Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

That is incorrect - people are asking for untimed tests or extra time for all. The ones opposing are the parents who have accomodations for their kids with their reasonings that extra time does not help, you don’t understand SN, etc. They protest too much hence one begins to suspect that too much time has been given which helped their kids more than it should have.

Nah, the NO EXTRA TIME FOR ANYONE-type poster(s) assert that everyone would get a perfect score with more time, but they don’t actually want to put that to the test. I agree with the point that a PP (whom I otherwise disagree with) made re these tests being too easy — at least for differentiating among very talented and well-prepared students. But time pressure isn’t the way to address that problem because “Who’s the fastest?” isn’t the relevant question. Better to have a more challenging test and give everyone enough time to take it.

+1111

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

That is incorrect - people are asking for untimed tests or extra time for all. The ones opposing are the parents who have accomodations for their kids with their reasonings that extra time does not help, you don’t understand SN, etc. They protest too much hence one begins to suspect that too much time has been given which helped their kids more than it should have.

Nah, the NO EXTRA TIME FOR ANYONE-type poster(s) assert that everyone would get a perfect score with more time, but they don’t actually want to put that to the test. I agree with the point that a PP (whom I otherwise disagree with) made re these tests being too easy — at least for differentiating among very talented and well-prepared students. But time pressure isn’t the way to address that problem because “Who’s the fastest?” isn’t the relevant question. Better to have a more challenging test and give everyone enough time to take it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

That is incorrect - people are asking for untimed tests or extra time for all. The ones opposing are the parents who have accomodations for their kids with their reasonings that extra time does not help, you don’t understand SN, etc. They protest too much hence one begins to suspect that too much time has been given which helped their kids more than it should have.

I may have misinterpreted, but my impression was the other way around, that parents of kids without extra time were the ones objecting to the idea of extra time for all -- perhaps it is merely a subset. Parents of accommodation kids would love not to endure the expense and metaphorical rectal exam involved in getting accommodations for their kids to show what they know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to see this extra time scam go away. I’d like ACT and SAT to have to disclose the exact accommodations. But I know this won’t happen.

Instead I invite everyone to get their kids extra time. Go to an ed psych and explain how you think your dc is slow and not performing to his potential. Have your dc absolutely bomb the processing speed subtests. It’s not hard to explain to your kid how and why. Done.

If more and more people do this hopefully this will change for the better.

My DC had extra time because he had a reader and a scribe. Both take longer to take tests as a result. It has to go through two brains ad the scribe frequently doesnt write very fast. He received 50% extra time as a result.

Is your DC in a private school? Do you pay for the reader and the scribe? I am am curious. If your DC is in a public school and the school system pays for the reader and the scribe, will colleges, whether public or private, also pay for the reader and the scribe? Will employers also pay? I genuinly don't know the answer to this. I am asking to be aware of the opportunities that exist out there. TIA.

DC went to public. For tests in school, he would go to the LD office and someone there would read and scribe for him. For SOLs, they had a set place for him to go. For SATs, they have set places to take them with accommodations. One of his high school teachers went through he SAT training and ended up being his scribe and reader. SATs do not charge more fr accommodations, nor should they. In school, his accommodations were part of his IEP. He is currently in college, and gets the electronic version of a reader and a scribe.

Software is really great, he will not need a scribe or reader in his future job. He can use word predictive software and r=text to speech functions quite easily. Microsoft has it built right into their system now. He will need someone to look over things before he sends something out, but this is common practice for everyone in most offices I have been employed.

Standardized test places dont like using the student’s laptop with the built in software because it allows students to access outside things during the test. Having a scribe/reader controls for that. This is not a factor in “the real world”.

This is the kind to accommodation that is good. It is targeted and specific. It would not be a benefit to give to anyone else. And it will not be required in the real world or, if it is, it is very easy to accommodate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

That is incorrect - people are asking for untimed tests or extra time for all. The ones opposing are the parents who have accomodations for their kids with their reasonings that extra time does not help, you don’t understand SN, etc. They protest too much hence one begins to suspect that too much time has been given which helped their kids more than it should have.

. Actually,this is incorrect. Most of us with children with disabilities that have the extra time accommodation, dont care if others get additional or unlimited time.

Anonymous wrote:And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

Disagree. The test should test whatever is best for the schools to assess who will have the best chance of success at the school. If speed is not necessary to assess that, then we should move to untimed tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really want to see this extra time scam go away. I’d like ACT and SAT to have to disclose the exact accommodations. But I know this won’t happen.

Instead I invite everyone to get their kids extra time. Go to an ed psych and explain how you think your dc is slow and not performing to his potential. Have your dc absolutely bomb the processing speed subtests. It’s not hard to explain to your kid how and why. Done.

If more and more people do this hopefully this will change for the better.

My DC had extra time because he had a reader and a scribe. Both take longer to take tests as a result. It has to go through two brains ad the scribe frequently doesnt write very fast. He received 50% extra time as a result.

Is your DC in a private school? Do you pay for the reader and the scribe? I am am curious. If your DC is in a public school and the school system pays for the reader and the scribe, will colleges, whether public or private, also pay for the reader and the scribe? Will employers also pay? I genuinly don't know the answer to this. I am asking to be aware of the opportunities that exist out there. TIA.

DC went to public. For tests in school, he would go to the LD office and someone there would read and scribe for him. For SOLs, they had a set place for him to go. For SATs, they have set places to take them with accommodations. One of his high school teachers went through he SAT training and ended up being his scribe and reader. SATs do not charge more fr accommodations, nor should they. In school, his accommodations were part of his IEP. He is currently in college, and gets the electronic version of a reader and a scribe.

Software is really great, he will not need a scribe or reader in his future job. He can use word predictive software and r=text to speech functions quite easily. Microsoft has it built right into their system now. He will need someone to look over things before he sends something out, but this is common practice for everyone in most offices I have been employed.

Standardized test places dont like using the student’s laptop with the built in software because it allows students to access outside things during the test. Having a scribe/reader controls for that. This is not a factor in “the real world”.

Anonymous wrote:And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

That is incorrect - people are asking for untimed tests or extra time for all. The ones opposing are the parents who have accomodations for their kids with their reasonings that extra time does not help, you don’t understand SN, etc. They protest too much hence one begins to suspect that too much time has been given which helped their kids more than it should have.

And yet, the argument is always made in terms of take away the extra time for SN kids instead of give everyone more (or enough) time, so that the tests assess knowledge/ability rather than speed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.

Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.

LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess

Your child is not as smart as you believe he is. He’s a 33 ACT kid. He only got into a top 20 college because he got time and a half.

Talk about delusional. You’re cheating the system. Time and half would allow most 30+ ACT kids to score a perfect score. LOL

LOL really? Well if he is indeed a 33 ACT kid, I am pretty impressed by that given his disabilities. That is why we need to even the playing field. Amazing how jealous all of you are of our challenged kids. Just can't handle a kid on the spectrum who can outscore your kid. Sad.

I have no horse in this race, but I don’t think this is true. I think most would be fine if your kid scored higher than their kid, if their kid was given extra time. But, truly, these kids are not being measured the same way and I understand why parents are upset. Accommodations that do not benefit everyone if given are different. But time is something that would benefit most and it is not a true comparison when one student gets more time than another.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want employees who can do the job in the alotted time. I want to know who cant before I hire them.

Since SAT's aren't used in hiring, that's not really relevant.

Actually some companies have asked for these scores - with grade inflation etc they want to know but now either the abuse and accommodations, it will fall back to who you know.

Really? What major companies are doing that? If you are hiring a college grad, why would you care about 4-5 year old scores? If it’s someone who did not go to college, they may not even have an SAT score. I find this hard to believe and would love to see a source.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/job-hunting-dig-up-those-old-sat-scores-1393374186

Google is your friend

2014

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like I want to know how many kids you have at home that may cause issues when I'm hiring you, I want to know what kind of special accommodations you need to work for me.

A standing desk and a special chair? Done. Want to balance on a ball? Take two! If I give you a project that takes 3 others on your team 10 days to complete and you tell me you need 20... eh, not so much. Why would I hire someone who needs double the amount of time to complete one task? For the same salary I can find one who can do it in 10 days like the others.

I predict more self employment and entrepreneurship in the future, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. No way these ADHD kids to adults are going to make it in a normal 9-5 setting with strict deadlines.

I bet disclosing their special accommodations would dissuade parents from having their kids tank the screening tests to get the diagnosis. If I require you to send me you college transcript and I saw that you made a 4.0 at Yale but needed twice the time of the 3.5 kid from JMU, I'm passing on you.

First and last bolding: Illegal hiring practices.
Second bolding: A complete misunderstanding of LDs and how they work.
Second to last bolding: And yet, ADHD adults RIGHT now are in the workplace. And they have been for a couple or so decades of diagnoses and accommodations. And they are doing just fine.

Overall, you are wrong on just about every single count.

Again.. and somehow, these adults managed to do alright without adjustments to the SATs.

I don't know.. we hear a lot of people complaining about the younger millenials in the work place. Maybe they were given too much accommodations when they were younger and now as adults, they have a harder time dealing with life.

They were given accommodations, it just was not documented.

Teachers had more freedom... colleges didn't report average scores for US News rankings.

My husband went through life with ADHD without knowing it. Although he is now highly successful, it was truly a struggle for him in college. He went to an terrible public high school, and did fine there (because the school was not challenging). But he was admitted to a now top 10 university and did not fare so well. He was pre med. His biggest issue was organization and staying on task. He graduated from this school and because his grades were not so great did not get into the med school he wanted. He went on to get his masters in microbiology in a regional school. After a lot of hard work, he eventually got into a top med school did extremely well in academic medicine. He eventually left medicine for consulting, and it was there that he realized he might have ADHD and executive functioning challenges because the job required management skills. He has managed to compensate by learning executive functioning skills, but because he is gifted intellectually, he is extremely successful. Plenty of people with disabilities are doing even better than "normal" people. My husband is a perfect example.

That being said, if he had a diagnosis and accommodations in the earlier years, he probably would have done better in the university and gotten into med school sooner. It is not unfair to not provide people accommodations needed to help them thrive. AND you can't claim that people with disabilities will be failures in the "real world." It simply is not true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, you people are so angry...it is comical. So glad my ADHD kid got his deserved extra time that he needed and scored well on the ACT and got into his first choice top 20 school. As for what is done to curb the abuse, I doubt it will change much. Maybe be more careful about who gets accommodations. If you have a kid who struggled since elementary school, it is doubtful that kid is "gaming the system." I believe it is more suspect when kids suddenly in late middle school or in high school decide to get evaluated. Maybe just have more stringent requirements for evaluation for them.

But you will NEVER see the accommodations go away. Sorry, but you won't win this one...nice try though.

Sure it will. Your kid will have a hard time in a top 20 school bc of his SN.

LOL, I doubt that very much as he got a 36 on the act and had a 4.2 GPA -- extremely gifted. They also have accommodations in the top 20 school. And his processing speed has been improving, so maybe he won't need the accommodations. Nice try again. Jealous your kid only got in his safety I guess

Your child is not as smart as you believe he is. He’s a 33 ACT kid. He only got into a top 20 college because he got time and a half.

Talk about delusional. You’re cheating the system. Time and half would allow most 30+ ACT kids to score a perfect score. LOL

LOL really? Well if he is indeed a 33 ACT kid, I am pretty impressed by that given his disabilities. That is why we need to even the playing field. Amazing how jealous all of you are of our challenged kids. Just can't handle a kid on the spectrum who can outscore your kid. Sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I want employees who can do the job in the alotted time. I want to know who cant before I hire them.

Since SAT's aren't used in hiring, that's not really relevant.

Actually some companies have asked for these scores - with grade inflation etc they want to know but now either the abuse and accommodations, it will fall back to who you know.

Really? What major companies are doing that? If you are hiring a college grad, why would you care about 4-5 year old scores? If it’s someone who did not go to college, they may not even have an SAT score. I find this hard to believe and would love to see a source.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/job-hunting-dig-up-those-old-sat-scores-1393374186

Google is your friend

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just like I want to know how many kids you have at home that may cause issues when I'm hiring you, I want to know what kind of special accommodations you need to work for me.

A standing desk and a special chair? Done. Want to balance on a ball? Take two! If I give you a project that takes 3 others on your team 10 days to complete and you tell me you need 20... eh, not so much. Why would I hire someone who needs double the amount of time to complete one task? For the same salary I can find one who can do it in 10 days like the others.

I predict more self employment and entrepreneurship in the future, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. No way these ADHD kids to adults are going to make it in a normal 9-5 setting with strict deadlines.

I bet disclosing their special accommodations would dissuade parents from having their kids tank the screening tests to get the diagnosis. If I require you to send me you college transcript and I saw that you made a 4.0 at Yale but needed twice the time of the 3.5 kid from JMU, I'm passing on you.

First and last bolding: Illegal hiring practices.
Second bolding: A complete misunderstanding of LDs and how they work.
Second to last bolding: And yet, ADHD adults RIGHT now are in the workplace. And they have been for a couple or so decades of diagnoses and accommodations. And they are doing just fine.

Overall, you are wrong on just about every single count.

Again.. and somehow, these adults managed to do alright without adjustments to the SATs.

I don't know.. we hear a lot of people complaining about the younger millenials in the work place. Maybe they were given too much accommodations when they were younger and now as adults, they have a harder time dealing with life.

They were given accommodations, it just was not documented.

Teachers had more freedom... colleges didn't report average scores for US News rankings.