Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:14
Subject: Re:Anybody listening to NPR?
I wish merit-based tracking in every school starting in 2nd grade, with free tutoring for FARMS students, was on the table. Then we can diversify the schools as much as needed, have equal access to higher level curriculums needed in the knowledge-based portion of our economy, and maintain steady real estate prices necessary to maintain a tax base supporting all the students.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:12
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why is making the neighborhood more diverse a school issue?
If the neighborhood remains the same, just having a diverse school by taking more minorities from the outside, does that make the neighborhood more diverse?
Making the school more diverse is a school issue.
The PP was talking about neighborhood issues.
If your neighborhood is diverse but school is not, unless it is a merit based school, that does become a school issue.
If your neighborhood itself is not diverse, and you want to correct previous wrong doings that resulted in that, that is not a school issue.
Similarly, if the school is not diverse, that is a school issue.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:06
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why is making the neighborhood more diverse a school issue?
If the neighborhood remains the same, just having a diverse school by taking more minorities from the outside, does that make the neighborhood more diverse?
Making the school more diverse is a school issue.
The PP was talking about neighborhood issues.
If your neighborhood is diverse but school is not, unless it is a merit based school, that does become a school issue.
If your neighborhood itself is not diverse, and you want to correct previous wrong doings that resulted in that, that is not a school issue.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:03
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why can’t she change schools? Are majority black schools overcrowded? They won’t take her?
Why shouls she change school? The y should bus mire black students into Whitman to support her and shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
They should shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
But why should they bus more black students to Whitman? Creating diversity just for the purpose of diversity?
My view on this is clear: a school reflects the neighborhood. If the neighborhood itself is not diverse, there is no reason to make the school diverse. That's not the way to do it.
If you want to encourage people of diverse background to move into the neighborhood, that is fine.
Except for the fact many of these neighborhoods aren't diverse because of policies like red-lining and other Jim Crowe shenanigans that are illegal today and failing to address these wrongs of the past only prolongs these issues.
This. Schools should attempt to diversify their student populations, given this history of discriminatory policies. Also, research has pointed out the many positive and practical benefits of diversity, so it's not simply diversity for the sake of diversity.
Do no agree. School takes students, and should not do anything to make the student population more or less diverse. Regular schools should treat all kids in the neighborhood the same. Special schools should be merit based.
If you really want diversity, work on changing the neighborhood, instead of the school that receives students from the neighborhood (of course, unless if the school has discriminating policies).
Diversity is something that should not be achieved by the receiving party.
Just curious, why are you so against public schools taking measures to achieve diversity?
I have no problem with achieving diversity anywhere - not enthusiastic but do not have a problem with others wanting that.
I am against the wrong approach, not the goal. When I hear people proposing something which I think is wrong, but they justify it because the goal is good, I don't like that.
PP again. Do you agree that achieving at least some measure of diversity at schools is a good thing? The girl in the Kojo Nnamdi discussion said that she was one of only two--TWO--minorities in most of her classes. She said people joked on Instagram that they had a Black History Month assembly, but they have no black students at the school. If that percentage of minority students were increased a bit, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Also, why is increasing diversity at schools simply "wrong?" You state it's wrong, but don't explain why.
I think I explained in my other posts. Increasing diversity in a school is a goal. It is not wrong. How you do it can be right or wrong.
Penalizing those with racist behaviors, that is the right approach.
Busing in black students from other schools, that, I consider a wrong approach. You don't break the rules just for achieving diversity.
We are going in circles. You keep repeating that it's wrong. Again, WHY do you consider this to be the wrong approach? If it's allowed in some jurisdictions, there are no rules to break. So again, why is this wrong.
Also, it's noted that you've changed the goal posts. In your prior posts, you said that any efforts to increase diversity should focus on neighborhoods, not schools. Now, you're saying you support increasing diversity in schools, but just not via busing.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:03
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If students originally belong to other schools, then they should not be sent to your school for no apparent reasons. "Achieving diversity in my school" is a good motivation but not a good reason (for doing so).
A good approach (not necessarily the effect one) would be advocate your school to the surrounding neighborhood and try to attract an in-flow of people from diverse background.
Who says that students "belong" to this school vs. that school?
You seem to agree that segregated neighborhoods are not a good thing. Why do you think that segregated neighborhoods are bad but segregated schools are fine?
If you believe the neighborhood is segregated due to various reasons - solve that.
I do not have a problem with the current school system that schools take students in the surrounding area. Fine-tuning the school zones are fine with me. Taking a significant number of students from clearly outside regions, is not fine.
Schools are not tools for people to solve "segregated neighborhood".
Why not?
And why aren't schools tools for people to solve segregated schools?
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:03
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The whole thing sounds like a giant social experiment. One that will cost a lot, and not just in dollars We keep hearing how this will benefit low-income students, and close the opportunity gap. They've been trying things to close the opportunity gap for decades, and nothing has worked. While I do support programs to help close the opportunity gap, I believe our Title One schools and Focus schools, already have extra money, smaller class size and extra programs, what will it do for everyone else? Will it help them to rise, or bring them down? Show me the data please!
I’ve worked in k-12 philanthropy and now policy think tank.
Even gates foundation is far from cutting edge.
To date the only thing we have seen be effective at increasing academic performance, lowering truancy, reducing behavior issues, and minimizing possible effects of possible teacher/admin racial biases has been parochial school programs like KIPP, Seton, etc. Also study the ones in England inundated with refugees.
The students wear uniforms, teachers hold the same high bar for everyone, two teachers per class for Pk-2, differentiation and pullout groups for grades 2+, discipline for breaking serious class rules, some higher order or religious tenets instilled.
If I were a poor Hispanic or poor black I would seek this out. Or if I were an activist or social worker I would advise this and seek this out. The public school arena, particular a large county run one, will not be effective to its various segments.
Know why KIPP and privates have good results? They can kick out the troublemakers that disturb the educations of other students. Guess where the troublemakers wind up? Back in public, where it’s much harder to discipline them. My husband works at a low income private school. These kids are GOOD, but they weed out the bad ones very early. All of the seniors were accepted to universities.
This may be controversial, but some students need to skip traditional high school and learn a trade. Yesterday I spoke with my dad, who graduated from high school in the 70s and never went to college. He was saying that he could have skipped high school altogether because he didn’t learn anything. Granted, he was a troublemaker, but why waste the time of teachers, students, and parents?
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:02
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
If students originally belong to other schools, then they should not be sent to your school for no apparent reasons. "Achieving diversity in my school" is a good motivation but not a good reason (for doing so).
A good approach (not necessarily the effect one) would be advocate your school to the surrounding neighborhood and try to attract an in-flow of people from diverse background.
Who says that students "belong" to this school vs. that school?
You seem to agree that segregated neighborhoods are not a good thing. Why do you think that segregated neighborhoods are bad but segregated schools are fine?
If you believe the neighborhood is segregated due to various reasons - solve that.
I do not have a problem with the current school system that schools take students in the surrounding area. Fine-tuning the school zones are fine with me. Taking a significant number of students from clearly outside regions, is not fine.
Schools are not tools for people to solve "segregated neighborhood".
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:01
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:
Why is making the neighborhood more diverse a school issue?
If the neighborhood remains the same, just having a diverse school by taking more minorities from the outside, does that make the neighborhood more diverse?
Making the school more diverse is a school issue.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 10:00
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:
I think I explained in my other posts. Increasing diversity in a school is a goal. It is not wrong. How you do it can be right or wrong.
Penalizing those with racist behaviors, that is the right approach.
Busing in black students from other schools, that, I consider a wrong approach. You don't break the rules just for achieving diversity.
The rules are what the BoE decides for its attendance policies and regulations (within the bounds of federal and state law). If the BoE puts policies in place that expand the service area or allow out-of-bounds students to attend, that's not breaking the rules. The BoE makes the rules.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 09:59
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why can’t she change schools? Are majority black schools overcrowded? They won’t take her?
Why shouls she change school? The y should bus mire black students into Whitman to support her and shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
They should shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
But why should they bus more black students to Whitman? Creating diversity just for the purpose of diversity?
My view on this is clear: a school reflects the neighborhood. If the neighborhood itself is not diverse, there is no reason to make the school diverse. That's not the way to do it.
If you want to encourage people of diverse background to move into the neighborhood, that is fine.
Except for the fact many of these neighborhoods aren't diverse because of policies like red-lining and other Jim Crowe shenanigans that are illegal today and failing to address these wrongs of the past only prolongs these issues.
Even if these are true - it is still not a school issue. Don't deal with these using our school system.
It is as simple as that.
Why isn't it?
Why is it?
If you think the neighborhood is not diverse enough, deal with that. Busing in students from outside the neighborhood does not solve that problem. The neighborhood remains the same.
No, no. You said it's not a school issue. Why isn't it?
Why is making the neighborhood more diverse a school issue?
If the neighborhood remains the same, just having a diverse school by taking more minorities from the outside, does that make the neighborhood more diverse?
Anonymous
03/01/2019 09:58
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:
If students originally belong to other schools, then they should not be sent to your school for no apparent reasons. "Achieving diversity in my school" is a good motivation but not a good reason (for doing so).
A good approach (not necessarily the effect one) would be advocate your school to the surrounding neighborhood and try to attract an in-flow of people from diverse background.
Who says that students "belong" to this school vs. that school?
You seem to agree that segregated neighborhoods are not a good thing. Why do you think that segregated neighborhoods are bad but segregated schools are fine?
Anonymous
03/01/2019 09:58
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why can’t she change schools? Are majority black schools overcrowded? They won’t take her?
Why shouls she change school? The y should bus mire black students into Whitman to support her and shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
They should shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
But why should they bus more black students to Whitman? Creating diversity just for the purpose of diversity?
My view on this is clear: a school reflects the neighborhood. If the neighborhood itself is not diverse, there is no reason to make the school diverse. That's not the way to do it.
If you want to encourage people of diverse background to move into the neighborhood, that is fine.
Except for the fact many of these neighborhoods aren't diverse because of policies like red-lining and other Jim Crowe shenanigans that are illegal today and failing to address these wrongs of the past only prolongs these issues.
This. Schools should attempt to diversify their student populations, given this history of discriminatory policies. Also, research has pointed out the many positive and practical benefits of diversity, so it's not simply diversity for the sake of diversity.
Do no agree. School takes students, and should not do anything to make the student population more or less diverse. Regular schools should treat all kids in the neighborhood the same. Special schools should be merit based.
If you really want diversity, work on changing the neighborhood, instead of the school that receives students from the neighborhood (of course, unless if the school has discriminating policies).
Diversity is something that should not be achieved by the receiving party.
Just curious, why are you so against public schools taking measures to achieve diversity?
I have no problem with achieving diversity anywhere - not enthusiastic but do not have a problem with others wanting that.
I am against the wrong approach, not the goal. When I hear people proposing something which I think is wrong, but they justify it because the goal is good, I don't like that.
PP again. Do you agree that achieving at least some measure of diversity at schools is a good thing? The girl in the Kojo Nnamdi discussion said that she was one of only two--TWO--minorities in most of her classes. She said people joked on Instagram that they had a Black History Month assembly, but they have no black students at the school. If that percentage of minority students were increased a bit, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Also, why is increasing diversity at schools simply "wrong?" You state it's wrong, but don't explain why.
I think I explained in my other posts. Increasing diversity in a school is a goal. It is not wrong. How you do it can be right or wrong.
Penalizing those with racist behaviors, that is the right approach.
Busing in black students from other schools, that, I consider a wrong approach. You don't break the rules just for achieving diversity.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 09:55
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Just curious, why are you so against public schools taking measures to achieve diversity?
I have no problem with achieving diversity anywhere - not enthusiastic but do not have a problem with others wanting that.
I am against the wrong approach, not the goal. When I hear people proposing something which I think is wrong, but they justify it because the goal is good, I don't like that.
Why is it the wrong approach?
If students originally belong to other schools, then they should not be sent to your school for no apparent reasons. "Achieving diversity in my school" is a good motivation but not a good reason (for doing so).
A good approach (not necessarily the effect one) would be advocate your school to the surrounding neighborhood and try to attract an in-flow of people from diverse background.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 09:50
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why can’t she change schools? Are majority black schools overcrowded? They won’t take her?
Why shouls she change school? The y should bus mire black students into Whitman to support her and shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
They should shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
But why should they bus more black students to Whitman? Creating diversity just for the purpose of diversity?
My view on this is clear: a school reflects the neighborhood. If the neighborhood itself is not diverse, there is no reason to make the school diverse. That's not the way to do it.
If you want to encourage people of diverse background to move into the neighborhood, that is fine.
Except for the fact many of these neighborhoods aren't diverse because of policies like red-lining and other Jim Crowe shenanigans that are illegal today and failing to address these wrongs of the past only prolongs these issues.
This. Schools should attempt to diversify their student populations, given this history of discriminatory policies. Also, research has pointed out the many positive and practical benefits of diversity, so it's not simply diversity for the sake of diversity.
Do no agree. School takes students, and should not do anything to make the student population more or less diverse. Regular schools should treat all kids in the neighborhood the same. Special schools should be merit based.
If you really want diversity, work on changing the neighborhood, instead of the school that receives students from the neighborhood (of course, unless if the school has discriminating policies).
Diversity is something that should not be achieved by the receiving party.
Just curious, why are you so against public schools taking measures to achieve diversity?
I have no problem with achieving diversity anywhere - not enthusiastic but do not have a problem with others wanting that.
I am against the wrong approach, not the goal. When I hear people proposing something which I think is wrong, but they justify it because the goal is good, I don't like that.
PP again. Do you agree that achieving at least some measure of diversity at schools is a good thing? The girl in the Kojo Nnamdi discussion said that she was one of only two--TWO--minorities in most of her classes. She said people joked on Instagram that they had a Black History Month assembly, but they have no black students at the school. If that percentage of minority students were increased a bit, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Also, why is increasing diversity at schools simply "wrong?" You state it's wrong, but don't explain why.
Anonymous
03/01/2019 09:49
Subject: Anybody listening to NPR?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why can’t she change schools? Are majority black schools overcrowded? They won’t take her?
Why shouls she change school? The y should bus mire black students into Whitman to support her and shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
They should shut off the racists in the school if it was true.
But why should they bus more black students to Whitman? Creating diversity just for the purpose of diversity?
My view on this is clear: a school reflects the neighborhood. If the neighborhood itself is not diverse, there is no reason to make the school diverse. That's not the way to do it.
If you want to encourage people of diverse background to move into the neighborhood, that is fine.
Except for the fact many of these neighborhoods aren't diverse because of policies like red-lining and other Jim Crowe shenanigans that are illegal today and failing to address these wrongs of the past only prolongs these issues.
Even if these are true - it is still not a school issue. Don't deal with these using our school system.
It is as simple as that.
Why isn't it?
Why is it?
If you think the neighborhood is not diverse enough, deal with that. Busing in students from outside the neighborhood does not solve that problem. The neighborhood remains the same.
No, no. You said it's not a school issue. Why isn't it?