on healthy eating nor count grams of sugar. Somehow they know not to sit around eating pop tarts & chips all day.

It's harder to parent & raise children who can recognize & live an overall healthy lifestyle of moderation than to siply say No, we don't allow screen time or sugar in our house. Those parents are the ones who have children stuffing their faces with candy & pop at friends' houses.

This is us, we don’t have strict limits on these things either. My kids don’t throw fits for screen time or for candy. They love to play outside and are very active. If things change and they start sitting around watching spongebob and drinking mt dew, we will readjust. But for now, laid back works for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your school choice in the future will make a difference. We have a 9th, 7th, 5th and 2nd grader. They do not have phones. We don’t own video games. The older kids are allowed to use the computer for school- research and writing - but they ask permission. We watch movies on weekend nights. They older kids have go-pros and my youngest enjoys her camera but otherwise they are tech-free. My husband and I are not on social media (except dcum) and we try to limit ourselves in wasting time on our phones. Our kids do well in school. They play sports (not travel) and play outside all the time - riding bikes, skateboarding, climbing trees. I do t think parents realize it can be done or maybe they don’t have the guts to impose rules on their kids. My kids actually feel bad for kids they are staring down at their phones. We had an exchange student recently that brought his phone and until we suggested he put it away during the day he was completely missing the experience of being in another country. Once he put the phone down his English exploded and he was much happier. Honestly it was mostly his parents and girlfriend distracting him all the time and keeping him from engaging. The contrast was remarkable. A lot of parents will tell you that moderation is okay but they should look closer at what the devices are keeping their kids from.

Well it's no wonder you all don't use phones - you wouldn't be able to hold them since you walk around patting yourselves on the backs all day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t watch movies when I fly alone, but I don’t think it’s odd if you do unless that is literally the ONLY time you ever watch movies.
And I get movies for kids in the car because the adult has to drive the car, which is kind of a dangerous thing to do, and they need to focus on the road, not a crying three year old. But on the plane, you are just sitting there with nothing else to do. Why is this the ONLY time you will let your child watch a movie?

I don't watch movies very often but I do tend to watch them on planes. Why? Because I'm stuck in my seat for hours and there's a screen in the seat in front of me with dozens of movies and t.v. shows that I can watch for free. And you use headphones/earbuds so no one else needs to hear. I didn't really limit screens when my kid was young but this seems like a pretty good time to allow it. A happy kid who isn't bothering the other people on the plane. And you don't even need to supply the screen/movie. Plus it's probably hard to implement no screens if you kid can see other people's screens from his seat. No amount of happy finger puppets and stickers would keep my kid's eyes from eventually wandering. So yes, odd that it's the only time but it does seem a reasonable time.

Because we prefer not to and find other things to do? Is this hard? You act like just because it's there, you should use it, or else you are some total fanatical rigid loon. I don't think a movie on a plane will kill my kid. I think the drawbacks are relatively minimal. But there are still some drawbacks for my family, so I found different activities, and it all worked out. If that makes me a freak, so be it.

I don't understand how this is different from, for example, not giving my kid juice when she's sick. Juice is... fine? Okay, maybe you're drinking your calories and blah blah blah, but it's not going to kill her, especially when it's only under "special" circumstances, or once in a while.

OTOH she doesn't need it, and she's not feeling deprived without it, so if she's happily drinking water, what's it to you?

It's nothing to me. I said that I understand why people might allow screen time during plane travel. If you don't allow it, that's fine too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t watch movies when I fly alone, but I don’t think it’s odd if you do unless that is literally the ONLY time you ever watch movies.
And I get movies for kids in the car because the adult has to drive the car, which is kind of a dangerous thing to do, and they need to focus on the road, not a crying three year old. But on the plane, you are just sitting there with nothing else to do. Why is this the ONLY time you will let your child watch a movie?

I don't watch movies very often but I do tend to watch them on planes. Why? Because I'm stuck in my seat for hours and there's a screen in the seat in front of me with dozens of movies and t.v. shows that I can watch for free. And you use headphones/earbuds so no one else needs to hear. I didn't really limit screens when my kid was young but this seems like a pretty good time to allow it. A happy kid who isn't bothering the other people on the plane. And you don't even need to supply the screen/movie. Plus it's probably hard to implement no screens if you kid can see other people's screens from his seat. No amount of happy finger puppets and stickers would keep my kid's eyes from eventually wandering. So yes, odd that it's the only time but it does seem a reasonable time.

Because we prefer not to and find other things to do? Is this hard? You act like just because it's there, you should use it, or else you are some total fanatical rigid loon. I don't think a movie on a plane will kill my kid. I think the drawbacks are relatively minimal. But there are still some drawbacks for my family, so I found different activities, and it all worked out. If that makes me a freak, so be it.

I don't understand how this is different from, for example, not giving my kid juice when she's sick. Juice is... fine? Okay, maybe you're drinking your calories and blah blah blah, but it's not going to kill her, especially when it's only under "special" circumstances, or once in a while.

OTOH she doesn't need it, and she's not feeling deprived without it, so if she's happily drinking water, what's it to you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My boys play a fair amount of video games, but they always prefer going outside to play. They play a good amount of board games and nerf wars & dodgeball in the basement when the weather is bad.

We never put strict limits on screens or made a big deal out of it. We don't harp on healthy eating nor count grams of sugar. Somehow they know not to sit around eating pop tarts & chips all day.

It's harder to parent & raise children who can recognize & live an overall healthy lifestyle of moderation than to siply say No, we don't allow screen time or sugar in our house. Those parents are the ones who have children stuffing their faces with candy & pop at friends' houses.

This is us, we don’t have strict limits on these things either. My kids don’t throw fits for screen time or for candy. They love to play outside and are very active. If things change and they start sitting around watching spongebob and drinking mt dew, we will readjust. But for now, laid back works for us.

Yeah, if their behavior starts to change, then we'll address, but my oldest is in college and my youngest is 10 so I'm confident that our approach works.

I love the parents who proudly state that their children don't play video games ever. Then they get around to adding they don't even own a game system. Congrats, I guess? My children have never forgotten to feed or walk the dog. I mean, we've never owned one, but my kids are so awesome for never forgetting to take care of it.

Not sure I get the analogy. Gaming has been recognized by the WHO as a disease. There are tons of researchers, experts in the field of addiction, who research this. Social media leads to increased rates of depression and anxiety among teens. This is all documented by extensive empirical study and millions of dollars are being spent every year trying to address it. Shrug it off if you want, but I wouldn’t leave highly addictive things around kids with developing brains and hope they learn to moderate themselves. Addiction isn’t a matter of will. Addictive behaviors alter your brain chemistry and functioning.

K. Video games aren't meth. lol Obesity is a disease. I usually have cookies in the house yet none of us are overweight. And I don't hope my children don't become addicted to gaming. I model & teach moderation. I find it more impressive that a parent can teach their children to moderate screen time rather than one who just bans it. The dog thing was a joke. Your kids don't stay up at night gaming bc you don't have an xbox. Wow. My don't bc they are tired from playing outside all night and now playing monopoly in the same room as the addictive xbox.

Some of our relatives have that line about teaching their kids moderation. They have three kids also, and every one of them loves their screens. One is a competitive athlete, one a dancer, etc. But as you go down the line to the youngest you see more and more issues with attention and developmental delays. You realize that the oldest got the least screentime and as more kids came, the parents resorted to screens as babysitters because they lacked the energy to engage with all three and to give the last one what they gave the first. Whether we are on vacation somewhere new or at their house, we inevitably see the kids zoning out in front of TV vs playing imaginative games or socializing, and there are definitely tantrums and family tension over how much it is used. The difference in birth order and screentime is also marked. The older one might pull out an art project. The middle is nearly always on a device. The youngest can’t sleep or self-soothe without videos and the parents just throw it at her to basically get a break.

Totally normal. But I think when you feel that defensive about rationalizing your parenting you need to take a look at why you feel that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you but there’s a big gap between knowing that and dealing with a 13 year old girl crying that she has no friends and is so lonely because all the girls make plans to go to the mall or movies or hang out at someone’s house via texting or WhatsApp or whatever and she didn’t get invited because she doesn’t have a phone and no one will put a mom onto the text chain. Maybe the rich folks in Silicon Valley don’t have that problem because their teens have servants who plan their social calendars? I dunno. But I’m raising kids in the world I live in, and I think there’s very little that’s black and white about any of this.

Or maybe the Silicon Valley execs are exaggerating when they say their kids have little to no screen time? Just like my friend who constantly pontificates about the evils of screen time and became very red faced when her kid started singing the theme to a popular cartoon. She quickly explained that Larla loves music, so she learned the theme song by merely listening to it. Of course little Larla then shared copious details about the show while mom tried to redirect her.

Personally, I believe adults understand how tv, ads, you tube, etc. are designed to promote consumerism. And I see the big brother aspect of our digital footprint. But I'm not really troubled by it. I accept it, and I adapt. And perhaps most importantly, I teach my kids about it.

Do you worry about how your kids will learn how to navigate screens and social media if it's presented as some sort of evil thing? Or some sort of adults only thing?

Having watched two kids from a junk food free home literally take a basket of cookies (meant for a party of 50 people) from the buffet table and run and hide to eat it, I've personally seen what happens when moms attempt to raise science projects rather than well rounded kids. The kids were double gusting them as the parents crawled behind furniture to retrieve them. It was hilarious and sad. Needless to say, those kids have developed rather bizarre relationships with food thanks to rigid parenting.

Our children's friends (8- and 10-year-olds being raised as vegetarians) begged and pleaded for bacon from my children's plates at a restaurant.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t watch movies when I fly alone, but I don’t think it’s odd if you do unless that is literally the ONLY time you ever watch movies.
And I get movies for kids in the car because the adult has to drive the car, which is kind of a dangerous thing to do, and they need to focus on the road, not a crying three year old. But on the plane, you are just sitting there with nothing else to do. Why is this the ONLY time you will let your child watch a movie?

I don't watch movies very often but I do tend to watch them on planes. Why? Because I'm stuck in my seat for hours and there's a screen in the seat in front of me with dozens of movies and t.v. shows that I can watch for free. And you use headphones/earbuds so no one else needs to hear. I didn't really limit screens when my kid was young but this seems like a pretty good time to allow it. A happy kid who isn't bothering the other people on the plane. And you don't even need to supply the screen/movie. Plus it's probably hard to implement no screens if you kid can see other people's screens from his seat. No amount of happy finger puppets and stickers would keep my kid's eyes from eventually wandering. So yes, odd that it's the only time but it does seem a reasonable time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are 11 and 14. The 14 yr old got a smart phone when she started high school,, and as she put it "Even the boy who wears the same sweatpants every day and has no friends because he only makes moose noises has a phone."

The reality is, kids make their plans with each other via phone. Teachers expect kids to have cell phones. So she has one, and there are a lot of rules attached.

She does not realize this, but she is VERY busy for a reason. She has minimal time to sit around with her head in a screen. The 11 yr old is still seeing almost no screens.

Wow. I hope you immediately changed the subject from her getting a from to how she can practice being a more compassionate human being. I would feel like I had failed as a parent if my children said something like that.

Thank you! This was my reaction as well. I would focus a little more on compassion PP. You and your daughter sound awful.

8th grade teacher here: those are words of a normal 14 year old. They are fairly mean peaking in 8th grade and slowly become more compassionate.

Very slowly. Yet to happen to the parent who posted this as a joke.

??
I actually thought PP’s 14 year old daughter joke was funny. I like kids who have a good sense of humor. And she made a good point!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are 11 and 14. The 14 yr old got a smart phone when she started high school,, and as she put it "Even the boy who wears the same sweatpants every day and has no friends because he only makes moose noises has a phone."

The reality is, kids make their plans with each other via phone. Teachers expect kids to have cell phones. So she has one, and there are a lot of rules attached.

She does not realize this, but she is VERY busy for a reason. She has minimal time to sit around with her head in a screen. The 11 yr old is still seeing almost no screens.

Wow. I hope you immediately changed the subject from her getting a from to how she can practice being a more compassionate human being. I would feel like I had failed as a parent if my children said something like that.

Thank you! This was my reaction as well. I would focus a little more on compassion PP. You and your daughter sound awful.

8th grade teacher here: those are words of a normal 14 year old. They are fairly mean peaking in 8th grade and slowly become more compassionate.

Very slowly. Yet to happen to the parent who posted this as a joke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you but there’s a big gap between knowing that and dealing with a 13 year old girl crying that she has no friends and is so lonely because all the girls make plans to go to the mall or movies or hang out at someone’s house via texting or WhatsApp or whatever and she didn’t get invited because she doesn’t have a phone and no one will put a mom onto the text chain. Maybe the rich folks in Silicon Valley don’t have that problem because their teens have servants who plan their social calendars? I dunno. But I’m raising kids in the world I live in, and I think there’s very little that’s black and white about any of this.

Or maybe the Silicon Valley execs are exaggerating when they say their kids have little to no screen time? Just like my friend who constantly pontificates about the evils of screen time and became very red faced when her kid started singing the theme to a popular cartoon. She quickly explained that Larla loves music, so she learned the theme song by merely listening to it. Of course little Larla then shared copious details about the show while mom tried to redirect her.

Personally, I believe adults understand how tv, ads, you tube, etc. are designed to promote consumerism. And I see the big brother aspect of our digital footprint. But I'm not really troubled by it. I accept it, and I adapt. And perhaps most importantly, I teach my kids about it.

Do you worry about how your kids will learn how to navigate screens and social media if it's presented as some sort of evil thing? Or some sort of adults only thing?

Having watched two kids from a junk food free home literally take a basket of cookies (meant for a party of 50 people) from the buffet table and run and hide to eat it, I've personally seen what happens when moms attempt to raise science projects rather than well rounded kids. The kids were double gusting them as the parents crawled behind furniture to retrieve them. It was hilarious and sad. Needless to say, those kids have developed rather bizarre relationships with food thanks to rigid parenting.