Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re feminists who value comfort over the male gaze.

Women don't dress for men, women dress for other women, even the indignant frumpy ones. The indignant frumpy ones think they are "choosing not to care" when they are often hanging around with other women who "choose not to care" so basically they are sheeple just swinging in the other direction.

I personally make an effort most days because I like makeup, dresses, heels and all of that, but yeah, there are times I DGAF and wear soft clothes with elastic waistbands.

Women you view as frumpy are simply enlightened. Women who continue to fuss unnecessarily about these arbitrary and in some cases harmful “standards “ for womens’ appearance need to wake up. If you continue to waste time and energy on these things, that’s bad enough, but telling other women what they “need” to do is way out of line. You contribute to the objectification and oppression of women when you perpetuate these “standards “.

Focus on your health, physical and mental. The rest is nonsense cooked up to sell you products you do not need. Don’t be such a sucker.

Are women with messy and ugly homes enlightened?

Are women with dirty cars enlightened?

Are women with babies with spitup and slovenly clothes enlightened?

Are families with messy yards full of weeds enlightened?

I think being dressed in a neat and tidy way is one thing, and manis/pedis, hair curling, makeup, heels, and push up bras is another. These are only requirements for women, thus they are sexist.

None of those are requirements for women in our society. I know plenty of women who don't use/wear these things, or do so only to the extent to which suits them personally.

The title of this thread is "why are American women so frumpy"? To many people, it is indeed a requirement to do these things in order not to be considered frumpy. A woman in flats with limp hair and no makeup will certainly be indicted as a frump by many.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re feminists who value comfort over the male gaze.

Women don't dress for men, women dress for other women, even the indignant frumpy ones. The indignant frumpy ones think they are "choosing not to care" when they are often hanging around with other women who "choose not to care" so basically they are sheeple just swinging in the other direction.

I personally make an effort most days because I like makeup, dresses, heels and all of that, but yeah, there are times I DGAF and wear soft clothes with elastic waistbands.

Women you view as frumpy are simply enlightened. Women who continue to fuss unnecessarily about these arbitrary and in some cases harmful “standards “ for womens’ appearance need to wake up. If you continue to waste time and energy on these things, that’s bad enough, but telling other women what they “need” to do is way out of line. You contribute to the objectification and oppression of women when you perpetuate these “standards “.

Focus on your health, physical and mental. The rest is nonsense cooked up to sell you products you do not need. Don’t be such a sucker.

No, I am not objectifying women but it's funny to me that, like I said earlier the INDIGNANT frumpy women who are "choosing" not to care what they look like think they are making a choice to not be eye candy or whatever when you are just the other side of the same coin you are angry about. You dress frumpy for other WOMEN because it signals some kind of virtue and smugness about how you don't care what you look like because YOU ARE NOT EYE CANDY! YOU ARE BUCKING THE PATRIARCHY!!!!!!!!

I generally take pride in my appearance and if when I am better groomed and not in my soft clothes I am eye candy for other women or men well, OK. ::shrug:: I don't care if you don't care what you look like, I just care that I care what I look like.

Stop using this phrase. You've used it before and it's not a thing.

Let's take an example.

Size 2-6. Running around town in athleisure. Hair in a top knot.

Frumpy?

So if you're thin and fit you can't be frumpy?

Anonymous wrote:I found that the women in Europe do dress more feminine (dresses, skirts), but American women are more fit and athletic.

So, because you see people in tourist areas at the louvre in skirts?

All woman in Europe do not dress the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I think women are idiots. They spend so much time on inconsequential things while men run society. They can continue running on the hamster wheel. Let them distract themselves with waxing, coloring hair an injecting themselves with Botox. Those of us who are liberated will continue to be free.

I am free, though our current president seems to working up to putting my people back in chains and sending us into the cotton fields again. I personally think it is white women privilege to look awful and tell other women who are judged by their appearance up to and including our hair, in ways that have negative effects on our lives because of racism, that they are wrong for caring and that their goal of bucking the patriarchy in this way should be my goal, too. Intersectional feminism is a thing.

Np. You are inserting a racial component into the discussion, as valid as your point is.

Actually, I think she has a point. The messy bun is a perfect example of white hair privilege. AA women can’t even wear their own natural texture without having their professionalism questioned. AA women have to dress better to get ahead in corporate America, but they run the risk of being sexualized if they dress too well.

Social class also matters. When I worked with poor women of all races in the rural Deep South, PA, and WV, dress and careful grooming was a huge signifier of power or aspiration to power. I purposely dressed down in Kmart casual clothing initially, hoping to not seem pretentious and build rapport. A coworker advised me that clients would not see me as an authority in my field if I was not very well-dressed. And she was right. A well-fitted suit meant I was an outsider, but an outsider had the keys to the kingdom.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I think women are idiots. They spend so much time on inconsequential things while men run society. They can continue running on the hamster wheel. Let them distract themselves with waxing, coloring hair an injecting themselves with Botox. Those of us who are liberated will continue to be free.

I am free, though our current president seems to working up to putting my people back in chains and sending us into the cotton fields again. I personally think it is white women privilege to look awful and tell other women who are judged by their appearance up to and including our hair, in ways that have negative effects on our lives because of racism, that they are wrong for caring and that their goal of bucking the patriarchy in this way should be my goal, too. Intersectional feminism is a thing.

Np. You are inserting a racial component into the discussion, as valid as your point is.

Np. I think it applies, though. I recently had "white feminism" explained to me on the 4th of July, actually. White people, even the well meaning, kind hearted, truly have no clue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Personally I think women are idiots. They spend so much time on inconsequential things while men run society. They can continue running on the hamster wheel. Let them distract themselves with waxing, coloring hair an injecting themselves with Botox. Those of us who are liberated will continue to be free.

I am free, though our current president seems to working up to putting my people back in chains and sending us into the cotton fields again. I personally think it is white women privilege to look awful and tell other women who are judged by their appearance up to and including our hair, in ways that have negative effects on our lives because of racism, that they are wrong for caring and that their goal of bucking the patriarchy in this way should be my goal, too. Intersectional feminism is a thing.

Np. You are inserting a racial component into the discussion, as valid as your point is.

Anonymous wrote:Personally I think women are idiots. They spend so much time on inconsequential things while men run society. They can continue running on the hamster wheel. Let them distract themselves with waxing, coloring hair an injecting themselves with Botox. Those of us who are liberated will continue to be free.

I am free, though our current president seems to working up to putting my people back in chains and sending us into the cotton fields again. I personally think it is white women privilege to look awful and tell other women who are judged by their appearance up to and including our hair, in ways that have negative effects on our lives because of racism, that they are wrong for caring and that their goal of bucking the patriarchy in this way should be my goal, too. Intersectional feminism is a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re feminists who value comfort over the male gaze.

Women don't dress for men, women dress for other women, even the indignant frumpy ones. The indignant frumpy ones think they are "choosing not to care" when they are often hanging around with other women who "choose not to care" so basically they are sheeple just swinging in the other direction.

I personally make an effort most days because I like makeup, dresses, heels and all of that, but yeah, there are times I DGAF and wear soft clothes with elastic waistbands.

Women you view as frumpy are simply enlightened. Women who continue to fuss unnecessarily about these arbitrary and in some cases harmful “standards “ for womens’ appearance need to wake up. If you continue to waste time and energy on these things, that’s bad enough, but telling other women what they “need” to do is way out of line. You contribute to the objectification and oppression of women when you perpetuate these “standards “.

Focus on your health, physical and mental. The rest is nonsense cooked up to sell you products you do not need. Don’t be such a sucker.

No, I am not objectifying women but it's funny to me that, like I said earlier the INDIGNANT frumpy women who are "choosing" not to care what they look like think they are making a choice to not be eye candy or whatever when you are just the other side of the same coin you are angry about. You dress frumpy for other WOMEN because it signals some kind of virtue and smugness about how you don't care what you look like because YOU ARE NOT EYE CANDY! YOU ARE BUCKING THE PATRIARCHY!!!!!!!!

I generally take pride in my appearance and if when I am better groomed and not in my soft clothes I am eye candy for other women or men well, OK. ::shrug:: I don't care if you don't care what you look like, I just care that I care what I look like.

Because it's stinking hot here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We’re feminists who value comfort over the male gaze.

Women don't dress for men, women dress for other women, even the indignant frumpy ones. The indignant frumpy ones think they are "choosing not to care" when they are often hanging around with other women who "choose not to care" so basically they are sheeple just swinging in the other direction.

I personally make an effort most days because I like makeup, dresses, heels and all of that, but yeah, there are times I DGAF and wear soft clothes with elastic waistbands.

Women you view as frumpy are simply enlightened. Women who continue to fuss unnecessarily about these arbitrary and in some cases harmful “standards “ for womens’ appearance need to wake up. If you continue to waste time and energy on these things, that’s bad enough, but telling other women what they “need” to do is way out of line. You contribute to the objectification and oppression of women when you perpetuate these “standards “.

Focus on your health, physical and mental. The rest is nonsense cooked up to sell you products you do not need. Don’t be such a sucker.

Are women with messy and ugly homes enlightened?

Are women with dirty cars enlightened?

Are women with babies with spitup and slovenly clothes enlightened?

Are families with messy yards full of weeds enlightened?

I think being dressed in a neat and tidy way is one thing, and manis/pedis, hair curling, makeup, heels, and push up bras is another. These are only requirements for women, thus they are sexist.

None of those are requirements for women in our society. I know plenty of women who don't use/wear these things, or do so only to the extent to which suits them personally.

It is certainly not true for all or most American women that they are frumpy, whatever that means. But, let's assume some are. Here is my take on it. After WWII most American women went bac home and stayed at home. They dressed up if they went out. In Europe, women had to work and most worked right after WWII. So you needed to look decent/nice. Nonetheless, still similar dress code. Then something happened in the 80s, I think. Some kind of frump style became the norm. I have pictures of my European mom and my US MIL, same age, and in late 1960s, both are dressed in pics pretty similar. Both had their hair done, my mom worked, MIL was SAHM. Both dressed very stylish. Both went frumpy in the 80s. So, I suppose if we assume that US women are "more" frumpy, is that nor actually a sign of confidence? That you don't need to dress to impress, that you are fine in your body, that you are still not living so that men think you are nice looking? Maybe we should ask ourselves, why are European women getting dressed up that much to go and buy a loaf of bread? And if you are going to make sweeping generalization, Europe is not some fashion unified group. Most women that go to local produce markets are pretty frumpy in my mom's country.

Anonymous wrote:Because there are so many girly men. It’s depressing for us.

Marrying a hot guy did result in me dressing sexier outside of work and putting more effort into my hair and skin. But he met me in jeans at age 40. And our first dates were all athletic though I was overweight.

I like comfort, but tossing out old clothing can really help your mood. I don’t wear anything that is faded or has lost its elasticity/shape. I have two underwear drawers. One has serviceable items for work and leisure. The other has lingerie style items. It’s amazing how different the two make me feel.

Because there are so many girly men. It’s depressing for us.