Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's fun to read how it's all Trump's fault.

The journalist is alive. Sorry.

Why are you sorry he is alive? For that matter, what evidence do you have that he is alive? Have we really reached the point that being pro-Trump means that you have to deny any world event that might make him look bad?

I hate KSA government and Trump as much as anyone. But I think it's ridiculous that some people are trying to hang this on Trump. A known repressive government has captured a critic of said government (a very recent one) in a third country. How is this America's fault? What does any of this have to do with Trump? And more broadly, since when does America have any power over what happens in KSA? No American government has really been able to pressure Saudis to do anything. Not big stuff, not little stuff. For Khashoggi, the man has eaten off the government largess long enough that I see his misfortune as occupational hazard, not martyrdom. Remember, this is the man who applauded the extermination of government opposition, who cheered on as the opposition cleric was beheaded. Now I'm supposed to grieve for him?

Trump had a call with the Saudi's the night before this went down. The US IC knew about the warnings - Trump had to have been briefed. Either Trump is complicit in having known about what was going to happen and didn't warn KSA not to do it, or else he is complicit. The third option is that he did warn KSA and they ignored it. That is HIGHLY unlikely.

Trump seems to be complicit with everything every time always.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The White House failed in a basic duty to inform; and all because Jared and Donald took a boatload of money from KSA to look the other way, to allow Russia to install nuclear capabilities in the region and as a bulwark to Iran.

Absolutely shameful. I hope the Senate passes Magnisky Act sanctions against KSA and put Trump and Kushner on a proverbial box (which is better than the actual box the Journalist is in)

Not seeing the Russia connection. Thinking some folks are imagining Russians everywhere.

Read the Steel dossier, the Flynn reports and the Erik Prince reports.

It's all in there.

This is why Nicki Haley got out. Shrewd politician.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:
You seem very eager to excuse this likely murder. The US has arrested American who spied for Israel. We didn’t chop them up into little pieces. Everyone should be outraged if this is what the Saudis did. That includes you.

When did KSA promise to behave exactly like America?

On the outrage, leaving aside the very curious attempt to dictate the feelings to perfect strangers...Khashoggi excused the regime chopping the heads of its opponents who called for political reforms inside the country. Now I am supposed to weep when HE got chopped up? Who kissed the royal bottom for years? Who ate from the hands of Al-Saud all his life? What's up with the clumsy attempt to package him as a lifelong reformer, instead of a lifelong government loyalist who either bet on the wrong prince or got too big for his britches?

Lie with the dogs, wake up with fleas.

Most Americans oppose the death penalty for expressing views, regardless of how horrendous those views may be. I'm sorry that you are in the minority that believes otherwise.

Most Saudis probably don’t. Geez, Jeff, how Eurocentric and imperialistic for you to impose your white American values on a totally different culture! I thought you were a liberal

I'm happy to impose the value of free expression on anyone. But more to the point, I am an American posting on a website whose audience is 99 percent American. Khashoggi was a US resident and the US has an interest in his fate. I'm surprised to find Saudi apologists here.

I don't know if it's as much as Saudi apologists as pragmatism. The people you seem to allege as being apologists are the ones pointing out the badasses in the House of Saud and the risks of crossing paths with them. That doesn't sound like apologising for Saudi to me. Everyone on this thread seems to mutually agree that the Saudis are terrible.

I looked up Khashoggi and from what I can tell he fled Saudi in 2017. He might have been living in the US at various points but he was not American. He was firmly a Saudi. He knew the rules, as anyone who's lived in the Gulf would know. You do not badmouth your country or tribe or ruler or politics in public, and not in the way he did. All bets are off when you do so. Trying to claim the virtues of Western liberalism while still still keeping a foot firmly in the world of 15th century tribal politics is pushing it a bit too far.

I am not without sympathy over the potentially brutal death of a man, but as others have pointed out, he doubtlessly knew the risks and what he was doing.

Posted from Doha. Another apologist.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to imply with that comment.

Surely even you know that Saudi and Qatar are now embroiled in a bitter diplomatic situation that has Qatar embargoed by Saudi. There is no love among Qataris for Saudi and particularly the current Saudi leadership, who they blame as primarily responsible for the embargo which began with the intent of overthrowing the Qatari sheikh Hamad al Thani. So why would someone in Qatar be apologising or defending Saudi?

That aside, it is also very possible that someone may be currently in Qatar as an American expat with no particular stakes in the situation but merely an interested observer who likes to munch on popcorn while watching the local kingdoms and their tinpot kings and royal families squabble with each other over meaningless things. If it makes me an apologist to point out the dangers of allying yourself too closely with the local ruling families and what it requires of you and the potential outcomes if you are later seen to have betrayed that family, then so be it.

Anonymous wrote:The White House failed in a basic duty to inform; and all because Jared and Donald took a boatload of money from KSA to look the other way, to allow Russia to install nuclear capabilities in the region and as a bulwark to Iran.

Absolutely shameful. I hope the Senate passes Magnisky Act sanctions against KSA and put Trump and Kushner on a proverbial box (which is better than the actual box the Journalist is in)

What? In what way does the White House have a duty to inform? Inform whom?

Also, do get off the soapbox. Obama didn't take any money from KSA but that didn't really motivate him to speak up when the Saudis were imprisoning and executing opposition leaders.

“The crown prince of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman, ordered an operation to lure Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia from his home in Virginia and then detain him, according to U.S. intelligence intercepts of Saudi officials discussing the plan.

The intelligence, described by U.S. officials familiar with it, is another piece of evidence implicating the Saudi regime in Khashoggi’s disappearance last week after he entered the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. Turkish officials say that a Saudi security team lay in wait for the journalist and killed him.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/crown-prince-sought-to-lure-khashoggi-back-to-saudi-arabia-and-detain-him-us-intercepts-show/2018/10/10/57bd7948-cc9a-11e8-920f-dd52e1ae4570_story.html?__twitter_impression=true

Anonymous wrote:The White House failed in a basic duty to inform; and all because Jared and Donald took a boatload of money from KSA to look the other way, to allow Russia to install nuclear capabilities in the region and as a bulwark to Iran.

Absolutely shameful. I hope the Senate passes Magnisky Act sanctions against KSA and put Trump and Kushner on a proverbial box (which is better than the actual box the Journalist is in)

Not seeing the Russia connection. Thinking some folks are imagining Russians everywhere.

The White House failed in a basic duty to inform; and all because Jared and Donald took a boatload of money from KSA to look the other way, to allow Russia to install nuclear capabilities in the region and as a bulwark to Iran.

Absolutely shameful. I hope the Senate passes Magnisky Act sanctions against KSA and put Trump and Kushner on a proverbial box (which is better than the actual box the Journalist is in)

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry to say the Turks have proof of murder and will be releasing the evidence shortly.

Link? Though it seems the only obvious theory.

His Apple Watch recorded it all, and the Turks have it.

Recorded it how? Apple Watches don't have cameras. Stock they don't have an audio recorder either.

This is the theory being floated:
https://www.newsweek.com/jamal-khashoggi-missing-saudi-journalist-turkey-1162967

That theory doesn't make sense. Apple Watches communicate with iPhones using either bluetooth or wifi. Bluetooth has very limited range and would not reach from the street to the inside of the consulate. If both the phone and the watch were on the same wifi network, they could use that to communicate, but it seems unlikely that there would be an available wifi network they could use. If he had the cellular version of the watch, they might be able to trace the watch's location by determining which cell towers it pinged.

A real long shot, I guess, is if his watch was in the van that allegedly carried him out and just happened to pass within bluetooth range of his phone. It might have had time to upload data. If the Saudis sent a 15 member team to do this job and none of them thought to destroy the watch, there will probably be several more executions soon.

We should recall our ambassador to Saudi Arabia!! Oh wait, we don’t have one. Jared is in charge. Hmmm.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry to say the Turks have proof of murder and will be releasing the evidence shortly.

Link? Though it seems the only obvious theory.

His Apple Watch recorded it all, and the Turks have it.

Recorded it how? Apple Watches don't have cameras. Stock they don't have an audio recorder either.

Don't be so literal, next thing you know you'll be asking me if it's black and white or color. "Recorded" means reflected in some way.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry to say the Turks have proof of murder and will be releasing the evidence shortly.

Link? Though it seems the only obvious theory.

His Apple Watch recorded it all, and the Turks have it.

Recorded it how? Apple Watches don't have cameras. Stock they don't have an audio recorder either.

This is the theory being floated:
https://www.newsweek.com/jamal-khashoggi-missing-saudi-journalist-turkey-1162967

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry to say the Turks have proof of murder and will be releasing the evidence shortly.

Link? Though it seems the only obvious theory.

His Apple Watch recorded it all, and the Turks have it.

Recorded it how? Apple Watches don't have cameras. Stock they don't have an audio recorder either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry to say the Turks have proof of murder and will be releasing the evidence shortly.

Link? Though it seems the only obvious theory.

His Apple Watch recorded it all, and the Turks have it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Saudis bought Kushner. Nothing will come of all this.

No administration has ever called Saudis to account for their repressive, murderous ways, and this one won't either.

What about.....
Hard to forget kushner handing over intel when he arrived in KSA which was followed by a huge crackdown.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5575395/amp/Saudi-crown-prince-brags-Jared-Kushner-handed-U-S-intelligence.html