Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

This has been shown in rat brains but people aren't rats.

What has been shown? That rats taking doses equivalent to human therapeutic doses have observable neurological impairments?

For example: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/17/21/8491

The rats were given higher doses than equivalent therapeutical doses in humans, so this study is more about drug abuse than ADHD treatment.

These are low doses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14686913

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

This has been shown in rat brains but people aren't rats.

What has been shown? That rats taking doses equivalent to human therapeutic doses have observable neurological impairments?

For example: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/17/21/8491

The rats were given higher doses than equivalent therapeutical doses in humans, so this study is more about drug abuse than ADHD treatment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

This has been shown in rat brains but people aren't rats.

What has been shown? That rats taking doses equivalent to human therapeutic doses have observable neurological impairments?

For example: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/17/21/8491

I thought that the first half of this thread was one of the most helpful and interesting I’ve read on scum. Care to reveal your background?

The Scientologists are back, people! There is so much misinformation on this thread, its sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

It was worse for those on stimulants. Not sure how well non-stimulant ADHD kids and stimulant were matched. Both ganied weight, but the ones on stimulants did at a much higher rate. It makes sense. If you eat less on stimulants eventually your metabolism probably becomes slow as molasses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

This has been shown in rat brains but people aren't rats.

What has been shown? That rats taking doses equivalent to human therapeutic doses have observable neurological impairments?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

This has been shown in rat brains but people aren't rats.

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

The problem with this kind of study is that the more severely effected kids are more likely to take medication. Is the obesity effect from the medication or due to poorer impulse control they would have had anyway?

Personally, I am more worried about neurological damage that could not be attributed to ADHD itself or an existing comorbidity.

Anonymous wrote:Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

It makes sense that there is a “rebound” weight gain. People with ADHD also are more likely to be overweight anyway, because of abnormal dopamine and less control over eating.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5247534/

Looks like there may be a higher risk of obesity with long term stimulant use....

https://newsatjama.jama.com/2014/03/17/long-term-stimulant-use-may-boost-obesity-in-children-with-adhd/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to see the thread become pro or anti medication, especially when so many of us have our tipping point where the potential benefits of medication outweigh unknown, longer term risks.

It's not an easy decision to medicate, and as a parent who has not (yet) gone down the road of medication- well, when I see my son struggle sometimes, that isn't easy either, and I do wonder if I'm making the right decision. We revisit it every six months.

What we do know are the serious risks of depression, anxiety, school failure, social exclusion, etc.

There are many medications that we take because they literally save our lives or our sanity that also carry risks- SSRIs, anticholinergics, even antibiotics have some risks/associations.

Not trying to jump on a soap box, but I like the reasoned discourse over meds because it can be a difficult choice and we beat ourselves up enough, I think.

Yes, and there are parents who chose to medicate so their average kid can be a star and there may be a chance the risks outweigh benefits. There are also kids buying this stuff from other kids. If your child is in the category where it literally saves their life or they would be getting into car crashes and having impulse control issues galore then of course you medicate. Yes, we need to keep discussing this. Doctors will flippantly say it's the safest choice and for some it just isn't. Sorry if the discussion upsets you, but we have been told over the years all sorts of things were safe and eventually we found out they weren't (certain pesticides, meds, plastics).

No one medicates their child so that they can be a "star". It is a really tough decision, something parents will struggle with throughout their child's life.

pp here- I'm not upset about the conversation and agree that we need to discuss medication and that there are meds that were previously considered safe but now are not (see my post)- but some of what you are saying is anecdotal and perhaps true in some cases, although I'm going to agree that medicating so a child can be a *star* is hopefully, rare.
I was enjoying some of the scientific articles, studies, etc. - as I said "reasoned discourse" based on science. I have specific concerns about stimulants based on what we've been discovering about other meds- but they might be unfounded.

The medications have been used for about 60 years now. Even though there weren't many who got it at the beginning, by the 90s, large numbers of kids were being treated. Those kids are now young adults. I haven't seen or heard of any reports of significant dysfunction in those adults that isn't accounted for by their existing ADHD.

On the other hand, I've spoken to doctors about other medications that turned out to cause problems after they were introduced. They.said doctors themselves noticed and reported problems, even in the face of denials from the drug companies.

So I think if there were a major long term risk, we would have seen something by now.

I have heard stories about those adults. All anecdotal of course, but the stories I heard were for some they reached the highest dose allowed and it was not enough and they could not get off. They performed well through college, but are having trouble with adult life. This is a small sample size of course, but if you have seen any large sample studies of these adults please share a link.

Also know of a case where there is no family history of obesity and the mom swears the ritalin made her kid super thin through college and then triggered obesity later on. We all know this could be anything including depression, but the psychiatrist told her he has seen it before and there is a chance there could be a link. Again anecdotal sample size so small, but we just don't really know as a whole how these 20 somethings and 30s somethings medicated since childhood on stimulants are holding up once trie adulthood hits and they have developed some tolerance to the meds.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to see the thread become pro or anti medication, especially when so many of us have our tipping point where the potential benefits of medication outweigh unknown, longer term risks.

It's not an easy decision to medicate, and as a parent who has not (yet) gone down the road of medication- well, when I see my son struggle sometimes, that isn't easy either, and I do wonder if I'm making the right decision. We revisit it every six months.

What we do know are the serious risks of depression, anxiety, school failure, social exclusion, etc.

There are many medications that we take because they literally save our lives or our sanity that also carry risks- SSRIs, anticholinergics, even antibiotics have some risks/associations.

Not trying to jump on a soap box, but I like the reasoned discourse over meds because it can be a difficult choice and we beat ourselves up enough, I think.

Yes, and there are parents who chose to medicate so their average kid can be a star and there may be a chance the risks outweigh benefits. There are also kids buying this stuff from other kids. If your child is in the category where it literally saves their life or they would be getting into car crashes and having impulse control issues galore then of course you medicate. Yes, we need to keep discussing this. Doctors will flippantly say it's the safest choice and for some it just isn't. Sorry if the discussion upsets you, but we have been told over the years all sorts of things were safe and eventually we found out they weren't (certain pesticides, meds, plastics).

No one medicates their child so that they can be a "star". It is a really tough decision, something parents will struggle with throughout their child's life.

pp here- I'm not upset about the conversation and agree that we need to discuss medication and that there are meds that were previously considered safe but now are not (see my post)- but some of what you are saying is anecdotal and perhaps true in some cases, although I'm going to agree that medicating so a child can be a *star* is hopefully, rare.
I was enjoying some of the scientific articles, studies, etc. - as I said "reasoned discourse" based on science. I have specific concerns about stimulants based on what we've been discovering about other meds- but they might be unfounded.

The medications have been used for about 60 years now. Even though there weren't many who got it at the beginning, by the 90s, large numbers of kids were being treated. Those kids are now young adults. I haven't seen or heard of any reports of significant dysfunction in those adults that isn't accounted for by their existing ADHD.

On the other hand, I've spoken to doctors about other medications that turned out to cause problems after they were introduced. They.said doctors themselves noticed and reported problems, even in the face of denials from the drug companies.

So I think if there were a major long term risk, we would have seen something by now.

Anonymous wrote:People never say they are medicating so their kid can be a star but I have seen several very anxious parents fight for an ADD diagnosis in children who were borderline at most and it does seem like the motivation is higher grades.

Sure there may be parents that over-react and have their kid tested, but you can't know whether a kid has ADD by observation if they have ADD inattentive which is very common in girls. DS's dr says those kids appear the same to others whether they are on meds or not, while ADHD combo the difference is usually observable.

Anonymous wrote:People never say they are medicating so their kid can be a star but I have seen several very anxious parents fight for an ADD diagnosis in children who were borderline at most and it does seem like the motivation is higher grades.

How do you know they are borderline and who did they fight with? As.for anxious parents, I don't know any non-anxious SN parents. It goes with the territory.