Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

It's absolutely terrifying that so many women on this thread are using "we were socialized this way" as an excuse for enduring abuse. You recognize the issue and yet use it as a crutch to justify why you stay in the situation? Of course no one should be abusing you, but it appears that the majority of you are your own worst enemy!

Its not just women on this thread. It's scientists all over the world.

Suck lack of education on this subject is astounding.

Education?

It's something that happens when you read extensively on a subject. Which you have obviously not done when it comes to this subject.

I have no clue what you are taking about. What is the education that you are taking about? Education as to why people are abused or become victims? Education as to why the phenomenon exists? Education about something else?

Anonymous wrote:^^^Please share this science that tells people how to avoid unhealthy relationships.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

It's absolutely terrifying that so many women on this thread are using "we were socialized this way" as an excuse for enduring abuse. You recognize the issue and yet use it as a crutch to justify why you stay in the situation? Of course no one should be abusing you, but it appears that the majority of you are your own worst enemy!

Its not just women on this thread. It's scientists all over the world.

Suck lack of education on this subject is astounding.

Education?

It's something that happens when you read extensively on a subject. Which you have obviously not done when it comes to this subject.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

It's absolutely terrifying that so many women on this thread are using "we were socialized this way" as an excuse for enduring abuse. You recognize the issue and yet use it as a crutch to justify why you stay in the situation? Of course no one should be abusing you, but it appears that the majority of you are your own worst enemy!

Its not just women on this thread. It's scientists all over the world.

Suck lack of education on this subject is astounding.

Education?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

It's absolutely terrifying that so many women on this thread are using "we were socialized this way" as an excuse for enduring abuse. You recognize the issue and yet use it as a crutch to justify why you stay in the situation? Of course no one should be abusing you, but it appears that the majority of you are your own worst enemy!

Its not just women on this thread. It's scientists all over the world.

Suck lack of education on this subject is astounding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

It's absolutely terrifying that so many women on this thread are using "we were socialized this way" as an excuse for enduring abuse. You recognize the issue and yet use it as a crutch to justify why you stay in the situation? Of course no one should be abusing you, but it appears that the majority of you are your own worst enemy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty sure you don't really understand healthy relationships.

And it's pretty obvious that most of the women on here who have been in abusive relationships don't understand abusive relationships so what's your point?

It's pretty clear very few abused or not understand the "signs" of abuse but like to think they can't become a victim because they "know better" or would leave the second he says "wow your brother is an invinsiderate dolt".

Here we go with the excuses again. Yes, if someone abuses you once and then twice and then a third time and you DO NOT LEAVE then you are part of your own problem.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

Yep.

It was the first time he ignored my request and made me seem insesetive for asking for anything. It was the first time he took it upon himself to tell me one of my projects was stupid. It was the first time he ate all my food when I was pregnant. It was the first time he came back from the store after multiple reminders/a text while he was there to buy me a few things, and then came back with nothing for me. It was every time he bought the complete opposite of what I asked for and told me why his choice was better then mine. It was the first time he refused to give me a massaged and insisted some jedi hurtful shit was better for me than what I was asking for. It was the first time he said I was a mean and angry person for getting upset that he messed anything up.

Those were the signs. He did not see me as my own person. They only got worse from there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

It's absolutely terrifying that so many women on this thread are using "we were socialized this way" as an excuse for enduring abuse. You recognize the issue and yet use it as a crutch to justify why you stay in the situation? Of course no one should be abusing you, but it appears that the majority of you are your own worst enemy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everything they do is a sign, in hindsight. Actually every single one of you have a "sign" in your relationship, but it is not a sign until he actually hits you.

I had some "signs" so I went to a therapist and we did couples therapy.

I was told, it's not what he does, it's your reaction.
I needed to figure out his love language and blah blah blah.
I needed to put more effort into the marriage since the kids were sucking my energy away from him.
I needed to make sure I was not keeping score with the chores.
I needed to make sure our sex life was not stale, and all that BS.

I spent 3 years with a therapist and a marriage counselor; they were told ALL THE SIGNS but they never said, hey this is toxic, you need to leave. All the Dr. Phil BS was fed to me, marriage is hard, raising kids are harder, your H is stressed you need to be a light place for him to land, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The think is my H was way nicer and kinder and involved with the kids than all my friends H's who never hit them. But, if they ever do, I have about 300 signs that showed they would.

this poster is exactly right. I was in a relationship where my partner was doing things that were absolutely unacceptable. Because he hadn't hit me (yet), the therapists pulled all of these "therapitic techniques out. I finally left because I simply decided that our 2 kids and I would not live with the unacceptable behaviors. Everyone on this thread is focusing on tbe wrong thing -- how do you know he will hit you - when the real question is for what reason is it OK to walk away?

The answer to that last question is, frankly, it is always OK to walk away for any reason. Feel uncomfortable? Demeaned? Constricted? Criticized? Unloved in the way you want to be lived? Nit exclusive enough or too exclusive?

As women, we have to have permission to seek out relationships on our terms, and that is a far broader thing than simply "is he going to hit me?"

Thanks, Captain Obvious. The real issue is that most of these women lack either self-esteem or any amount of critical thinking.

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.

+1

Women are socialized from very early to take it all upon themselves. We're in charge of keeping men happy. We're socialized to ignore our own good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty so
I'm sure I understand better than you - you who think 'all the signs exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive". You seem to think it's like magic to identify an unhealthy relationship. It's not. There has been a lot of research on it.

It's not magic, but it's very obvious to some of us. I don't know what it is. My only trouble with an abusive relationship was interfering when I felt that what was happening to my neighbor. She dropped the guy, he did turned out to be violent and showed up with a gun at my place. I did learn from that, but, at the same time, I was the only one, who saw it. Her friends saw a sweet guy, he was giving me creeps. I had similar feelings about school bullies in my kids school, before any signs, or a new executive, who mesmerized people, but looked like pure evil to me (and he turned out to be evil). Lots of people don't like to listen to their inner voice, they feel sorry for the person (be it spouse or parent, etc.) or have any other kind of "but" (I love him, he is my father, he is the father of my children, he is sick, he can't live without me). It that desire of control over you, that people don't feel or confuse with love. I had falling out with people, who would not leave their abuser (I don't believe in second chances, I can't be friends or friendly after the first).
At the same time, I would absolutely not notice any signs of cheating, even if they are obvious, so I have zero radar there, but I don't care.