Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:pp here again and OP's SIL and brother didn't act badly here. They acted the way they needed to.

And OP (from the sounds of it) didn't act badly either - sounds like she'll welcome their baby when it gets here and will try to move past it. She's just sharing her hurt feelings with us.

But, OP, please try to be understanding of what your SIL/brother are going through.

You call it "needing" something. I call it hurting your family. If I "need" space and don't call my friends for months or years, I should not be surprised if they are hurt or uninterested in hearing from me when I do get around to it. In fact, I have lived this scenario when I was drowning in work straight out of law school, and I lost friendships because of it. Finally got my head above water (aka got out of Biglaw) a few years in to find that all the relationships I'd ignored or half-assed were dead and no one wanted to reconnect. And it was my fault for being selfish and valuing my time and issues above others'.

Obviously there is no requirement that brother and SIL care about or even meet OP's kids or maintain a relationship with anyone. But OP has every right to be upset that they don't. And they should not be surprised if their choice has consequences.

Wow! You are comparing infertility with being busy at work? You REALLY don't get it and it shocks me that people could be so clueless.

Answer this. What if it wasn't infertility but a deep depression? Some people with depression can't get out of bed. Or when they do are barely able to function in a daily routine, let alone attend parties. (and let's call it what it really is - attending parties). would you have the same shitty self-entitled attitude? What if it was cancer and the SIL was getting chemo for a year and couldn't get out of bed? Then recovered and now resurfaces? Same awful view point? You're an ass and I can see why none of your friends were willing to forgive your brief hiatus.

OP, perhaps your brother and SIL did not handle their pain and grief in the best way - they didn't share with the family and pulled a disappearing act. However, I don't think you are coming from a place of compassion here. I wish you wouldn't take this as a personal affront against you and your kids, but rather their way of coping. And I hope that you can find a way to move forward and to help them engage their child in your family.

People who haven't dealt with infertility can't possibly understand how it feels. How hard it can be to attend kid-related events while knowing that's something that may never happen for you. Some people handle this better than others. I didn't withdraw when going through my treatments - I attended the baby showers and the birthday parties even though some days it was the last thing I wanted to do. However - while I kept it to myself, I had all sorts of dark thoughts and felt terrible resentment of my family and friends for conceiving easily and having healthy children, even though rationally I knew it was very unfair of me. Being pumped full of hormones certainly didn't help my emotional state. And neither did the inevitable "so why aren't you guys having babies, it's your turn" comments.

Anonymous wrote:Why should they be interested in your kids? No one thinks your kid is special except for you. Parents like you annoy so many people. Get over yourself!

AMEN!!!

Anonymous wrote:Yikes op. You are clearly lacking any semblance of empathy, and also have a knack for making other people’s issues all about you.

Her infertility is nobody’s business but your brother and SIL. They are in no way obligated to tell you. IF they do, it’s an honor and a show of trust that you can deal with that information with tact, kindness, and respect for their privacy.

I haven’t experienced infertility myself, but know a few friends who have confided in me about it and know how incredibly hard it is. It takes a toll on your mental and physical health, and is also like experiencing a loss, especially when seeing other families with children.

You say they have made everyone else’s lives miserable, but I think that’s just you making it about you again. They are just dealing with their own issues, and honestly, it sounds like their instinct to keep this information private was well-founded based on your reaction.

I know, but I’m just so mad. I mean, SIL May have been just given the news that her pregnancy didn’t “take”,after a month of injecting herself with hormones, having a needle painfully and under ultrasound, take eggs out of her ovaries, waiting to see if any of those eggs made it to cell stage, and having a procedure to put those cells into her uterus. Maybe a smash cake photo op wasn’t high on her (or his) priorities that day, after suffering what likely was one loss after many.

Maybe she was already at the end of her rope, and having you rave about parenthood being “true love” and you teasing about not being parents.

Deny it all yiu want, OP, but the fact that you are more upset about your brother not being there for your children tells more about what you feel about your relationship with your own brother. You won’t be satisfied until he adores your children, and you wont be satisfied (based on your response about “their own” children”)until he gives you the same, auntie experience. Your idea of a sibling adult relationship is based on children, and you’re even going so far as to call the relationship miserable because he’s not giving you what you want for YOUR children.

Having dealt with infertility and 2 late miscarriages, it is hard. We are in the adoption process now.

The worst thing I ever did for my mental health was go to a cousin's baby shower the week after my first miscarriage. It really affected me so my therapist advised not going to one again I felt ready. I also didn't talk about with DH's family as I didn't want to - that's my issue but I just come from a very buttoned up family. I also hate the when are you going to have a baby nags from his family. It's not like we haven't been trying for 8 years.

Please, all I ask from the other side is that you try and just show compassion. Please just love me, and forgive me for any wrongs you think I've done. I'm trying my best, which may not always be right, but I'm trying. I've also have to protect my mental health with guidance from professionals and support of my DH.

If you love your brother and SIL, forgive them and move on. Family is about love right?

Yikes op. You are clearly lacking any semblance of empathy, and also have a knack for making other people’s issues all about you.

Her infertility is nobody’s business but your brother and SIL. They are in no way obligated to tell you. IF they do, it’s an honor and a show of trust that you can deal with that information with tact, kindness, and respect for their privacy.

I haven’t experienced infertility myself, but know a few friends who have confided in me about it and know how incredibly hard it is. It takes a toll on your mental and physical health, and is also like experiencing a loss, especially when seeing other families with children.

You say they have made everyone else’s lives miserable, but I think that’s just you making it about you again. They are just dealing with their own issues, and honestly, it sounds like their instinct to keep this information private was well-founded based on your reaction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PSA for everyone here, because it seems to have hit too close to home for some of you: infertility does not give you a pass to be an asshole and never have to answer for it. Social rules (and consequences) still apply.

Counter PSA: someone being childless, or child free,does not give you the right to comment on their lack of children, their lifestyle, or the implications of their fertility (like OP has Done, blaming SILs infertility for the damaged relationships). The fact that your uterus has held a baby does not give YOU lisence to be an asshat to those whose haven’t.

Also, adopted children ARE the adoptive family’s children.

Oh, and spoken as a parent, no one is required to love your children, other than you, just because YOU think they are the second coming. It is up to you to cultivate the relationships that will last them a lifetime.

What? The brother and sil TOLD OP that's why they've been avoiding them...

Everyone is jumping all over OP and assigning deep meaning to wording that wa obviously chosen quickly and secondarily, for the purpose of conveying the facts to us. Obviously OP would not tell her brother "those aren't your own kids"; she's (presumably) not an idiot. She just finished telling us that they went through years and years of fertility treatments and failed IVFs, and is just saying she's sorry that none of those worked.

I'm not sure what you're on about in the third paragraph, but I certainly don't think my children are the second coming lol. But I love the HECK out of my siblings' and DH's siblings kids - and this is the case for most close, normal families. If you think it's not weird that they used to see each other / talk very regularly and then they suddenly dropped off the face off he earth and wouldn't even meet OP's children...I don't know what to tell you

And OP is incredibly tone deaf if she can’t appreciate that infertility was affecting her brother’s family, while the joy of motherhood was affecting hers.

Based on her reactions,I’m guessing she’s a “why aren’t you guys parents” person, as outlined in other posts. Dollars to donuts, that’s why brother dropped off.

She’s so upset that her brother can’t adore her children, without even being to acknowledge his hardship, or the fact his adopted children will be “his”. She also doesn’t seem to GAF that until the adopted child is home, it’s also not a given, so brother and SIL are still in a state of flux, and it’s atill a stressful time for them.

And I think it’s sweet that you think OP would say on here that they’re not brothers kids, but would never say it to him. I trust her little jabs and demeanor make it more than clear, without her saying it, because she’s clearly thinking it.

Here’s the thing about relationships: they work both ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PSA for everyone here, because it seems to have hit too close to home for some of you: infertility does not give you a pass to be an asshole and never have to answer for it. Social rules (and consequences) still apply.

Counter PSA: someone being childless, or child free,does not give you the right to comment on their lack of children, their lifestyle, or the implications of their fertility (like OP has Done, blaming SILs infertility for the damaged relationships). The fact that your uterus has held a baby does not give YOU lisence to be an asshat to those whose haven’t.

Also, adopted children ARE the adoptive family’s children.

Oh, and spoken as a parent, no one is required to love your children, other than you, just because YOU think they are the second coming. It is up to you to cultivate the relationships that will last them a lifetime.

What? The brother and sil TOLD OP that's why they've been avoiding them...

Everyone is jumping all over OP and assigning deep meaning to wording that wa obviously chosen quickly and secondarily, for the purpose of conveying the facts to us. Obviously OP would not tell her brother "those aren't your own kids"; she's (presumably) not an idiot. She just finished telling us that they went through years and years of fertility treatments and failed IVFs, and is just saying she's sorry that none of those worked.

I'm not sure what you're on about in the third paragraph, but I certainly don't think my children are the second coming lol. But I love the HECK out of my siblings' and DH's siblings kids - and this is the case for most close, normal families. If you think it's not weird that they used to see each other / talk very regularly and then they suddenly dropped off the face off he earth and wouldn't even meet OP's children...I don't know what to tell you

Anonymous wrote:PSA for everyone here, because it seems to have hit too close to home for some of you: infertility does not give you a pass to be an asshole and never have to answer for it. Social rules (and consequences) still apply.

Counter PSA: someone being childless, or child free,does not give you the right to comment on their lack of children, their lifestyle, or the implications of their fertility (like OP has Done, blaming SILs infertility for the damaged relationships). The fact that your uterus has held a baby does not give YOU lisence to be an asshat to those whose haven’t.

Also, adopted children ARE the adoptive family’s children.

Oh, and spoken as a parent, no one is required to love your children, other than you, just because YOU think they are the second coming. It is up to you to cultivate the relationships that will last them a lifetime.

PSA for everyone here, because it seems to have hit too close to home for some of you: infertility does not give you a pass to be an asshole and never have to answer for it. Social rules (and consequences) still apply.

Anonymous wrote:Some people manage to let go, being there for these kids etc but for some people it's just too hard.
Because YOU managed to maintain a friendship doesn't mean everybody has to.

This was not a friendship, it was immediate family (who were pretty close before this). That behavior is rude and hurtful, and while I agree forgiveness is appropriate here that also requires an apology and acknowledgement of having been selfish/wrong/having caused hurt on the part of the injuring party. To just expect to be able to pop back in at will without doing the damage control work, no matter what they were going through, is unreasonable. Again, I agree OP should forgive them and work on putting the hurt of the past behind, but that requires work from them as well. Infertility sucks, but does not give you a free pass to be rude, selfish, and never have to answer for it

Anonymous wrote:Why should they be interested in your kids? No one thinks your kid is special except for you. Parents like you annoy so many people. Get over yourself!

What a weird thing to say. Are you a friendless only child?

Some people manage to let go, being there for these kids etc but for some people it's just too hard.
Because YOU managed to maintain a friendship doesn't mean everybody has to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Infertility is not an excuse to check out. They should have been involved with their niece's/nephews.

I agree completely. It's one thing to have a hard time with pregnancy announcements, even to skip baby showers and the like. It's entirely another to completely reject and make zero effort to spend time around your nieces and nephews once they're actually here - real people (close family members!) who are growing and changing as individuals. They're no longer just amorphous "babies" that you don't have yourself at that point.. Having a hard time reacting joyfully to another pregnant announcement or a hard time being around someone when they're pregnant is one thing; avoiding your own nieces and nephews is another. That's absolutely offensive and wrong on their parts, and not excused by infertility.

Very well said by these posters.

And yes, I experienced infertility, but eventually did have children with interventions. I remember barely making it through a baby shower, then skipping future ones to preserve my sanity. But I still maintained friendships with pregnant friends, came to see the baby and brought gifts, stayed in the lives of my friends & their kids, etc. Of course I stayed in the lives of my siblings and their kids. That's not even a question.

*3

Anonymous wrote:All the people criticizing the brother and SIL--they are not writing in for advice. It doesn't actually matter whether their withdrawal was justified. OP is writing in, and the advice has to be to her. So, yes, she can feel self-righteous or nurse her hurt and offense, but what good will that do her? She now knows that her brother and his wife struggled with infertility for years. She can choose to have compassion for them, forgive them for the slight, and move forward, or she can choose to make it all about her and be right but isolated and angry. Personally, I'd choose the former. I wouldn't feel the need to punish my brother, or withhold affection from my niece or nephew. You don't have to impose consequences on them if you don't want to, and I wouldn't want to. Because I'd rather have my family be close than be right.

This view is too simple though. There is a LOT of hurt there - some people can't just pretend and suddenly act like everything is normal and fine with such a crazy background. If the brother/SIL were coming to them with a heartfelt apology and wanting to talk it out that's one thing...