Anonymous wrote:Two very different schools.......large state school vs mid-size private. Personally I’d go wi5h whatever my child prefers but objectively Cornell is the better school.

Evidence?

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Anonymous wrote:To those ignoring the undergrad teaching ranking: it’s from a survey sent to university administrators asking them to list schools they think place a strong emphasis on undergrad teaching.

Cornell is 43; Michigan is 19.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/undergraduate-teaching-methodology

Georgia State University is ranked 2d in best undergrad teaching. So I assume you would clearly send your kid to GSU over Michigan, right?

My point is simply that Cornell isn’t unequivocally better than Michigan. I would absolutely send my kid to GA State if she wanted to go.

You would send your kid to a poorly ranked HBCU just to make a point???

Two very different schools.......large state school vs mid-size private. Personally I’d go wi5h whatever my child prefers but objectively Cornell is the better school.

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Anonymous wrote:To those ignoring the undergrad teaching ranking: it’s from a survey sent to university administrators asking them to list schools they think place a strong emphasis on undergrad teaching.

Cornell is 43; Michigan is 19.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/undergraduate-teaching-methodology

Georgia State University is ranked 2d in best undergrad teaching. So I assume you would clearly send your kid to GSU over Michigan, right?

Did the OP mention her DC was considering Georgia State? or Stanford or UVA for that matter? I understood the DC to be picking between Cornell and Michigan.

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Anonymous wrote:I guess you are paying out of state for Michigan. So the cost difference is not that much.

I will go with Cornell if she is undecided.

UMich is full of out-of-state kids who TOTALLY got into similarly-priced Cornell, Penn and Brown, but preferred the vibe of Ann Arbor. Totally.

If the vibe of Michigan is important, sure, go to Michigan. Keep in mind, more than half of the students there get the same vibe for 1/3 of the cost.

But if the kid is undecided, you would get more for your $ at Cornell. Michigan has 30,000 undergraduate, while Cornell only has 15,000. One is a private and the other is a public. Cornell is an Ivy and always ranks higher than Michigan.

Hmm, always? You sure about that?

Michigan is #19 in undergrad teaching on USNWR
Cornell is #41

When you say public vs private what’s the implication? Endowment? Because Michigan’s is $12B while Cornell’s is $7B. Roughly the same per student money, since Michigan is twice as big.

Michigan has the 6th best undergrad engineering program; Cornell is #9

I could go on, but let’s at least acknowledge that public means nothing and Cornell by no means always outranks Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges

Obviously the ranking meant the widely accepted US News Best college ranking. Cornell always rank higher than Michigan on this list.

Cornell #16

UVA #25

Michigan #27

Private school generally has better faculty student ratio, more responsive career services, smaller class size, easier course selections, better dorms, etc. than a public.

Ah yes, ignoring data that doesn’t support your argument. Classy!

You realize Michigan has one of the most powerful alumni networks in the world, right?

Michigan booster, it's you who are ignoring the data. Michigan is a fine school. But if I have to pay the same cost, outside of engineering, I wouldn't even pick Michigan over UVA. For one, Michigan has 30,000 undergrad while UVA has only 16,000, almost the same size as Cornell. You may like that big 10 vibe, but many others prefer a smaller size school.

What data am I ignoring?

Your preference for a smaller school doesn’t make Michigan inferior. I also have news for you: out of hundreds of schools, 16 and 27 are statistically equivalent.

If 16 and 27 (11 spots apart) are statistically equivalent then I assume you would agree that 16 and 7 (9 spots apart) are equivalent. So do you agree that Cornell is equivalent to Stanford?

Yes I do.

And is Michigan (#27) equivalent to Stanford? What about Wake Forest (#27)?

Before you go on, let me blow your mind: I think the top 100 USNWR colleges are roughly equivalent in the quality of education. It comes down to personal preference.

Thank you. That helps to put your statements in context.

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Anonymous wrote:I guess you are paying out of state for Michigan. So the cost difference is not that much.

I will go with Cornell if she is undecided.

UMich is full of out-of-state kids who TOTALLY got into similarly-priced Cornell, Penn and Brown, but preferred the vibe of Ann Arbor. Totally.

If the vibe of Michigan is important, sure, go to Michigan. Keep in mind, more than half of the students there get the same vibe for 1/3 of the cost.

But if the kid is undecided, you would get more for your $ at Cornell. Michigan has 30,000 undergraduate, while Cornell only has 15,000. One is a private and the other is a public. Cornell is an Ivy and always ranks higher than Michigan.

Hmm, always? You sure about that?

Michigan is #19 in undergrad teaching on USNWR
Cornell is #41

When you say public vs private what’s the implication? Endowment? Because Michigan’s is $12B while Cornell’s is $7B. Roughly the same per student money, since Michigan is twice as big.

Michigan has the 6th best undergrad engineering program; Cornell is #9

I could go on, but let’s at least acknowledge that public means nothing and Cornell by no means always outranks Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges

Obviously the ranking meant the widely accepted US News Best college ranking. Cornell always rank higher than Michigan on this list.

Cornell #16

UVA #25

Michigan #27

Private school generally has better faculty student ratio, more responsive career services, smaller class size, easier course selections, better dorms, etc. than a public.

Ah yes, ignoring data that doesn’t support your argument. Classy!

You realize Michigan has one of the most powerful alumni networks in the world, right?

Michigan booster, it's you who are ignoring the data. Michigan is a fine school. But if I have to pay the same cost, outside of engineering, I wouldn't even pick Michigan over UVA. For one, Michigan has 30,000 undergrad while UVA has only 16,000, almost the same size as Cornell. You may like that big 10 vibe, but many others prefer a smaller size school.

What data am I ignoring?

Your preference for a smaller school doesn’t make Michigan inferior. I also have news for you: out of hundreds of schools, 16 and 27 are statistically equivalent.

If 16 and 27 (11 spots apart) are statistically equivalent then I assume you would agree that 16 and 7 (9 spots apart) are equivalent. So do you agree that Cornell is equivalent to Stanford?

Yes I do.

And is Michigan (#27) equivalent to Stanford? What about Wake Forest (#27)?

Before you go on, let me blow your mind: I think the top 100 USNWR colleges are roughly equivalent in the quality of education. It comes down to personal preference.

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Anonymous wrote:To those ignoring the undergrad teaching ranking: it’s from a survey sent to university administrators asking them to list schools they think place a strong emphasis on undergrad teaching.

Cornell is 43; Michigan is 19.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/undergraduate-teaching-methodology

Georgia State University is ranked 2d in best undergrad teaching. So I assume you would clearly send your kid to GSU over Michigan, right?

My point is simply that Cornell isn’t unequivocally better than Michigan. I would absolutely send my kid to GA State if she wanted to go.

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Anonymous wrote:I guess you are paying out of state for Michigan. So the cost difference is not that much.

I will go with Cornell if she is undecided.

UMich is full of out-of-state kids who TOTALLY got into similarly-priced Cornell, Penn and Brown, but preferred the vibe of Ann Arbor. Totally.

If the vibe of Michigan is important, sure, go to Michigan. Keep in mind, more than half of the students there get the same vibe for 1/3 of the cost.

But if the kid is undecided, you would get more for your $ at Cornell. Michigan has 30,000 undergraduate, while Cornell only has 15,000. One is a private and the other is a public. Cornell is an Ivy and always ranks higher than Michigan.

Hmm, always? You sure about that?

Michigan is #19 in undergrad teaching on USNWR
Cornell is #41

When you say public vs private what’s the implication? Endowment? Because Michigan’s is $12B while Cornell’s is $7B. Roughly the same per student money, since Michigan is twice as big.

Michigan has the 6th best undergrad engineering program; Cornell is #9

I could go on, but let’s at least acknowledge that public means nothing and Cornell by no means always outranks Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges

Obviously the ranking meant the widely accepted US News Best college ranking. Cornell always rank higher than Michigan on this list.

Cornell #16

UVA #25

Michigan #27

Private school generally has better faculty student ratio, more responsive career services, smaller class size, easier course selections, better dorms, etc. than a public.

Ah yes, ignoring data that doesn’t support your argument. Classy!

You realize Michigan has one of the most powerful alumni networks in the world, right?

Michigan booster, it's you who are ignoring the data. Michigan is a fine school. But if I have to pay the same cost, outside of engineering, I wouldn't even pick Michigan over UVA. For one, Michigan has 30,000 undergrad while UVA has only 16,000, almost the same size as Cornell. You may like that big 10 vibe, but many others prefer a smaller size school.

What data am I ignoring?

Your preference for a smaller school doesn’t make Michigan inferior. I also have news for you: out of hundreds of schools, 16 and 27 are statistically equivalent.

If 16 and 27 (11 spots apart) are statistically equivalent then I assume you would agree that 16 and 7 (9 spots apart) are equivalent. So do you agree that Cornell is equivalent to Stanford?

Yes I do.

And is Michigan (#27) equivalent to Stanford? What about Wake Forest (#27)?

Anonymous wrote:To those ignoring the undergrad teaching ranking: it’s from a survey sent to university administrators asking them to list schools they think place a strong emphasis on undergrad teaching.

Cornell is 43; Michigan is 19.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/undergraduate-teaching-methodology

Georgia State University is ranked 2d in best undergrad teaching. So I assume you would clearly send your kid to GSU over Michigan, right?

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Anonymous wrote:I guess you are paying out of state for Michigan. So the cost difference is not that much.

I will go with Cornell if she is undecided.

UMich is full of out-of-state kids who TOTALLY got into similarly-priced Cornell, Penn and Brown, but preferred the vibe of Ann Arbor. Totally.

If the vibe of Michigan is important, sure, go to Michigan. Keep in mind, more than half of the students there get the same vibe for 1/3 of the cost.

But if the kid is undecided, you would get more for your $ at Cornell. Michigan has 30,000 undergraduate, while Cornell only has 15,000. One is a private and the other is a public. Cornell is an Ivy and always ranks higher than Michigan.

Hmm, always? You sure about that?

Michigan is #19 in undergrad teaching on USNWR
Cornell is #41

When you say public vs private what’s the implication? Endowment? Because Michigan’s is $12B while Cornell’s is $7B. Roughly the same per student money, since Michigan is twice as big.

Michigan has the 6th best undergrad engineering program; Cornell is #9

I could go on, but let’s at least acknowledge that public means nothing and Cornell by no means always outranks Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges

Obviously the ranking meant the widely accepted US News Best college ranking. Cornell always rank higher than Michigan on this list.

Cornell #16

UVA #25

Michigan #27

Private school generally has better faculty student ratio, more responsive career services, smaller class size, easier course selections, better dorms, etc. than a public.

Ah yes, ignoring data that doesn’t support your argument. Classy!

You realize Michigan has one of the most powerful alumni networks in the world, right?

Michigan booster, it's you who are ignoring the data. Michigan is a fine school. But if I have to pay the same cost, outside of engineering, I wouldn't even pick Michigan over UVA. For one, Michigan has 30,000 undergrad while UVA has only 16,000, almost the same size as Cornell. You may like that big 10 vibe, but many others prefer a smaller size school.

What data am I ignoring?

Your preference for a smaller school doesn’t make Michigan inferior. I also have news for you: out of hundreds of schools, 16 and 27 are statistically equivalent.

If 16 and 27 (11 spots apart) are statistically equivalent then I assume you would agree that 16 and 7 (9 spots apart) are equivalent. So do you agree that Cornell is equivalent to Stanford?

Yes I do.

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Anonymous wrote:I guess you are paying out of state for Michigan. So the cost difference is not that much.

I will go with Cornell if she is undecided.

UMich is full of out-of-state kids who TOTALLY got into similarly-priced Cornell, Penn and Brown, but preferred the vibe of Ann Arbor. Totally.

If the vibe of Michigan is important, sure, go to Michigan. Keep in mind, more than half of the students there get the same vibe for 1/3 of the cost.

But if the kid is undecided, you would get more for your $ at Cornell. Michigan has 30,000 undergraduate, while Cornell only has 15,000. One is a private and the other is a public. Cornell is an Ivy and always ranks higher than Michigan.

Hmm, always? You sure about that?

Michigan is #19 in undergrad teaching on USNWR
Cornell is #41

When you say public vs private what’s the implication? Endowment? Because Michigan’s is $12B while Cornell’s is $7B. Roughly the same per student money, since Michigan is twice as big.

Michigan has the 6th best undergrad engineering program; Cornell is #9

I could go on, but let’s at least acknowledge that public means nothing and Cornell by no means always outranks Michigan.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges

Obviously the ranking meant the widely accepted US News Best college ranking. Cornell always rank higher than Michigan on this list.

Cornell #16

UVA #25

Michigan #27

Private school generally has better faculty student ratio, more responsive career services, smaller class size, easier course selections, better dorms, etc. than a public.

Ah yes, ignoring data that doesn’t support your argument. Classy!

You realize Michigan has one of the most powerful alumni networks in the world, right?

Michigan booster, it's you who are ignoring the data. Michigan is a fine school. But if I have to pay the same cost, outside of engineering, I wouldn't even pick Michigan over UVA. For one, Michigan has 30,000 undergrad while UVA has only 16,000, almost the same size as Cornell. You may like that big 10 vibe, but many others prefer a smaller size school.

What data am I ignoring?

Your preference for a smaller school doesn’t make Michigan inferior. I also have news for you: out of hundreds of schools, 16 and 27 are statistically equivalent.

If 16 and 27 (11 spots apart) are statistically equivalent then I assume you would agree that 16 and 7 (9 spots apart) are equivalent. So do you agree that Cornell is equivalent to Stanford?

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Anonymous wrote:My employee w an undergrad from UMich is so much better than the ex-employee w a grad degree from Columbia. Much better critical thinking skills.

Great story.

Maybe they could use their critical thinking skills to explain to you why anecdotes aren’t data.

NP. Meh. Anecdotes are pretty common when making hiring decisions.

The people who would take the word of an anonymous poster on the Internet aren’t the employers people want.

I don't think anyone is going to make their college decision solely off an anonymous post on a parenting message board. It is still good information, though, and it's important to realize that OMG IVY LEAGUE!!!! YOU'RE HIRED!!!! thing just isn't how it works in the real world.

Ha ha! I am the poster about the employee and it is true. Wish it wasn’t true but the UMich employee did run circles around the Columbia grad and even corrected Columbia MBA grad’s work.

For OP, it is the IVY name that is making it difficult to make the decision. Ask yourself why. Is it bragging rights?
For OP’s DC - if you truly can’t decide, what do you feel about transferring?

Why do you wish it wasn’t true?

Because I had high expectations for the Col7mbia grad and the position was to help move the department’s projects forward. After letting grad go, I restructured department and promoted UMich employee. Just means our department’s projects and what we need to do is behind schedule.

Where did the Columbia MBA go for undergrad? Ivy?

To those ignoring the undergrad teaching ranking: it’s from a survey sent to university administrators asking them to list schools they think place a strong emphasis on undergrad teaching.

Cornell is 43; Michigan is 19.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/undergraduate-teaching-methodology

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Anonymous wrote:My employee w an undergrad from UMich is so much better than the ex-employee w a grad degree from Columbia. Much better critical thinking skills.

Great story.

Maybe they could use their critical thinking skills to explain to you why anecdotes aren’t data.

Anonymous wrote:NP, Michigan has the residential college, which can provide a ver intimate experience. Students live and take classes in the same building. You can make Mich intimate if you want so I wouldn’t worry about the size of the student body.

Same with the honors program. DC did honors at Michigan and it was about 450 freshman. Most lived in the same dorm, which was a popular dorm on central campus (it also housed many of the athletes). There were some honors only classes, and honors advisors, so it definitely made the school feel smaller. DC never had a problem with the size anyway, and not sure there's that big a difference between 15k and 30k students - it's not like 15k is SLAC sized. Once you get over 5000 students you are at a big school period.