Anonymous
05/30/2018 07:28
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
And yet the birth rate has dropped significantly.
And how do you know that's bc of expenses rather than just lesser interest in having babies?
My friends and I LOVE babies..but how can we pay student loans, $2K/mo RENT , $2K daycare with men who are mamma's boys and not willing to grow up?
Young women are expected to make equal financial contributions , be excited to work F/T and then come home and do 95% of childcare and housework with little/no help from anyone, and go to the gym or run marathons with DH, and then be ready for sex at a moment's notice.
It's NOT the lack of interest in having babies, its the LACK OF RESOURCES (financial, physical, emotional, etc) that are affecting the birthrate.
Husband dies is a worry buy life insurance and you get SS kids under 18.
In a divorce SAHM to a rich husband with no pre-Nup and kids becomes a rich women while husband ends up broke.
NP.. I will add.... Women these days have higher expectations of life than even 30 years ago. We want choices, and we don't want to be the ones having to do most of the work at home plus a FT job. Some women want a FT job even if they have kids, and trying to do that with more than one or two kids and not much help in the home front is too much work. Why would a women purposefully put themselves in that kind of position.
Plus I think it's important for women to be able to support themselves if something should happen to the husband (be it divorce or death). Can't do that if you quit your job early in your career to be a sahm. You need to put in several years of work to get on a career trajectory that will allow you to step back in at a level enough to get decent pay. Hard to do that if you leave a career in your 20's.
30/50 years ago there weren't as many choices for women as there are now. I would encourage my DD to wait for marriage and kids, not for money necessarily, but just to establish her own identity and career.
Anonymous
05/29/2018 20:21
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
And yet the birth rate has dropped significantly.
And how do you know that's bc of expenses rather than just lesser interest in having babies?
My friends and I LOVE babies..but how can we pay student loans, $2K/mo RENT , $2K daycare with men who are mamma's boys and not willing to grow up?
Young women are expected to make equal financial contributions , be excited to work F/T and then come home and do 95% of childcare and housework with little/no help from anyone, and go to the gym or run marathons with DH, and then be ready for sex at a moment's notice.
It's NOT the lack of interest in having babies, its the LACK OF RESOURCES (financial, physical, emotional, etc) that are affecting the birthrate.
NP.. I will add.... Women these days have higher expectations of life than even 30 years ago. We want choices, and we don't want to be the ones having to do most of the work at home plus a FT job. Some women want a FT job even if they have kids, and trying to do that with more than one or two kids and not much help in the home front is too much work. Why would a women purposefully put themselves in that kind of position.
Plus I think it's important for women to be able to support themselves if something should happen to the husband (be it divorce or death). Can't do that if you quit your job early in your career to be a sahm. You need to put in several years of work to get on a career trajectory that will allow you to step back in at a level enough to get decent pay. Hard to do that if you leave a career in your 20's.
30/50 years ago there weren't as many choices for women as there are now. I would encourage my DD to wait for marriage and kids, not for money necessarily, but just to establish her own identity and career.
Anonymous
05/29/2018 20:06
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
And yet the birth rate has dropped significantly.
And how do you know that's bc of expenses rather than just lesser interest in having babies?
My friends and I LOVE babies..but how can we pay student loans, $2K/mo RENT , $2K daycare with men who are mamma's boys and not willing to grow up?
Young women are expected to make equal financial contributions , be excited to work F/T and then come home and do 95% of childcare and housework with little/no help from anyone, and go to the gym or run marathons with DH, and then be ready for sex at a moment's notice.
It's NOT the lack of interest in having babies, its the LACK OF RESOURCES (financial, physical, emotional, etc) that are affecting the birthrate.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:37
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
I'm in my mid-50s and have been giving this topic some thought lately. Now I live in flyover country, but bear in mind that even though the COL is lower, good, well-paying jobs are increasingly scarce.
When I was a girl growing up in the late 60s & 1970s, all my (widowed, working, Catholic) mom ever talked about was having me graduate college and then get married. I was fortunate to have Social Security until age 18 and a small inheritance from a relative to ensure I graduated college debt-free. I lived at home until I got married a couple of years later. That was not unusual, and my job at the time would have made it very difficult to afford rent - though I could have gotten a couple of roommates and an apartment.
My kids are relatively young for my age and I have seen so much over the past 30 years regarding workforce changes and career fields disappearing. I never really discuss marriage and kids with my own children, except to say that those are goals for when one has achieved some career milestones, acquired some savings, and been in a loving relationship for an extended time.
We talk a lot about career options, owning one's own business, money management, avoiding debt, saving, etc. DH and I hope that each of our kids can graduate college without debt and the older two are on their way to doing that.
Overall, I would discourage my kids from marrying in their 20s and I would never have the conversations with my daughter that my mom had with me. It's very important to me that my kids have good educations, stable career options and no debt coming out of college. The world I see from this vantage point is not a kind one to young people starting out, even in flyover country. So yes, I do think marriage and family life will undergo some very significant changes over the next 5 to 30 years. It's unfortunate, but it's a reality we should recognize and deal with accordingly.
When I was a girl growing up in the late 60s & 1970s, all my (widowed, working, Catholic) mom ever talked about was having me graduate college and then get married. I was fortunate to have Social Security until age 18 and a small inheritance from a relative to ensure I graduated college debt-free. I lived at home until I got married a couple of years later. That was not unusual, and my job at the time would have made it very difficult to afford rent - though I could have gotten a couple of roommates and an apartment.
My kids are relatively young for my age and I have seen so much over the past 30 years regarding workforce changes and career fields disappearing. I never really discuss marriage and kids with my own children, except to say that those are goals for when one has achieved some career milestones, acquired some savings, and been in a loving relationship for an extended time.
We talk a lot about career options, owning one's own business, money management, avoiding debt, saving, etc. DH and I hope that each of our kids can graduate college without debt and the older two are on their way to doing that.
Overall, I would discourage my kids from marrying in their 20s and I would never have the conversations with my daughter that my mom had with me. It's very important to me that my kids have good educations, stable career options and no debt coming out of college. The world I see from this vantage point is not a kind one to young people starting out, even in flyover country. So yes, I do think marriage and family life will undergo some very significant changes over the next 5 to 30 years. It's unfortunate, but it's a reality we should recognize and deal with accordingly.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:25
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
And yet the birth rate has dropped significantly.
And how do you know that's bc of expenses rather than just lesser interest in having babies?
I wouldn't presume to know. All of the articles I have read on this phenomena suggest that reasons are myriad. Sounds right to me. I'm sure high expectations, high costs, student loans, current environmental and political climate, the fact babies are boner killers, etc. all contribute.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:19
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
And yet the birth rate has dropped significantly.
And how do you know that's bc of expenses rather than just lesser interest in having babies?
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:18
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
And yet the birth rate has dropped significantly.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:16
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Haven't read all 7 pgs -- but haven't people been saying this for generations? Don't know how our kids will ever get married, buy a house, have kids bc it's sooooo expensive now. And yet every generation manages.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:15
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
College is too expensive. Expectations are too high in urban areas in terms of activities, enrichment etc.
We better figure it out because we are below replacement age reproduction.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 17:12
Subject: Re:Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I've been wildly fortunate so I say this as an observer and not as a critique, but it does seem people are willing to make fewer sacrifices for children.
Societal expectations of what parents should provide, both material and emotional, for their children have greatly increased. Parents are expected to spend more time with their children now than 40 years ago. Except most women work now. Kids are not really allowed to roam free. You can chalk this up to parental decisions, but this is a collective phenomena. So there are more scheduled activities, which require a personal chauffeur. And car seats are required, which require a bigger vehicle. You can't feed kids a turkey sandwich with chips anymore. And college. College is too expensive for kids to pay on their own. Guess who is expected to pay?
Don't tell me parents aren't making sacrifices for their children. Literally everything I do all day long with the exception of 30 minutes in the evening is for my children. You don't know what you are talking about.
I also have multiple children, so why would I know less of what I am talking about than you are?
You also misread my post, btw. My claim was that people did not want to make sacrifices, so they stopped having children or at least multiple children. I never said people who had children were not sacrificing.
I'm sorry things are so difficult for you, and I also happen to agree with you about some of this ivy league preschool syndrome stuff, but your response was kind of a non-sequitur. And I am not sure how you could possibly conclude whether or not an anonymous internet poster "knows what they are talking about."
Because you are making a really big generalization about people sacrificing for their children without any data. College costs have vastly outpaced inflation (this is well documented). The cost of child care has also grown faster than inflation. (https://www.wsj.com/articles/soaring-child-care-costs-squeeze-families-1467415411). The cost of health care has grown much faster than inflation. Yet wages are stagnant (well documented). Parents are sacrificing for their kids. But you can't squeeze blood from a turnip.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 16:31
Subject: Re:Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Also, I feed my kids turkey sandwiches with chips (albeit usually of the "pita chip" variety) all the freaking time.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 16:30
Subject: Re:Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I've been wildly fortunate so I say this as an observer and not as a critique, but it does seem people are willing to make fewer sacrifices for children.
Societal expectations of what parents should provide, both material and emotional, for their children have greatly increased. Parents are expected to spend more time with their children now than 40 years ago. Except most women work now. Kids are not really allowed to roam free. You can chalk this up to parental decisions, but this is a collective phenomena. So there are more scheduled activities, which require a personal chauffeur. And car seats are required, which require a bigger vehicle. You can't feed kids a turkey sandwich with chips anymore. And college. College is too expensive for kids to pay on their own. Guess who is expected to pay?
Don't tell me parents aren't making sacrifices for their children. Literally everything I do all day long with the exception of 30 minutes in the evening is for my children. You don't know what you are talking about.
I also have multiple children, so why would I know less of what I am talking about than you are?
You also misread my post, btw. My claim was that people did not want to make sacrifices, so they stopped having children or at least multiple children. I never said people who had children were not sacrificing.
I'm sorry things are so difficult for you, and I also happen to agree with you about some of this ivy league preschool syndrome stuff, but your response was kind of a non-sequitur. And I am not sure how you could possibly conclude whether or not an anonymous internet poster "knows what they are talking about."
Anonymous
05/27/2018 14:22
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PBJ, egg salad and tuna (I buy Safe Catch).
Yes, that sounds like a well-rounded diet that will sustain my children for years.
Excellent demonstration of the mentality some are describing. I’m very much on board for changes to US society that will benefit all parents, but some of it is comoleteky unrealistic standards which CAN be ignored.
My kids eat more than sandwiches, just for the record.
Yes, and mine eat plenty of junk food. More than plenty. We don't eat organic at all and we eat cheaply. But society expects people to feed their children healthy food now. That is a fact. And healthy food costs more than junk, overall. (There are many exceptions and we use these extensively.)
Except for immediate threat to life danger, I'm a pretty relaxed parent. But it is harder to be a parent now. Not as hard as some people make it out to be, but harder.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 14:11
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PBJ, egg salad and tuna (I buy Safe Catch).
Yes, that sounds like a well-rounded diet that will sustain my children for years.
Excellent demonstration of the mentality some are describing. I’m very much on board for changes to US society that will benefit all parents, but some of it is comoleteky unrealistic standards which CAN be ignored.
My kids eat more than sandwiches, just for the record.
Anonymous
05/27/2018 13:47
Subject: Are we reaching a point where getting married/having children/owning home is just to damn expensive?
Anonymous wrote:PBJ, egg salad and tuna (I buy Safe Catch).
Yes, that sounds like a well-rounded diet that will sustain my children for years.