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Anonymous wrote:The people most incensed about ILLEGAL immigration are shrugging off Cohen campaign finance violations which tells you all you need to know. They don't really care that much about the law. They're mostly upset about illegal IMMIGRATION.

Exactly. They really don’t care about the LAW.

They’re impotent losers just looking to dump on someone they deem less “worthy” than themselves. “Illegals”, BLM, etc. Funny they don’t recognize the pattern to their hate.

For real. If Republicans cared about law and order they would be incensed at the lawless president who just this morning basically declared he couldn't be impeached as long as he's doing "a good job." In other words, if the economy is doing okay there's no reason to care if he goes out and shoots someone on 5th Avenue. And his supporters absolutely agree with that.

So spare me the yapping about breaking the law. Trump has a habit of hiring criminals and he has shady business connections that would make a mob boss blush. His Trump University was found in court to be one huge fraud. He has illegally stiffed contractors of their payments. He broke civil rights laws as a landlord in the 1970s. We all know he's got something funny going on with his taxes or otherwise he wouldn't fight so hard to keep his returns secret. His own wife dubiously received a visa to work here.

Law and order, my @ss.

If the Trump tribe truly cared about law and order, they would deport the descendants of the Mafia and Irish gangs who controlled our Big Cities for decades. They were far more dangerous than MS-13 has been. The FACT is that much of the tribe is basically racist.

I am going to assume this was a drunk post given the timestamp and the fact that it lacks logic.

+ 1 If nothing else, it shows yet another liberal who doesn't understand that American citizens can't be deported, and that illegal immigrants can. They are so adamant in protecting this group of illegal invaders that they keep blinding themselves to the fact that they have no right to be here in the first place.

Anonymous wrote:For the average DCUM poster illegal immigrants are great lower prices overall and cheap labor for you

Not to keep beating a dead horse but the reason Trump won again is illegal immigrants drove down and are continuing to drive down blue collar wages

And in some cases not all they are having negative effects by overwhelming schools by ESOL and other services and by sheer population. You don't have to go far in Montgomery county or fairfax county to see the problems

And again the typical DCUM poster in Bethesda or other rich parts of these places doesn't see the issues first hand

Can you back up your assertions with actual numbers, pleas. How many students in schools are undocumented. Also how many taxes are undocumented workers paying? That would be helpful to know. Because you must be basing your post on actual numbers that you can cite. Otherwise why make those assertions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people most incensed about ILLEGAL immigration are shrugging off Cohen campaign finance violations which tells you all you need to know. They don't really care that much about the law. They're mostly upset about illegal IMMIGRATION.

Exactly. They really don’t care about the LAW.

They’re impotent losers just looking to dump on someone they deem less “worthy” than themselves. “Illegals”, BLM, etc. Funny they don’t recognize the pattern to their hate.

For real. If Republicans cared about law and order they would be incensed at the lawless president who just this morning basically declared he couldn't be impeached as long as he's doing "a good job." In other words, if the economy is doing okay there's no reason to care if he goes out and shoots someone on 5th Avenue. And his supporters absolutely agree with that.

So spare me the yapping about breaking the law. Trump has a habit of hiring criminals and he has shady business connections that would make a mob boss blush. His Trump University was found in court to be one huge fraud. He has illegally stiffed contractors of their payments. He broke civil rights laws as a landlord in the 1970s. We all know he's got something funny going on with his taxes or otherwise he wouldn't fight so hard to keep his returns secret. His own wife dubiously received a visa to work here.

Law and order, my @ss.

If the Trump tribe truly cared about law and order, they would deport the descendants of the Mafia and Irish gangs who controlled our Big Cities for decades. They were far more dangerous than MS-13 has been. The FACT is that much of the tribe is basically racist.

I am going to assume this was a drunk post given the timestamp and the fact that it lacks logic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people most incensed about ILLEGAL immigration are shrugging off Cohen campaign finance violations which tells you all you need to know. They don't really care that much about the law. They're mostly upset about illegal IMMIGRATION.

Exactly. They really don’t care about the LAW.

They’re impotent losers just looking to dump on someone they deem less “worthy” than themselves. “Illegals”, BLM, etc. Funny they don’t recognize the pattern to their hate.

For real. If Republicans cared about law and order they would be incensed at the lawless president who just this morning basically declared he couldn't be impeached as long as he's doing "a good job." In other words, if the economy is doing okay there's no reason to care if he goes out and shoots someone on 5th Avenue. And his supporters absolutely agree with that.

So spare me the yapping about breaking the law. Trump has a habit of hiring criminals and he has shady business connections that would make a mob boss blush. His Trump University was found in court to be one huge fraud. He has illegally stiffed contractors of their payments. He broke civil rights laws as a landlord in the 1970s. We all know he's got something funny going on with his taxes or otherwise he wouldn't fight so hard to keep his returns secret. His own wife dubiously received a visa to work here.

Law and order, my @ss.

If the Trump tribe truly cared about law and order, they would deport the descendants of the Mafia and Irish gangs who controlled our Big Cities for decades. They were far more dangerous than MS-13 has been. The FACT is that much of the tribe is basically racist.

Anonymous wrote:For the average DCUM poster illegal immigrants are great lower prices overall and cheap labor for you

Not to keep beating a dead horse but the reason Trump won again is illegal immigrants drove down and are continuing to drive down blue collar wages

And in some cases not all they are having negative effects by overwhelming schools by ESOL and other services and by sheer population. You don't have to go far in Montgomery county or fairfax county to see the problems

And again the typical DCUM poster in Bethesda or other rich parts of these places doesn't see the issues first hand

Taxes. Huge amounts of federal money go for medical care via public clinics and other programs. Birthright citizenship - illegals and tourist visa. Local taxes in MOCO, PG, FX for schools. Only official count is the unaccompanied minors which in each of those counties is so high it equals the need for school construction just from that block. Who pays? Not MD or VA. We make the top 10 for impacted local taxing jurisdictions.


Yes we have citizens that commit crimes so there is no need to add any more.

For the average DCUM poster illegal immigrants are great lower prices overall and cheap labor for you

Not to keep beating a dead horse but the reason Trump won again is illegal immigrants drove down and are continuing to drive down blue collar wages

And in some cases not all they are having negative effects by overwhelming schools by ESOL and other services and by sheer population. You don't have to go far in Montgomery county or fairfax county to see the problems

And again the typical DCUM poster in Bethesda or other rich parts of these places doesn't see the issues first hand

I lived in El Paso, across the border from juarez, for a short time doing some work at William Beaumont and Fort Bliss. The drug cartels had an interest in keeping order in El Paso, as to not draw more attention there to make their deals harder. As it was, they kept two bit dealers out, and they would just disappear in the desert. However, as my kids were young teens, they were targeted, bullied and beat up for being white. They were not able to get hired at minimum wage jobs. We were often ignored, or on wrong end of attitude of workers who were Hispanic at local businesses, like grocery stores, restaurants, car repair shops, every day businesses. While I know good people and bad people of every race and nationality, this group dynamic was very bad in El Paso. El Paso is 80% Hispanic, 15% white.

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Anonymous wrote:Did anyone read the article in the Wash Post on companies losing money on the Eastern Shore? It was very interesting. No matter who much is paid, Americans will not apply to be crab pickers. They've tried everything. Now, the companies are just losing money.

Except Americans used to do those jobs. Maybe employers need to pay what's necessary, and be willing to hire and train people to do the job. Using a group of people who are easily exploited because they're not here legally is wrong. If that's what it requires for crab, then people should stop eating crab.

What does “no matter what they pay” mean to you?

NP, it means some folks are easily fooled. No way are they paying enough: let’s be honest here, that’s phrased as if they’ve tried to pay substantial wages and no one showed up. BS! Notice the lack of actual $$$ figures!

Companies whose business models rely on screwing people should fail. I’d prefer crabbing returned to cottage industry status and wasn’t ruled by large players. Really strange living long enough to see Democrats standing up for blood suckers in agriculture and related industries.

Are you high? These crabbing companies are small family owned Maryland companies. Not sure what blood sucking companies you are referring to. It's hard work. They used to use temporary visas for employees, not illegal immigrants. Trump administration decreased them to the point that they couldn't get guest workers. Funny because Trump seemed to get enough for his company.

Your attempt at insult was telling of your ignorance. Understand that I'm the long ago PP with lots family and friends in big Ag (throughout the country, including, (gasp!) some very wealthy 'family company' folks on the Eastern Shore). 'Small family companies' is relative, especially when you're talking about operations that could be cottage industries if the government hasn't had the long-standing preference, including using legislation and regulatory forbearance, for consolidation. And maybe, just maybe, the crab industry should be smaller due to fisheries and environmental concerns? One thing I am sure of, there is no moral imperative to preserve the privileges of incumbents in the industry.

BTW, I'm no Trump fan, but I find it very disturbing that every time I'm even vaguely at variance with The Officially Approved Resistance to Trump position on things I get straw-manned into a Trump supporter. This is a discussion about issues and what we think about them, not some tribal d!ck measuring contest with obvious fault lines!

The guest worker program was better for everyone. There is large ag business and then there really are smaller family owned businesses. FYI, I don't consider a few million dollars to be a large family business. I actually consider that small. What's wrong with the guest worker program? Why is that not a viable option. If you are from MD, which I assume you aren't, you would know that MD has done quite a bit of environmental work around crabbing. My dad was a longshoreman so you aren't the only one with experience.

Public policy rule #1: no program is "better for everyone". Governments are picking and choosing winners and losers with their programs. The efforts to loosen labor laws in the crabbing industry go back decades and almost certainly forestalled some changes in the industry and accelerated others, i.e. consolidation. I don't see why, particularly with a democratic society, we should feel at all obligated to protect these peoples' bailiwicks. With a new government, changes in how labor markets work always is a possibility. I'm not sure that the current administration is on the path to fix problems, but given that we've had decades of divergence between worker productivity (dramatically increasing) and worker compensation (stable to declining) I'm inclined to be less than sympathetic to industries that have become addicted to the right to crap on fellow citizens.

I know all about MD environmental work (including Bay Program AND Bay Foundation, know the fault lines?) and I'm of the mind that some of it is good and some of it is bad. Again, programs are basically ways to pick winners and losers. Knowing one of the biggest polluters on the Eastern Shore (guess which industry, if you're interested in who is and isn't from MD!) means I'm familiar with their ability to buy off those who'd threaten them. But I'd again reiterate that the crab industry is a group of people who've had their way (and likely bought some people off) and I'd CONSIDER that their continued sweetheart deals result in environmental degradation, as the blue crab fishery is said by some to still be seriously degraded.

Anonymous wrote:Trump has his base riled up over illegal immigration.

I do think people should come into America legally, but I also can understand the desperation of people who simply want a better life for themselves and their families, just like America’s early settlers. I cannot imagine living in a place where the future holds nothing but poverty and the possibility of being murdered, which is what some of the immigrants from south of the border face in their home countries. I think we should help these people find a way for themselves here in America, show them how they can legally become a citizen without punishing them and separating families.

With that said, I’d like to know how illegal immigrants have personally impacted your life, whether good or bad. I live in the south and as far as I know, have not personally been affected by the illegal immigrants who I’m sure probably live here.

I hear all this hate against this group of people, they have been persecuted endlessly by Trump’s base, but aside from a sensational murder case or two, I don’t see what all the hype is about. Illegal immigrants seem to live a fairly underground life. They find a way to take care of themselves. And they must be doing so responsibly for the most part since they are supposedly a large group (millions) but you honestly never hear much about anything bad they’ve done once they’re in America. They actually seem to be law abiding inhabitants for the most part.

What has an illegal immigrant, regardless of where they’re from, done to impact your life?

One of the illegal immigrants killed my best friend's daughter, who was a best friend of my kid. Impacted my friend and my kid for the rest of their life. My friend's daughter, senior in HS, was driving with her friend, stopped at the red light, and illegal immigrant from Mexico, who was drunk, failed to stop on the red light, hit them from the back at the high speed, both girls died at the scene.

I worked at the state government agency for several years, and load of illegal immigrants who we required to serve, doubled my workload. without any additional pay.

The fact that a lot of immigrants from my country overstayed their legitimately issued visa had an impact on my parents who wanted to visit me and was denied tourist visa. My parents been in US several times, always returned in time, never had intent to stay in US (they still live in their country). They were denied visa multiple times.

What you posted in your last paragraph is absolutely false and contradictory to the facts.

I don't hate them, as I don't hate any person. But the impact of their presence in this country is huge.

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Anonymous wrote:Not me, but someone I know. She and her husband bought a SF house in Silver Spring more than 10 years ago, with one toddler at the time. Now she has two children nearing high school age, and the public school have gone downhill beyond belief. Just TERRIBLE. Scores far below the county average, with high ESOL and FARM rates, and at least a third certainly illegal. They can't afford private school, and can't afford a SF house in a better school district. They are seriously considering selling their house (which is really nice and in great shape) and buying an older townhouse in Bethesda for the same money.

Oh look it's the anti-SS poster from the real estate and MD schools thread whose migrated over into the politics forum.

Hi SS-hater poster! We see you!

Nope. That's someone else. I never to to the real estate forum.

Are you upset because I pointed out a negative impact of illegal immigration?

No I am rolling my eyes at someone who doesn't know Silver Spring very well. Love our vibrant diverse neighorhood and our vibrant diverse schools. My kids regularly test in the 96-99% on all standardized tests, sorry to burst your bubble! But we're happy people like you don't want to live here.

Sorry Jeff, I'll stop after this one so as not to derail thread.

So...you are unable to imagine that someone feels differently?

Anonymous wrote:Trump has his base riled up over illegal immigration.

I do think people should come into America legally, but I also can understand the desperation of people who simply want a better life for themselves and their families, just like America’s early settlers. I cannot imagine living in a place where the future holds nothing but poverty and the possibility of being murdered, which is what some of the immigrants from south of the border face in their home countries. I think we should help these people find a way for themselves here in America, show them how they can legally become a citizen without punishing them and separating families.

With that said, I’d like to know how illegal immigrants have personally impacted your life, whether good or bad. I live in the south and as far as I know, have not personally been affected by the illegal immigrants who I’m sure probably live here.

I hear all this hate against this group of people, they have been persecuted endlessly by Trump’s base, but aside from a sensational murder case or two, I don’t see what all the hype is about. Illegal immigrants seem to live a fairly underground life. They find a way to take care of themselves. And they must be doing so responsibly for the most part since they are supposedly a large group (millions) but you honestly never hear much about anything bad they’ve done once they’re in America. They actually seem to be law abiding inhabitants for the most part.

What has an illegal immigrant, regardless of where they’re from, done to impact your life?

I don't hate them at all.
I don't want them to make our schools bad by flooding them with their kids - it affects real estate prices negatively.
I have a strong suspicion that Dems will give them amnesty and I will have to share my hard earned Medicare and SS with them.
Out. All of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone read the article in the Wash Post on companies losing money on the Eastern Shore? It was very interesting. No matter who much is paid, Americans will not apply to be crab pickers. They've tried everything. Now, the companies are just losing money.

Except Americans used to do those jobs. Maybe employers need to pay what's necessary, and be willing to hire and train people to do the job. Using a group of people who are easily exploited because they're not here legally is wrong. If that's what it requires for crab, then people should stop eating crab.

What does “no matter what they pay” mean to you?

NP, it means some folks are easily fooled. No way are they paying enough: let’s be honest here, that’s phrased as if they’ve tried to pay substantial wages and no one showed up. BS! Notice the lack of actual $$$ figures!

Companies whose business models rely on screwing people should fail. I’d prefer crabbing returned to cottage industry status and wasn’t ruled by large players. Really strange living long enough to see Democrats standing up for blood suckers in agriculture and related industries.

Are you high? These crabbing companies are small family owned Maryland companies. Not sure what blood sucking companies you are referring to. It's hard work. They used to use temporary visas for employees, not illegal immigrants. Trump administration decreased them to the point that they couldn't get guest workers. Funny because Trump seemed to get enough for his company.

Your attempt at insult was telling of your ignorance. Understand that I'm the long ago PP with lots family and friends in big Ag (throughout the country, including, (gasp!) some very wealthy 'family company' folks on the Eastern Shore). 'Small family companies' is relative, especially when you're talking about operations that could be cottage industries if the government hasn't had the long-standing preference, including using legislation and regulatory forbearance, for consolidation. And maybe, just maybe, the crab industry should be smaller due to fisheries and environmental concerns? One thing I am sure of, there is no moral imperative to preserve the privileges of incumbents in the industry.

BTW, I'm no Trump fan, but I find it very disturbing that every time I'm even vaguely at variance with The Officially Approved Resistance to Trump position on things I get straw-manned into a Trump supporter. This is a discussion about issues and what we think about them, not some tribal d!ck measuring contest with obvious fault lines!

The guest worker program was better for everyone. There is large ag business and then there really are smaller family owned businesses. FYI, I don't consider a few million dollars to be a large family business. I actually consider that small. What's wrong with the guest worker program? Why is that not a viable option. If you are from MD, which I assume you aren't, you would know that MD has done quite a bit of environmental work around crabbing. My dad was a longshoreman so you aren't the only one with experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone read the article in the Wash Post on companies losing money on the Eastern Shore? It was very interesting. No matter who much is paid, Americans will not apply to be crab pickers. They've tried everything. Now, the companies are just losing money.

Except Americans used to do those jobs. Maybe employers need to pay what's necessary, and be willing to hire and train people to do the job. Using a group of people who are easily exploited because they're not here legally is wrong. If that's what it requires for crab, then people should stop eating crab.

What does “no matter what they pay” mean to you?

NP, it means some folks are easily fooled. No way are they paying enough: let’s be honest here, that’s phrased as if they’ve tried to pay substantial wages and no one showed up. BS! Notice the lack of actual $$$ figures!

Companies whose business models rely on screwing people should fail. I’d prefer crabbing returned to cottage industry status and wasn’t ruled by large players. Really strange living long enough to see Democrats standing up for blood suckers in agriculture and related industries.

Are you high? These crabbing companies are small family owned Maryland companies. Not sure what blood sucking companies you are referring to. It's hard work. They used to use temporary visas for employees, not illegal immigrants. Trump administration decreased them to the point that they couldn't get guest workers. Funny because Trump seemed to get enough for his company.

Your attempt at insult was telling of your ignorance. Understand that I'm the long ago PP with lots family and friends in big Ag (throughout the country, including, (gasp!) some very wealthy 'family company' folks on the Eastern Shore). 'Small family companies' is relative, especially when you're talking about operations that could be cottage industries if the government hasn't had the long-standing preference, including using legislation and regulatory forbearance, for consolidation. And maybe, just maybe, the crab industry should be smaller due to fisheries and environmental concerns? One thing I am sure of, there is no moral imperative to preserve the privileges of incumbents in the industry.

BTW, I'm no Trump fan, but I find it very disturbing that every time I'm even vaguely at variance with The Officially Approved Resistance to Trump position on things I get straw-manned into a Trump supporter. This is a discussion about issues and what we think about them, not some tribal d!ck measuring contest with obvious fault lines!

Anonymous wrote:^ we give out a million gren cards, about 140,000 of which are employment based. o.k. Is it Congress or the Executive that can raise the number of green cards than can be given out? Apparently there aren't enough green cards (permanent resident visas) available since there are so many immigrants here illegally.

You don't need to raise the number of green cards available, you need to

1) Raise the number of H-2A visas available (temporary migrant workers)
2) Allow those to be extended and perhaps allow people under that type of visa to be able to convert to an LPR (so maybe raise the number of employment based green cards I guess for this)
3) Vigorously pursue and prosecute and fine the hell out of employers hiring illegal workers
4) Increase # of immigration attorneys so people aren't wandering around in limbo forever.

I knew a bunch of students who overstayed their visas. Irish, mostly. They've had no impact on me, good or bad.

My housecleaner and the guy who cuts my grass are legal immigrants from Central and South America. They are extremely honest to do business with and hardworking. I don't know the immigration status of the people who work for them, but we pay fair wages for the work they do for us, as do the friends and family who've we've referred them to.