Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 08:56     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Go ahead and contact the county office and inquire about this statistic. This is about pursuing truth and reality. Sometimes it’s gonna hurt to know these things but you should still be aware before you go around trying to be a champion for a cause you are ill informed about.


If you know something to be a fact, then say it.

If you don't know, you're just spreading rumors that harm real children.


+1 PP doesn't seem to have any data on kids of color dropping out of magnet programs but wants to insinuate that Black and Latinx kids aren't "thriiving" in the programs. Well, I don't have data either, but anecdotally I can tell you that I've put two kids through the magnet program and, again anecdotally, white kids are MORE likely to drop out than kids of color. I can't tell you why that is, but I suspect that it has something to do with white parents assuming their kid will be "fine" no matter what, while parents of color are more likely to see the program as a unique opportunity that may not come back around.




Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 08:55     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?





Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.


I just don't get this -- so teachers encourage all kids in the class except the black and hispanic kids? Isn't information freely and easily accessible to all? Could it be that the parents are not encouraging this and seeking out information?

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

You can't say it's cost -- library is free. You can't say it's the inability to afford a car -- plenty are easily accessible by metro or bus. Sure, some may have parents who work on Saturdays, but that's probably the exceptional not standard case.

So whose fault is it that these kids aren't going to the library? I don't blame the library as there's not really need for outreach to advertise such a well-known and highly visible service.



+1000
Books are truly an invaluable resource. As a weekly visitor of the library I see this trend as well. If you want to be around more Asian and White kids, it’s the place to be. I’d like to see more AA and Hispanic families take advantage of this free and open access. They offer tons of programs during the school year as well as during the summer. This totally beats Chuckee Cheese.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 08:47     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:

Go ahead and contact the county office and inquire about this statistic. This is about pursuing truth and reality. Sometimes it’s gonna hurt to know these things but you should still be aware before you go around trying to be a champion for a cause you are ill informed about.


If you know something to be a fact, then say it.

If you don't know, you're just spreading rumors that harm real children.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 08:44     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Why do you assume that isn’t happening?

What we see now is that certain people start absolutely flipping out when AA and Hispanic kids start showing up at those opportunities. They decided particular schools and programs were for them only. When they see AA and Hispanic students they are sure that the students of color took a seat they didn’t earn or that MCPS must be watering down the program if the students of color did qualify.


Do you know the rate at which AA or Hispanics students drop out of MCPS magnet programs? They may “qualify” but do they thrive in these programs?


They don't "qualify." They qualify.

I hope that you don't go anywhere near magnet programs. Your idea that black or Latino students don't really belong there, and are only there because of their race or ethnicity, is poisonous.


Go ahead and contact the county office and inquire about this statistic. This is about pursuing truth and reality. Sometimes it’s gonna hurt to know these things but you should still be aware before you go around trying to be a champion for a cause you are ill informed about.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 07:01     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Why do you assume that isn’t happening?

What we see now is that certain people start absolutely flipping out when AA and Hispanic kids start showing up at those opportunities. They decided particular schools and programs were for them only. When they see AA and Hispanic students they are sure that the students of color took a seat they didn’t earn or that MCPS must be watering down the program if the students of color did qualify.


Do you know the rate at which AA or Hispanics students drop out of MCPS magnet programs? They may “qualify” but do they thrive in these programs?


They don't "qualify." They qualify.

I hope that you don't go anywhere near magnet programs. Your idea that black or Latino students don't really belong there, and are only there because of their race or ethnicity, is poisonous.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 06:59     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:

I just don't get this -- so teachers encourage all kids in the class except the black and hispanic kids? Isn't information freely and easily accessible to all? Could it be that the parents are not encouraging this and seeking out information?

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

You can't say it's cost -- library is free. You can't say it's the inability to afford a car -- plenty are easily accessible by metro or bus. Sure, some may have parents who work on Saturdays, but that's probably the exceptional not standard case.

So whose fault is it that these kids aren't going to the library? I don't blame the library as there's not really need for outreach to advertise such a well-known and highly visible service.


No.

But if you want to blame other people for not doing things the way they ought to be done (meaning: the way you do them), you'll have plenty of company, especially on DCUM.
Anonymous
Post 04/13/2019 00:24     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?





Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.


I just don't get this -- so teachers encourage all kids in the class except the black and hispanic kids? Isn't information freely and easily accessible to all? Could it be that the parents are not encouraging this and seeking out information?

Here's a perfect example -- my preschool-aged and early elementary DDs both love reading books and going to the library. We'll probably do it tomorrow, like we do on many Saturdays. We've been to many libraries all over MoCo, and every time we've gone, the kids section is mostly white and Asian kids. Where are the black and hispanic kids? Hispanics outnumber whites in MCPS, so I'd expect to see a lot of them at the library.

You can't say it's cost -- library is free. You can't say it's the inability to afford a car -- plenty are easily accessible by metro or bus. Sure, some may have parents who work on Saturdays, but that's probably the exceptional not standard case.

So whose fault is it that these kids aren't going to the library? I don't blame the library as there's not really need for outreach to advertise such a well-known and highly visible service.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 23:31     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?





Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.


Well then MCPS should focus on informing and encouraging AA and Hispanics to not have opportunity gap. I am not using children of color because many Asians are children of colors, but MCPS seems to bracket them with white.


Why do you assume that isn’t happening?

What we see now is that certain people start absolutely flipping out when AA and Hispanic kids start showing up at those opportunities. They decided particular schools and programs were for them only. When they see AA and Hispanic students they are sure that the students of color took a seat they didn’t earn or that MCPS must be watering down the program if the students of color did qualify.


Do you know the rate at which AA or Hispanics students drop out of MCPS magnet programs? They may “qualify” but do they thrive in these programs?
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 22:19     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?





Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.


Well then MCPS should focus on informing and encouraging AA and Hispanics to not have opportunity gap. I am not using children of color because many Asians are children of colors, but MCPS seems to bracket them with white.


Why do you assume that isn’t happening?

What we see now is that certain people start absolutely flipping out when AA and Hispanic kids start showing up at those opportunities. They decided particular schools and programs were for them only. When they see AA and Hispanic students they are sure that the students of color took a seat they didn’t earn or that MCPS must be watering down the program if the students of color did qualify.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 20:14     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The model does report White/Asian/Other non-FARMs at the top, and then compares that to the 5 FOCUS sub-groups which are AA non-FARMs, Hispanic non-FARMs, AA FARMs, Hispanic FARMs, and White/Asian/Other FARMs.

The number "score" is based on the percentage of students in that group that met EOL objectives. EOL is "Evidence of Learning" and a meets EOL objectives if they pass in 2/3 categories. The categories are: evaluation by classroom teacher (grades); evaluation by district measures (county-wide end of quarter tests); and evaluation by outside measures (standardized tests).

A student can "pass" the EOL evaluation by meeting standards in the classroom and on district-wide measures even if they fail the standardized test.

At least this is my understanding of how MCPS has set this up.


So MCPS now tries to press the schools to grade students based on different standards for different focus groups? I don't think there is anything can be done with the standardized tests. Maybe this is why MCPS only requires 2 out of the 3 measures for the Equity Accountability score. Is this even legal?


Thank goodness everyone gets an A or a B.

I think a jack smith is in to something here: the Achievement Gap will be nil very soon! Graduation rates will skyrocket, evidence of learning will proliferate, “academic progress” will be stellar, and “limited English proficiency” will be what it will be given the nonstop influx of illegals.


The district tests are ridiculous and they basically feed the student the answers. They are a complete waste of time.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 19:16     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?





Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.


Well then MCPS should focus on informing and encouraging AA and Hispanics to not have opportunity gap. I am not using children of color because many Asians are children of colors, but MCPS seems to bracket them with white.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 18:42     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?





Because it isn’t really an achievement gap so much as an opportunity gap. Lots of gifted and talented ES students of color are not being encouraged and mentored, or even informed of opportunities. That has not changed in the 16 years I’ve taught here or the twenty years I have had children of color enrolled in MCPS.
Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 18:31     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Why not try to elevate everyone by 10%? Every group will get better that way.

I understand that it won't narrow the achievement gap, but why are we focusing on achievement gap to start with.

Why not try to push the top group and the bottom group at the same time even if achievement gap remains the same?



Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 16:40     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
NP. What's wrong with lumping them (high income whites and South/East Asians) together in this context?

-Indian American parent


There is nothing wrong to lump anyone into groups as long as no real actions are done to hurt that group's interest.

Say, I can lump white and black together into a group called "blite" in my own study, which is not used toward anything.
There is nothing wrong with that.

But if MCPS uses my study to provide extra help to that group (or to other groups), then there could be a problem.

Anonymous
Post 04/12/2019 16:39     Subject: How does MCPS determine race/ethnicity?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/Equity-Accountability-Model-Achievement.html

Here, back test your ES, MS, HS test results from 2018z

I ran a few huge ESs (ashburton, wood acres) and HSs through (.
I don’t think MCPS is going to like the patterns that emerge. Unless they turn around and sue PARCC or MAP for racism.

And of course, what they aren’t doing is putting down the # of students per focus group or group.


With scores like what I saw popping up it looks like teachers are going to be under a lot of pressure to get FARMs and URMs testing well in math and English.

I’m not so sure this is a school or teacher problem to solve though. They are already doing a ton for these focus groups, way more than for other segments of students.


They are already under a ton of pressure to get poorly performing students suddenly performing well.
Has any country or U.S. district succeeded in this? Some KIPP and Seton schools have via church schools, discipline, tough behavior standards and high academic expectations. But those are charter or independent schools teaching FARMs.

As for ESOL kids from unskilled/uneducated economic migrants, that’s a big ball of yarn to unravel- cultural, expectations, social norms, family values, parenting roles, developed country vs undeveloped country structures, etc.