Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you have any evidence that those who participate in magnet or GT programs have the same outcomes as those who do not? My kids are not magnet age, but I've heard anecdotally that the curriculum is better and that teachers are often stronger in the gifted/magnet programs. That would influence learning outcomes, which would influence a kid's chance for success.

I can't find it now but there was a testimony quote from an MCPS lead admin -perhaps Maria or someone else- in regards to the data on students who are 2-3 years above grade level. She basically admitted that the system doesn't do much to serve the needs of these students BUT that she saw no evidence that these kids outcomes were in any way hindered so the focus would always be on the underperforming students instead. From the MCPD perspective, if the magnet population if wealthy white or asian then its really a waste because these kids would still get into a basic college without the magnet program.

Let me bring this up to a larger point. It is not the job of the public school system to make sure your special snowflake is challenged. It is the job of a school system to ensure students meet a basic level of preparedness for life

The reality is most of you complaining on here should be thankful for any type of program at all for the top when they don't need anything to be successful

PS I do know tons of evidence that shows going to private vs public school doesn't have any impact on life either once you normalize for raw talent coming in.

I know the research you're talking about on private vs public school. I just don't believe, though, that it doesn't make a difference if a kid goes to a high-quality private school vs a crappy public school.

Anyway, there's a quote out there that basically says, the government owes your kid a Chevy education. Reliable, no frills. If you want a Cadillac education, you have to pay for it.

Let me bring this up to a larger point. It is not the job of the public school system to make sure your special snowflake is challenged. It is the job of a school system to ensure students meet a basic level of preparedness for life

The reality is most of you complaining on here should be thankful for any type of program at all for the top when they don't need anything to be successful

PS I do know tons of evidence that shows going to private vs public school doesn't have any impact on life either once you normalize for raw talent coming in.

Yes, this is the MCPS position. You summed it up nicely and this is exactly why they will shut down the GT/magnet program. They do not see it as important to spend $$ here.

If you track the budget and county finances you will know its about to get much worse. If the Kirwan commission recommendation goes through next year-which is probably will then MCPS is royally screwed. When the county loses 70% of state funding and has to come up with it at the county level it will be a blood bath. There is no way that the magnet program would survive.

MCPS is in deep budget trouble even without the potential of losing more state funding. There is no money for the extended year programs. There is no money for the curriculum replacement. The debt service and deferred maintenance along with payroll is eating up everything in the budget. There is no money for school construction which makes the deferred maintenance even worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But isn’t it beneficial for all to provide enriched classes in all schools? I agree with the County that we need to reduce the amount of busing in any way possible and if we can meet the needs of the kids in their home schools, then we should!

I agree. While I don’t think the instruction provided in the home schools is sufficient, it’s the right model. Ultimately a kid should be able to find what they need in a home school, especially at the K-8 level.

+1. My kids aren’t of magnet age yet, but the whole McPS model of choosing the top 1% as determined by standardized testing seems bizarre to me when you’re talking about 2nd graders. I would have no objection to the junking of the whole busing/magnet model in favor of well-designed enrichment classes that benefit the top 10-20% at each school. Probably would be cheaper anyway without the busing.

For larger schools, perhaps. For smaller schools, with only one or two classes per grade, you might have only a handful of kids who are several grades ahead of the rest of their class in ability. Would those kids get a specialist for just a few hours a week? Would that be enough to support them?

How many small schools like this actually exist in MiCo? Seems like one solution for those schools is to combine the enrichment class with a neighboring school to achieve critical mass. It will be interesting to see if/how MCPS rolls this out but I like the idea of having enriched classes at all schools and serving more kids. I was in something similar in ES.

It's fine. It is similar to Fairfax but it is not going to be the same program you have now because the top 25% does not work at the same level as the top 5%. Maybe it is better to ignore the very top to provide for more kids where they are but if you read the AAP threads there are often complaining that it is not a very advanced curriculum..which is probably appropriate given how many kids are involved.

Parents will complain no matter what. But I like the Fairfax model better than the MCPS model because the 1% chosen in MCPS is so dependent on testing. No matter what you'll have false positives and false negatives, but at least with the top 15 or 20% the consequences of including/excluding a kid are less dramatic. And more kids will get enrichment services, which is good.

I've posted this in the APP forum but I'll post it here as well. None of this stuff actually matters in the real world

We can all predict who will be taking honors/AP in high school, going to the good colleges, and being successful and none of it is related to who was in AAP or magnets.

Do you have any evidence that those who participate in magnet or GT programs have the same outcomes as those who do not? My kids are not magnet age, but I've heard anecdotally that the curriculum is better and that teachers are often stronger in the gifted/magnet programs. That would influence learning outcomes, which would influence a kid's chance for success.

Based on the data that Bethesda magazine publishes each year, the outcomes are not much different. The W's and BCC high schools do well in college admissions just like RM, Poolesville and Blair magnet students. I don't have upcounty data, but I'm sure it is similar for the top 2 high schools. There are only 200 MS magnet seats in the downcounty so the majority of the kids have to go to a high school other than the magnets.

Anonymous wrote:

Do you have any evidence that those who participate in magnet or GT programs have the same outcomes as those who do not? My kids are not magnet age, but I've heard anecdotally that the curriculum is better and that teachers are often stronger in the gifted/magnet programs. That would influence learning outcomes, which would influence a kid's chance for success.

I can't find it now but there was a testimony quote from an MCPS lead admin -perhaps Maria or someone else- in regards to the data on students who are 2-3 years above grade level. She basically admitted that the system doesn't do much to serve the needs of these students BUT that she saw no evidence that these kids outcomes were in any way hindered so the focus would always be on the underperforming students instead. From the MCPD perspective, if the magnet population if wealthy white or asian then its really a waste because these kids would still get into a basic college without the magnet program.

Let me bring this up to a larger point. It is not the job of the public school system to make sure your special snowflake is challenged. It is the job of a school system to ensure students meet a basic level of preparedness for life

The reality is most of you complaining on here should be thankful for any type of program at all for the top when they don't need anything to be successful

PS I do know tons of evidence that shows going to private vs public school doesn't have any impact on life either once you normalize for raw talent coming in.

Anonymous wrote:

I can't find it now but there was a testimony quote from an MCPS lead admin -perhaps Maria or someone else- in regards to the data on students who are 2-3 years above grade level. She basically admitted that the system doesn't do much to serve the needs of these students BUT that she saw no evidence that these kids outcomes were in any way hindered so the focus would always be on the underperforming students instead. From the MCPD perspective, if the magnet population if wealthy white or asian then its really a waste because these kids would still get into a basic college without the magnet program.

If it weren't rude to roll my eyes, I would be rolling my eyes.

Do you have any evidence that those who participate in magnet or GT programs have the same outcomes as those who do not? My kids are not magnet age, but I've heard anecdotally that the curriculum is better and that teachers are often stronger in the gifted/magnet programs. That would influence learning outcomes, which would influence a kid's chance for success.

I can't find it now but there was a testimony quote from an MCPS lead admin -perhaps Maria or someone else- in regards to the data on students who are 2-3 years above grade level. She basically admitted that the system doesn't do much to serve the needs of these students BUT that she saw no evidence that these kids outcomes were in any way hindered so the focus would always be on the underperforming students instead. From the MCPD perspective, if the magnet population if wealthy white or asian then its really a waste because these kids would still get into a basic college without the magnet program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But isn’t it beneficial for all to provide enriched classes in all schools? I agree with the County that we need to reduce the amount of busing in any way possible and if we can meet the needs of the kids in their home schools, then we should!

I agree. While I don’t think the instruction provided in the home schools is sufficient, it’s the right model. Ultimately a kid should be able to find what they need in a home school, especially at the K-8 level.

+1. My kids aren’t of magnet age yet, but the whole McPS model of choosing the top 1% as determined by standardized testing seems bizarre to me when you’re talking about 2nd graders. I would have no objection to the junking of the whole busing/magnet model in favor of well-designed enrichment classes that benefit the top 10-20% at each school. Probably would be cheaper anyway without the busing.

For larger schools, perhaps. For smaller schools, with only one or two classes per grade, you might have only a handful of kids who are several grades ahead of the rest of their class in ability. Would those kids get a specialist for just a few hours a week? Would that be enough to support them?

How many small schools like this actually exist in MiCo? Seems like one solution for those schools is to combine the enrichment class with a neighboring school to achieve critical mass. It will be interesting to see if/how MCPS rolls this out but I like the idea of having enriched classes at all schools and serving more kids. I was in something similar in ES.

It's fine. It is similar to Fairfax but it is not going to be the same program you have now because the top 25% does not work at the same level as the top 5%. Maybe it is better to ignore the very top to provide for more kids where they are but if you read the AAP threads there are often complaining that it is not a very advanced curriculum..which is probably appropriate given how many kids are involved.

Parents will complain no matter what. But I like the Fairfax model better than the MCPS model because the 1% chosen in MCPS is so dependent on testing. No matter what you'll have false positives and false negatives, but at least with the top 15 or 20% the consequences of including/excluding a kid are less dramatic. And more kids will get enrichment services, which is good.

I've posted this in the APP forum but I'll post it here as well. None of this stuff actually matters in the real world

We can all predict who will be taking honors/AP in high school, going to the good colleges, and being successful and none of it is related to who was in AAP or magnets.

Do you have any evidence that those who participate in magnet or GT programs have the same outcomes as those who do not? My kids are not magnet age, but I've heard anecdotally that the curriculum is better and that teachers are often stronger in the gifted/magnet programs. That would influence learning outcomes, which would influence a kid's chance for success.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But isn’t it beneficial for all to provide enriched classes in all schools? I agree with the County that we need to reduce the amount of busing in any way possible and if we can meet the needs of the kids in their home schools, then we should!

I agree. While I don’t think the instruction provided in the home schools is sufficient, it’s the right model. Ultimately a kid should be able to find what they need in a home school, especially at the K-8 level.

+1. My kids aren’t of magnet age yet, but the whole McPS model of choosing the top 1% as determined by standardized testing seems bizarre to me when you’re talking about 2nd graders. I would have no objection to the junking of the whole busing/magnet model in favor of well-designed enrichment classes that benefit the top 10-20% at each school. Probably would be cheaper anyway without the busing.

For larger schools, perhaps. For smaller schools, with only one or two classes per grade, you might have only a handful of kids who are several grades ahead of the rest of their class in ability. Would those kids get a specialist for just a few hours a week? Would that be enough to support them?

How many small schools like this actually exist in MiCo? Seems like one solution for those schools is to combine the enrichment class with a neighboring school to achieve critical mass. It will be interesting to see if/how MCPS rolls this out but I like the idea of having enriched classes at all schools and serving more kids. I was in something similar in ES.

It's fine. It is similar to Fairfax but it is not going to be the same program you have now because the top 25% does not work at the same level as the top 5%. Maybe it is better to ignore the very top to provide for more kids where they are but if you read the AAP threads there are often complaining that it is not a very advanced curriculum..which is probably appropriate given how many kids are involved.

Parents will complain no matter what. But I like the Fairfax model better than the MCPS model because the 1% chosen in MCPS is so dependent on testing. No matter what you'll have false positives and false negatives, but at least with the top 15 or 20% the consequences of including/excluding a kid are less dramatic. And more kids will get enrichment services, which is good.

I've posted this in the APP forum but I'll post it here as well. None of this stuff actually matters in the real world

We can all predict who will be taking honors/AP in high school, going to the good colleges, and being successful and none of it is related to who was in AAP or magnets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But isn’t it beneficial for all to provide enriched classes in all schools? I agree with the County that we need to reduce the amount of busing in any way possible and if we can meet the needs of the kids in their home schools, then we should!

I agree. While I don’t think the instruction provided in the home schools is sufficient, it’s the right model. Ultimately a kid should be able to find what they need in a home school, especially at the K-8 level.

+1. My kids aren’t of magnet age yet, but the whole McPS model of choosing the top 1% as determined by standardized testing seems bizarre to me when you’re talking about 2nd graders. I would have no objection to the junking of the whole busing/magnet model in favor of well-designed enrichment classes that benefit the top 10-20% at each school. Probably would be cheaper anyway without the busing.

For larger schools, perhaps. For smaller schools, with only one or two classes per grade, you might have only a handful of kids who are several grades ahead of the rest of their class in ability. Would those kids get a specialist for just a few hours a week? Would that be enough to support them?

How many small schools like this actually exist in MiCo? Seems like one solution for those schools is to combine the enrichment class with a neighboring school to achieve critical mass. It will be interesting to see if/how MCPS rolls this out but I like the idea of having enriched classes at all schools and serving more kids. I was in something similar in ES.

It's fine. It is similar to Fairfax but it is not going to be the same program you have now because the top 25% does not work at the same level as the top 5%. Maybe it is better to ignore the very top to provide for more kids where they are but if you read the AAP threads there are often complaining that it is not a very advanced curriculum..which is probably appropriate given how many kids are involved.

Parents will complain no matter what. But I like the Fairfax model better than the MCPS model because the 1% chosen in MCPS is so dependent on testing. No matter what you'll have false positives and false negatives, but at least with the top 15 or 20% the consequences of including/excluding a kid are less dramatic. And more kids will get enrichment services, which is good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing shutting down are the hyper competitive parents who can’t handle the fact that their child cant help differentiate their family from others.

For the parents who are calling for the program to shut down or get sued out of existence...it was never about the needs of their child. Rather, it was about falling short in comparing their family to others.

+1

This is how these parents justify their lifestyle to their families and friends back home. If Larla from an off-brand ES in the eastern part of MoCo can get into the magnet, it undermines their argument that they had to buy a million dollar McMansion zoned to a W-feeder to give little Larlette a fighting chance. Often the grandparents are footing some of their bills and now wondering why Larlette wasn’t deemed worthy.

Do you even know that many people in the magnet to make such an ignorant statement, or are you just bitter for inane reason?

This isn't about the people in the magnet. Rather, this is about the select individuals who are complaining on DCUM about the selection process that didn't select their child.

Guess what? Now they can't use their child to compare against other families in their W school district. And because of that...they fantasize about the whole program shutting down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing shutting down are the hyper competitive parents who can’t handle the fact that their child cant help differentiate their family from others.

For the parents who are calling for the program to shut down or get sued out of existence...it was never about the needs of their child. Rather, it was about falling short in comparing their family to others.

+1

This is how these parents justify their lifestyle to their families and friends back home. If Larla from an off-brand ES in the eastern part of MoCo can get into the magnet, it undermines their argument that they had to buy a million dollar McMansion zoned to a W-feeder to give little Larlette a fighting chance. Often the grandparents are footing some of their bills and now wondering why Larlette wasn’t deemed worthy.

Do you even know that many people in the magnet to make such an ignorant statement, or are you just bitter for inane reason?

+ 1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing shutting down are the hyper competitive parents who can’t handle the fact that their child cant help differentiate their family from others.

For the parents who are calling for the program to shut down or get sued out of existence...it was never about the needs of their child. Rather, it was about falling short in comparing their family to others.

+1

This is how these parents justify their lifestyle to their families and friends back home. If Larla from an off-brand ES in the eastern part of MoCo can get into the magnet, it undermines their argument that they had to buy a million dollar McMansion zoned to a W-feeder to give little Larlette a fighting chance. Often the grandparents are footing some of their bills and now wondering why Larlette wasn’t deemed worthy.

Do you even know that many people in the magnet to make such an ignorant statement, or are you just bitter for inane reason?

Seriously. Plus PP’s statement reeks of elitism. And people wonder why us upcounty (and I know eastern MoCo parents too) are always pushing our schools on here. It’s because jerks like PP think the world begins and ends in downcounty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing shutting down are the hyper competitive parents who can’t handle the fact that their child cant help differentiate their family from others.

For the parents who are calling for the program to shut down or get sued out of existence...it was never about the needs of their child. Rather, it was about falling short in comparing their family to others.

+1

This is how these parents justify their lifestyle to their families and friends back home. If Larla from an off-brand ES in the eastern part of MoCo can get into the magnet, it undermines their argument that they had to buy a million dollar McMansion zoned to a W-feeder to give little Larlette a fighting chance. Often the grandparents are footing some of their bills and now wondering why Larlette wasn’t deemed worthy.

Do you even know that many people in the magnet to make such an ignorant statement, or are you just bitter for inane reason?

Anonymous wrote:The only thing shutting down are the hyper competitive parents who can’t handle the fact that their child cant help differentiate their family from others.

For the parents who are calling for the program to shut down or get sued out of existence...it was never about the needs of their child. Rather, it was about falling short in comparing their family to others.

+1

This is how these parents justify their lifestyle to their families and friends back home. If Larla from an off-brand ES in the eastern part of MoCo can get into the magnet, it undermines their argument that they had to buy a million dollar McMansion zoned to a W-feeder to give little Larlette a fighting chance. Often the grandparents are footing some of their bills and now wondering why Larlette wasn’t deemed worthy.

Have they released the demographics of kids who were accepted? Where can I find this information?