Anonymous wrote:Still not explaining declining selectivity and presumable the conservatory numbers have been constant over time so numbers are declining on both fronts

Because they have been shown to not be declining. But you refuse to accept.

http://www2.oberlin.edu/instres/irhome/admissions.pdf

You'll see the numbers are within a fixed range over time.

You "alternative facts" people should learn that saying a lie over and over does not make it any more true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the CDS Oberlin reports, which was linked to a couple of pages ago. Just like a couple of pages ago the point that Oberlin's average admitted test scores are quite different from enrolled.

Oberlin published the common data set with a preface that it also publishes its own Quick Facts as a way of differentiating "between the College and Conservatory in a number of areas." The common data set combines the academic test scores for both the College of Arts and Science and the Conservatory. The common data set question specially requires colleges to include information for "ALL enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students." For Oberlin, this includes conservatory students.

If Williams or Swarthmore had a world-class conservatory, their combined academic stats would see them way below top 10.

No, Williams and Swarthmore would be just fine. There are top universities with undergrad leading conservatories such as Rice/JHU which have high profiles across all students. What Williams and Swarthmore have above Oberlin is better management, much richer finances, and long term regard as the top 3 LACs in the country.

Furthermore, conservatory students only account for ~20% of the student body so the stats in the CDS are more or less fairly representative of the arts and science students.

Still not explaining declining selectivity and presumable the conservatory numbers have been constant over time so numbers are declining on both fronts

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the CDS Oberlin reports, which was linked to a couple of pages ago. Just like a couple of pages ago the point that Oberlin's average admitted test scores are quite different from enrolled.

Oberlin published the common data set with a preface that it also publishes its own Quick Facts as a way of differentiating "between the College and Conservatory in a number of areas." The common data set combines the academic test scores for both the College of Arts and Science and the Conservatory. The common data set question specially requires colleges to include information for "ALL enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students." For Oberlin, this includes conservatory students.

If Williams or Swarthmore had a world-class conservatory, their combined academic stats would see them way below top 10.

Why are you so invested in propping up Oberlin? Are you a grad that's worried about the school's declining reputation? I understand if that's your motivation but to continue to argue that Oberlin is anywhere near a top 5 LAC just makes you look foolish.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is the CDS Oberlin reports, which was linked to a couple of pages ago. Just like a couple of pages ago the point that Oberlin's average admitted test scores are quite different from enrolled.

Oberlin published the common data set with a preface that it also publishes its own Quick Facts as a way of differentiating "between the College and Conservatory in a number of areas." The common data set combines the academic test scores for both the College of Arts and Science and the Conservatory. The common data set question specially requires colleges to include information for "ALL enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students." For Oberlin, this includes conservatory students.

If Williams or Swarthmore had a world-class conservatory, their combined academic stats would see them way below top 10.

Ok Oberlin is best! Let’s stop this because you don’t have sound reason. The same is true for NYU but no one gave any of their scores a break for their significantly larger creative schools. There is nothing more to say. There is a group on this site that believes Oberlin is top 5 LAC despite multiple data points clearly stating that it is a good school but not top 10 or even top 20 of LACs.

Anonymous wrote:It is the CDS Oberlin reports, which was linked to a couple of pages ago. Just like a couple of pages ago the point that Oberlin's average admitted test scores are quite different from enrolled.

Oberlin published the common data set with a preface that it also publishes its own Quick Facts as a way of differentiating "between the College and Conservatory in a number of areas." The common data set combines the academic test scores for both the College of Arts and Science and the Conservatory. The common data set question specially requires colleges to include information for "ALL enrolled, degree-seeking, first-time, first-year (freshman) students." For Oberlin, this includes conservatory students.

If Williams or Swarthmore had a world-class conservatory, their combined academic stats would see them way below top 10.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those profiles are for ENROLLED students while Oberlin's is listed for ADMITTED students. It is not a fair comparison.

The actual number for Oberlin freshman ACT is 29-31, the grades are b+ a link to the cds which is posted above has much lower numbers. Judging by the scores and the grades of the admitted students it’s not top 5-11. It’s more like 30 where the US news has placed the school. 30 is still good ... I don’t understand the need to inflate the schools stats.

Can you provide the link to the source of your data?

29-31 is still very close in range to their historical record. Also, one quirky thing about Oberlin is that they translate all GPA data to unweighted for CDS whereas many other schools don't. I think it's because they have a sizeable group of students from private schools that don't weight. You'd think they'd try to game the system more though.

Act 29-31 it totally different than 30-34... as in good school v. ivy league.

I wrote that in response to those who are arguing Oberlin is on a "downward trend" when I think they seem to have remarkable consistency in the history of attracting strong students in a tight range over decades. I'm not the PP who said their stats were the same as the top 5-11 schools. (I also think these minute distinctions are meaningless).
One thing that interests me is many selective LAC schools choose to have a very tight range of similar scoring students. It seems a bit homogenous--and that it's hard to argue that you're holistic in admissions when so many of your students fall within 30 points on the SAT. But I wonder if there's a desire to have primarily students of similar basic intellectual capacity so that becomes less of an influence in college? Like you all know all your fellow students are roughly equivalent in basic smarts, so what makes a difference is drive, work ethic, discipline,creativity, character etc.--things that individuals may have more power to change?

Yes, it's respectable but the whole point is debunking that Oberlin's stats are in line with LACs ranked 5-15. They're not. But it shouldn't matter. I know people who have turned down much higher ranked LACs than Oberlin due to personal reasons.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those profiles are for ENROLLED students while Oberlin's is listed for ADMITTED students. It is not a fair comparison.

The actual number for Oberlin freshman ACT is 29-31, the grades are b+ a link to the cds which is posted above has much lower numbers. Judging by the scores and the grades of the admitted students it’s not top 5-11. It’s more like 30 where the US news has placed the school. 30 is still good ... I don’t understand the need to inflate the schools stats.

Can you provide the link to the source of your data?

29-31 is still very close in range to their historical record. Also, one quirky thing about Oberlin is that they translate all GPA data to unweighted for CDS whereas many other schools don't. I think it's because they have a sizeable group of students from private schools that don't weight. You'd think they'd try to game the system more though.

Act 29-31 it totally different than 30-34... as in good school v. ivy league.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those profiles are for ENROLLED students while Oberlin's is listed for ADMITTED students. It is not a fair comparison.

The actual number for Oberlin freshman ACT is 29-31, the grades are b+ a link to the cds which is posted above has much lower numbers. Judging by the scores and the grades of the admitted students it’s not top 5-11. It’s more like 30 where the US news has placed the school. 30 is still good ... I don’t understand the need to inflate the schools stats.

Can you provide the link to the source of your data?

29-31 is still very close in range to their historical record. Also, one quirky thing about Oberlin is that they translate all GPA data to unweighted for CDS whereas many other schools don't. I think it's because they have a sizeable group of students from private schools that don't weight. You'd think they'd try to game the system more though.

It is the CDS Oberlin reports, which was linked to a couple of pages ago. Just like a couple of pages ago the point that Oberlin's average admitted test scores are quite different from enrolled.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of those profiles are for ENROLLED students while Oberlin's is listed for ADMITTED students. It is not a fair comparison.

The actual number for Oberlin freshman ACT is 29-31, the grades are b+ a link to the cds which is posted above has much lower numbers. Judging by the scores and the grades of the admitted students it’s not top 5-11. It’s more like 30 where the US news has placed the school. 30 is still good ... I don’t understand the need to inflate the schools stats.

Can you provide the link to the source of your data?

Anonymous wrote:All of those profiles are for ENROLLED students while Oberlin's is listed for ADMITTED students. It is not a fair comparison.

The actual number for Oberlin freshman ACT is 29-31, the grades are b+ a link to the cds which is posted above has much lower numbers. Judging by the scores and the grades of the admitted students it’s not top 5-11. It’s more like 30 where the US news has placed the school. 30 is still good ... I don’t understand the need to inflate the schools stats.

All of those profiles are for ENROLLED students while Oberlin's is listed for ADMITTED students. It is not a fair comparison.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you compare Oberlin's stats with other schools, you'll see Oberlin is comparable to top 5-11 schools.

Mid 50% Range

Oberlin (https://www.oberlin.edu/admissions-and-aid/class-profile )
1320-1520
30-34

Middlebury (http://www.middlebury.edu/admissions/start/profile )
1340-1520
33-34

Claremont McKenna ( https://www.cmc.edu/institutional-research/fact-sheet )
1340-1510
30-34

Haverford ( https://www.haverford.edu/admission/resources/class-2022 )
1420-1470
32-34

Vassar
https://admissions.vassar.edu/docs/statistics/Vassar-ClassProfile2022.pdf
1390-1500
31-33

Davidson ( https://www.davidson.edu/admission-and-financial-aid/class-of-2022-profile )
1290-1450
29-33

Please use real numbers! Those are not Oberlin's numbers according to Oberlin.

???????
https://www.oberlin.edu/admissions-and-aid/class-profile