Anonymous
Post 12/06/2018 15:45     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
I actually fond that doing pick up and drop off WAS the biggest impediment to my career. Never being able to make a morning meeting and always having to be able to go by 5:30 made it impossible for me to pick up certain things that interested me at work, and frankly it made it so that I just wasn’t as dedicated as some other people, even if I wished to be.
If your husband is getting baby packed and doing drop off every morning AND taking on every sick day and phone call from daycare during the workday AND your office has a culture that a lot of people leave by 4:30 for daycare pickup, then I think you are golden.

Really, in terms of work performance, it doesn’t matter who plans the birthday parties or puts on lotion at night.


I am a single dad, had/have a good job but b/c of my child obligations (50-50 joint custody), I am a 9 to 5er (at most). Several years ago I knew that climbing the corporate ladder was not in my cards b/c of my priorities with kids and I was ok with it. It meant not being on the fast track to high level positions (which I was on), but rather, stay at the same level indefinitely. I accepted that. If you fight that and resent your spouse for it, you'll never be happy.
Anonymous
Post 12/06/2018 09:55     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:

I actually fond that doing pick up and drop off WAS the biggest impediment to my career. Never being able to make a morning meeting and always having to be able to go by 5:30 made it impossible for me to pick up certain things that interested me at work, and frankly it made it so that I just wasn’t as dedicated as some other people, even if I wished to be.
If your husband is getting baby packed and doing drop off every morning AND taking on every sick day and phone call from daycare during the workday AND your office has a culture that a lot of people leave by 4:30 for daycare pickup, then I think you are golden.

Really, in terms of work performance, it doesn’t matter who plans the birthday parties or puts on lotion at night.


NP, and I find this really interesting because it shows how job- and industry-specific these dynamics are. In my work environment, we maintain pretty minimal core hours (9-3) because people have different schedules, long commutes, and off-site work. So I can count on less than one hand the number of times it would have benefitted me to be in a meeting before 9am and on one hand the number of times I wished I could stay after 4:30. Being able to log back on and get some serious work done in the evenings is crucial for me. That's when my boss catches up on emails from the day, and everyone else is informally reporting around about what they've been working on, so if I'm not on email in the evening, I can't contribute to any of those conversations. So for me, I need to know that my spouse can handle bedtime and post-bedtime antics at least a few nights of the week, as well as any of that other stuff that pops up like needing to run to Target for a science fair poster board or needing to go to CVS for teacher appreciation gift cards.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 21:36     Subject: Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a successful academic, a mom and the default parent. BUT, being the default parent has entailed considerable sacrifices during my academic career. I have male colleagues who are not the DP who are able to travel every summer on research trips, take sabbaticals abroad and attend multiple international conferences per year.

When my kids were little, I published like a fiend and did a great deal of academic reading and writing in bizarre venues (in the cafeteria at a local high school while my kids were in youth orchestra, in the stands at day long swim meets). I made it work. BUT I also had to play the mom card on occasion. For years I didn't teach evening graduate seminars because I needed to be home.

However, if your husband doesn't have tenure yet he needs to be on campus, doing all the crappy facetime things that we expect. He needs to attend other people's research presentations, volunteer to lead the club, etc.

We made it work in our family because we all sacrificed and pitched in to make sure mom got tenure. This meant a lot of frozen pizza and precooked chickens and crazy weekends where both parents drove kids to activities and did errands in between. It meant lower expectations for holiday decorating and meals and birthday parties and things. It also meant paying more for a house cleaner, online shopping, etc. because one person cannot do it all.

Even if you think you can convince your husband to kick back and put family first, the whole family needs to understand that until he gets tenure, you may be looking at a dirty house, etc. It also means teaching your kids to be independent as soon as humanly possible -- doing their own laundry by the age of 9, making their own lunches and not forgetting their crap and expecting someone to deliver it to school!

It will not be a walk in the park.


OP here. Thank you for your perspective.

I think I am really having a hard time imagining exactly what having a kid will be like. My husband will get tenure (or get kicked out) well before our first kid is in kindergarten. I am picturing day care drop offs and pick ups and sick days being the major obstacles to either of us having uninterrupted work. Based on how I am imagining kids, don't the activities and really time consuming things start when the kids are a bit older? I am not planning on having a 3 year old do a lot of activities. Am I missing something in my perspective (serious question)?

I don't have high expectations around how the house is run. We have a roomba (LIFE SAVING), and we keep the house clutter free. I expect post baby we'll hire a twice monthly cleaner to do bathrooms and dusting.

I don't care about holiday decorating. I don't care about elaborate cooking.

Here is what I would want from my husband if we were to have a kid:

*Do child's laundry and put it away (I do his and mine currently to ensure we have unwrinkled work clothing). I figure he can do cotton children's clothing without too much trouble. I also don't care if the kid looks like a fashion icon or even matches.
*Do morning routine with child so I can get to the office early (I get most work done in AM as I am a morning person) and my office in general is morning office (Lot's of people leave by 3:30 or 4 to pick up kids at daycare).
*Clean up dinner, load and unload dishwasher in evenings (I am picturing that I would do daycare pickup, dinner and bedtime routine with child)
*Be primary contact with child's doctor and be the one responsible for keeping on top of that, arranging dr.'s appointments around his teaching and seminar schedule
*Be primarily contact with daycare in case child is sick, needs to be picked up early, etc. UNLESS it conflicts with his teaching schedule (his teaching requirement is 2-1, so as light as it gets)

Am I missing anything major or am I being unrealistic?







You are missing a major major issue : who wakes up at night... it kills you and your brain.. the interrupted sleep... and it lasts almost 2 years.. signed a mommy in a 50-50 relationship, dual careers, very involved DH.. BUT there seems to be a biological trick here : I hear the kids at night and he doesn’t.. and i understand that’s pretty common
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 13:51     Subject: Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:Long story short:

DW was a trailing spouse for first part of marriage for much longer than anticipated. Now DH has his desired job (academic), and DW is trying to get her career back on track after 4 years of disjointed work and freelancing. DW is 34, and it is time to have a baby, but DW doesn't want to permanently tank the possibility of a decent paying career. Therefore, DW wants DH to take on at minimum 50% childcare responsibilities while she tries to get promoted and work her way up the corporate ladder to a middle manager level. DH claims to be on board, but DW is concerned that in practice things will fall apart, in large part because she reads all of the sob stories on this board.

What say you?


If he is generally good at following through with what he says and already helps it with the kids, it won't be a problem.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 13:36     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


I've always thought this was worth a read:

https://www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear#page-14



Great, another site promoting DCUM's favorite mantra - men suck at being dads and moms take care of everything. Misandry at its finest.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 13:32     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:

I actually fond that doing pick up and drop off WAS the biggest impediment to my career. Never being able to make a morning meeting and always having to be able to go by 5:30 made it impossible for me to pick up certain things that interested me at work, and frankly it made it so that I just wasn’t as dedicated as some other people, even if I wished to be.
If your husband is getting baby packed and doing drop off every morning AND taking on every sick day and phone call from daycare during the workday AND your office has a culture that a lot of people leave by 4:30 for daycare pickup, then I think you are golden.

Really, in terms of work performance, it doesn’t matter who plans the birthday parties or puts on lotion at night.


Super encouraging to hear this take - OP
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 13:13     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.


And it was ridiculously over complicated. Default parent does not equate to single parent. If it does, you should not have kids, or you need a nanny.

If you are doing that entire list on a regular basis, you are likely in a "mommy tracked" position, because it leaves very little time to focus on your career.


np: I don't believe it was overly complicated. I looked it over and I have done everything on there as the default parent. Yes, this is what parents do as the default and why it's work/life balance is so hard! And why people who are not the default do not get it. Do you think work/life balance would be hard if all parenting consisted of was dropping off kid at daycare and picking back up?

Do I do everything on there every day? No, but there are always a few "extra" items every week that must be taken care of. This is a snapshot of things to do this week:

-- DS also needs extra special lotioning every day because he also gets eczema if he doesn't that end up in bleeding scabby patches.
-- DS needs saline solution in his nose before bed because he is also prone to nosebleeds in dry weather
-- need to check over and pay bill from eye doctor that just came in for DD, who got new glasses
-- need to remember to submit bill for DD's glasses to insurance
-- have to submit contract for DD's summer camp due next week
-- need to make appt for DS's annual checkup if it's going to be anywhere around his birthday
-- need to remember to make DD brings water bottle and dresses warmly for her field trip on Wednesday
-- need to respond to birthday party invitation from one of DS's classmates, not sure if we are going because it's far. if we are, get present.
-- DD wants to do a chess tournament at her school, signup deadline is this week
-- need to buy DD new boots because she's outgrown hers
-- need to buy christmas presents
-- there is a "share" at DD's school on Friday, which is when parents come in right at dropoff time to view something the kids have done.

That's just all the current extras I'm thinking about, along with the general make sure kids are fed, dressed, get sleep, bathed, teeth brushed. Next week, there will be different things. Probably some of you will say some of it is unnecessary or "takes 3 minutes!" to do, but it has to be remembered and done. I think I get like 4 weeks out the year total when all is quiet and there is nothing but the normal routine.



There you are...more score keeping. I'm surprised you did not put, tuck them in, get them dressed. News flash, it's called being a parent. You really included making sure they're fed and dressed as items you undertake? SMH.


You completely missed my point which was not about score-keeping. It was about the mental load of parenting which usually falls to the default parent (usually the woman) unless both make an active effort to avoid falling into this pattern. Picking apart the list and pointing little things to ridicule as small tasks not even worth noting is just a way in which parenting (women's) work is devalued and why being a default parent is a thankless job. Someone has to keep track of these things. No one cares unless it's not done.

I've always thought this was worth a read:

https://www.workingmother.com/this-comic-perfectly-explains-mental-load-working-mothers-bear#page-14

Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 11:06     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?


I actually fond that doing pick up and drop off WAS the biggest impediment to my career. Never being able to make a morning meeting and always having to be able to go by 5:30 made it impossible for me to pick up certain things that interested me at work, and frankly it made it so that I just wasn’t as dedicated as some other people, even if I wished to be.
If your husband is getting baby packed and doing drop off every morning AND taking on every sick day and phone call from daycare during the workday AND your office has a culture that a lot of people leave by 4:30 for daycare pickup, then I think you are golden.

Really, in terms of work performance, it doesn’t matter who plans the birthday parties or puts on lotion at night.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 10:49     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.


And it was ridiculously over complicated. Default parent does not equate to single parent. If it does, you should not have kids, or you need a nanny.

If you are doing that entire list on a regular basis, you are likely in a "mommy tracked" position, because it leaves very little time to focus on your career.


np: I don't believe it was overly complicated. I looked it over and I have done everything on there as the default parent. Yes, this is what parents do as the default and why it's work/life balance is so hard! And why people who are not the default do not get it. Do you think work/life balance would be hard if all parenting consisted of was dropping off kid at daycare and picking back up?

Do I do everything on there every day? No, but there are always a few "extra" items every week that must be taken care of. This is a snapshot of things to do this week:

-- DS also needs extra special lotioning every day because he also gets eczema if he doesn't that end up in bleeding scabby patches.
-- DS needs saline solution in his nose before bed because he is also prone to nosebleeds in dry weather
-- need to check over and pay bill from eye doctor that just came in for DD, who got new glasses
-- need to remember to submit bill for DD's glasses to insurance
-- have to submit contract for DD's summer camp due next week
-- need to make appt for DS's annual checkup if it's going to be anywhere around his birthday
-- need to remember to make DD brings water bottle and dresses warmly for her field trip on Wednesday
-- need to respond to birthday party invitation from one of DS's classmates, not sure if we are going because it's far. if we are, get present.
-- DD wants to do a chess tournament at her school, signup deadline is this week
-- need to buy DD new boots because she's outgrown hers
-- need to buy christmas presents
-- there is a "share" at DD's school on Friday, which is when parents come in right at dropoff time to view something the kids have done.

That's just all the current extras I'm thinking about, along with the general make sure kids are fed, dressed, get sleep, bathed, teeth brushed. Next week, there will be different things. Probably some of you will say some of it is unnecessary or "takes 3 minutes!" to do, but it has to be remembered and done. I think I get like 4 weeks out the year total when all is quiet and there is nothing but the normal routine.



There you are...more score keeping. I'm surprised you did not put, tuck them in, get them dressed. News flash, it's called being a parent. You really included making sure they're fed and dressed as items you undertake? SMH.


OMG, no one in this thread is keeping score. Scorekeeping is when someone says "I did seven tasks, and you only did four. This isn't fair." No one is doing that. In fact, no one has really been talking about the division of labor. The reality is that parenting requires keeping a running list of tasks that need to be accomplished, and good co-parenting requires occasionally talking to your partner about that list and dividing up the tasks as reasonable. Sometimes one person will take on a greater share of the list when the other one has something going on (like, in the OP's case, trying to re-start her career). In my marriage, we work hard not to keep score, **but** we do pay attention if someone has more than they can handle. So, I can say to my spouse, "I've got a lot going on this week, and I'm aware of these five things the kids need. Can you take a couple of them off my plate?"

At any rate, just making a list of the things that need to be done does not amount to keeping score. It amounts to getting stuff done.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 09:30     Subject: Husband as default parent?
My husband has adhd, so no matter what type of job he has - demanding or not- he cannot keep track of anything, remeber much, or focus when doing something. It’s frightening.
Anonymous
Post 12/05/2018 09:28     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.


And it was ridiculously over complicated. Default parent does not equate to single parent. If it does, you should not have kids, or you need a nanny.

If you are doing that entire list on a regular basis, you are likely in a "mommy tracked" position, because it leaves very little time to focus on your career.


np: I don't believe it was overly complicated. I looked it over and I have done everything on there as the default parent. Yes, this is what parents do as the default and why it's work/life balance is so hard! And why people who are not the default do not get it. Do you think work/life balance would be hard if all parenting consisted of was dropping off kid at daycare and picking back up?

Do I do everything on there every day? No, but there are always a few "extra" items every week that must be taken care of. This is a snapshot of things to do this week:

-- DS also needs extra special lotioning every day because he also gets eczema if he doesn't that end up in bleeding scabby patches.
-- DS needs saline solution in his nose before bed because he is also prone to nosebleeds in dry weather
-- need to check over and pay bill from eye doctor that just came in for DD, who got new glasses
-- need to remember to submit bill for DD's glasses to insurance
-- have to submit contract for DD's summer camp due next week
-- need to make appt for DS's annual checkup if it's going to be anywhere around his birthday
-- need to remember to make DD brings water bottle and dresses warmly for her field trip on Wednesday
-- need to respond to birthday party invitation from one of DS's classmates, not sure if we are going because it's far. if we are, get present.
-- DD wants to do a chess tournament at her school, signup deadline is this week
-- need to buy DD new boots because she's outgrown hers
-- need to buy christmas presents
-- there is a "share" at DD's school on Friday, which is when parents come in right at dropoff time to view something the kids have done.

That's just all the current extras I'm thinking about, along with the general make sure kids are fed, dressed, get sleep, bathed, teeth brushed. Next week, there will be different things. Probably some of you will say some of it is unnecessary or "takes 3 minutes!" to do, but it has to be remembered and done. I think I get like 4 weeks out the year total when all is quiet and there is nothing but the normal routine.



There you are...more score keeping. I'm surprised you did not put, tuck them in, get them dressed. News flash, it's called being a parent. You really included making sure they're fed and dressed as items you undertake? SMH.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2018 11:22     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.


And it was ridiculously over complicated. Default parent does not equate to single parent. If it does, you should not have kids, or you need a nanny.

If you are doing that entire list on a regular basis, you are likely in a "mommy tracked" position, because it leaves very little time to focus on your career.


np: I don't believe it was overly complicated. I looked it over and I have done everything on there as the default parent. Yes, this is what parents do as the default and why it's work/life balance is so hard! And why people who are not the default do not get it. Do you think work/life balance would be hard if all parenting consisted of was dropping off kid at daycare and picking back up?

Do I do everything on there every day? No, but there are always a few "extra" items every week that must be taken care of. This is a snapshot of things to do this week:

-- DS also needs extra special lotioning every day because he also gets eczema if he doesn't that end up in bleeding scabby patches.
-- DS needs saline solution in his nose before bed because he is also prone to nosebleeds in dry weather
-- need to check over and pay bill from eye doctor that just came in for DD, who got new glasses
-- need to remember to submit bill for DD's glasses to insurance
-- have to submit contract for DD's summer camp due next week
-- need to make appt for DS's annual checkup if it's going to be anywhere around his birthday
-- need to remember to make DD brings water bottle and dresses warmly for her field trip on Wednesday
-- need to respond to birthday party invitation from one of DS's classmates, not sure if we are going because it's far. if we are, get present.
-- DD wants to do a chess tournament at her school, signup deadline is this week
-- need to buy DD new boots because she's outgrown hers
-- need to buy christmas presents
-- there is a "share" at DD's school on Friday, which is when parents come in right at dropoff time to view something the kids have done.

That's just all the current extras I'm thinking about, along with the general make sure kids are fed, dressed, get sleep, bathed, teeth brushed. Next week, there will be different things. Probably some of you will say some of it is unnecessary or "takes 3 minutes!" to do, but it has to be remembered and done. I think I get like 4 weeks out the year total when all is quiet and there is nothing but the normal routine.

Anonymous
Post 12/04/2018 10:59     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:
Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.


And it was ridiculously over complicated. Default parent does not equate to single parent. If it does, you should not have kids, or you need a nanny.

If you are doing that entire list on a regular basis, you are likely in a "mommy tracked" position, because it leaves very little time to focus on your career.


I'm the list person again. I said very clearly that I do about 80% of the stuff on that list. I was trying to list things that my spouse and I do, so the OP could think about how she would split it with her spouse. (If you need a full accounting, I can tell you what I've done recently, and what he's done!!! For instance, he is covering the federal daycare closure tomorrow, and I'm covering preschool closure and PT conference Friday plus contributing to the teacher potluck. I am currently pumping and handling more than our family's share of DCUM posting for the day.)

In our case, my spouse and I made a deal before we even had kids when we moved **very** close to my office. I have a 10 minute walk to work, and he has a 75 minute metro and walking commute. Our offices are on opposite sides of the DC area--think Bethesda and Alexandria. Rather than trying to live in between, and both have miserable commutes and pay DC housing prices, we decided to give one person a long commute and the other person more of the day-to-day kid logistics. It works for us, and we don't need a nanny.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2018 10:48     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.


And it was ridiculously over complicated. Default parent does not equate to single parent. If it does, you should not have kids, or you need a nanny.

If you are doing that entire list on a regular basis, you are likely in a "mommy tracked" position, because it leaves very little time to focus on your career.
Anonymous
Post 12/04/2018 10:21     Subject: Re:Husband as default parent?
Anonymous wrote:The previous list is for stay at home parents, not the default parent between dual working spouses. Also, some parents may split morning & evening routine, not defaulting to one parent.

*I have three kids, and both my spouse and I have always held full time jobs. I was the default parent from 2002-2013. My husband has been the default parent for the past five years.

Morning parent
--basic daily morning hygiene
--breakfast & clean up
--backpack and any special items for school
--school/daycare drop off

Default parent during working hours
--cover sick days
--cover snow days (and other weird weather closings)
--cover random unexpected daycare closings like for a national day of mourning (hello Wednesday!) or a live action shooter drill
--any school/daycare calls or concerns
--take kid(s) to the dentist
--take kid(s) to doctor
--parent teacher conferences if both parents cannot attend

Evening parent
--school/daycare pickup
--dinner & clean up
--homework/backpack cleanout
--evening hygiene (bath, teeth clip fingernails, put lotion on kid(s)

Weekend items that either parent or both parents handle
--plan the kid(s) birthday parties (kids do not need large parties each year. Most years are family dinner, gifts and a cake.)
--coordinate attendance at other kids' birthday parties (buy a box of cards off of Amazon, buy cheap giftcards or keep a few books on hand for parties)
--organize play dates (when life is super busy scratch this altogether)
--sign up for and take kid(s) to extracurricular (though make it easier by having all young kids to do the same activity whether than be swimming, soccer, etc./limit to one activity per kid)
--call the health insurance to argue about a claim (my husband has always handled this, even when I was the default parent)
--split chores among all family members. Even toddlers have minor responsibilities.

**Each spouse manages their own parents. Neither my in-laws nor my parents require any special hand holding, and when my kids were little, they were even more understanding. They definitely do not play into any Monday-Friday daily routine.


Okay, except the previous list was definitely for parents with full time jobs--hence all the items about daycare closures.