Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the walk to the entrance from where the other entrance was supposed to be is truly NBD than why aren't they building the southern entrance and saying people will just have to walk down from the north?

I'm really asking, I'm not being snarky. Because right now it just seems like they're sticking it to the people that have already built in the south for the purposes of still enticing developers for the to be built area in the north.

I think they found that the southern mezzanine was more expensive to build than the northern one.

The south mezzanine costs about $10M more than the north because it had an extra ramp. In the grand scheme of the project it’s a small difference.

The real reason is that more of the tax revenue is associated with the north and they can’t affort to lose that one. The city believes (correctly, based on data) that commercial development only happen within about 1/4-1/3 mile of the station entrance, so deleting the north mezzanine means no development of the existing shopping center and no commercial tax revenue. Not doing the south also means this, but to a smaller extent and more impacting people who are already stuck versus hypothetical future residents and businesses who can still choose not to come because they haven’t built yet.

Completely agreed. Too bad it their sneakiness comes at the expense of the early adopters (the people in the south). I do think though that we all need to DEMAND that the city fix the issue with the association serving people who are blind. It is completely unacceptable that our city leaders knowingly duped them.

They have also dropped the tax contributions toward the station of the people in PY south. So I take it this is admission that the benefits metro access exceeded the cost of the tax contribution for those folks? They did not say that when the contribution was discussed, IIRC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And West Street to Commonwealth is basically one long block. Could have been time to get through the signal. Really, this is a city (yes), a backup for one long block by the metro station, at peak of PM rush hour is a cause for the City to revise it's approach? I don't think so. Perhaps you would be happier in Ashburn? Or Omaha?

Huh, you're too slick for me because I sure don't "get" your reference to Ashburn or Omaha.

But since from West to Commonwealth is over 0.6 of a mile, I also don't "get" your reference to one long block. That sure is a long block! I guess we make them different here in Alexandria, don't we! I have a hard time believing that anyone can make that in one light … and I don't necessarily think it would be wise for anyone to try. But why don't you do it? Let me know in advance and I'll arrange for Alexandria PD there to observe your effort! That would help me towards my goal of getting at least one more moron off the streets!

A block for me is defined by cross streets, not distance. And that the backup was likely due to the light was precisely my point. IOW not due to lack of street capacity beyond. I mean if the City can improve the functioning of the intersection, without making it worse for safety, great. But I can't see slowing down development because sometimes drivers need to wait through a light cycle.

My reference was that those are the kinds of places built to have zero delay at intersections. Living in a dense, close in area, with all the advantages it has, comes with some (IMHO) minor tradeoffs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except to get to those metro stations, I would have to travel 30 minutes in the morning in the opposite direction of where I am going and use neighborhood road cut through just to make it to the station in 30 minutes from my location in Alexandria City. But the King St and Braddock Rd stations are only a 10 minute drive. With the bus, why should I spend 40 minutes on the bus just to spend another 30 on the metro?

Now if they put in parking at Potomac Yards, I would see more incentive to use metro. But then again, the cost of metro is high enough at this point for round trip during rush hour that I could just pay to drive downtown and park and the difference between costs is pretty small.

So if there was a parking garage at PY, you wouldn't use it anyway. That might be one hint why they won't build it. Note also, if you did use it, it would draw you to drive in to a dense area, which makes no sense. Plus putting a big parking garage right next to the station would both preclude putting offices/apts at that site, and also make it less pleasant for people from slightly further to walk there.

I think you can't read. The FP clearly says that it would be an incentive to use Metro. I highlighted the statement to help you out. Now the FP also indicates that cost would be a factor and I agree that it should be. We want to ENCOURAGE people to take metro, not discourage it. We should make parking as low cost as feasible to further that effort.

Of course, much of what you're saying, PP, is problematic. On the one hand you don't like a garage to handle current capacity because it would be "less pleasant" yet on the other hand you are, instead, suggesting that they build a new building drawing even more people into the area and which would be even "less pleasant." How does that even make sense? Well, I know to you it makes sense but the rest of us are logical and disagree.

Many of the people who go to a new office building will take transit, some will walk or bike. Everyone headed to a garage will drive. That is why generally metro garages are not put in dense areas, buildings are put there instead. FCDOT fought to keep metro garages away from the Tysons SL stations. The best place for metro garages is end of line stations, in less walkable areas. Like Huntington.

BTW, by express bus plus metro I can get from West Alexandria to L'Enfant plaza in about 40 minutes. Your ride in for the bus option is not warranted.

Uh, PP, you're arguing with so many people that you're not keeping us all straight. And I agree with the poster that 40 minutes (walk to stop, wait for bus, ride bus, wait in traffic to get down Duke or King, offload at KS Metro) is an accurate estimate since you asked. We definitely need a garage for people like me and the other poster who would like to use Metro.

It seems with your argument we can't win for losing. You slam us because we don't take Metro but you won't concede that we need parking in order to do so.

People like you (NIMW - Not In My World) are worse than NIMBYs. At least a NIMBY is defending territory. You are defending a lifestyle that only you live and you cannot imagine anyone else living differently.

Where are you going from? Most of West Alexandria, and North Ridge as well I think, you would not take a bus to KS metro to get to DC. You would take an express bus to the Pentagon, and get the metro there. That's faster, because your bus uses the HOV lanes, and you are much closer to DC when you get on the metro.

And I am not slamming you for not taking metro. I am defending the decision to not build a commuter garage at the new PY metro. Using inner metro stations for park and ride commuters instead of as development hubs is a bad tradeoff (you will note there are no such garages in the Rosslyn - Ballston corridor, and I believe Arlington wants to develop their EFC lot)

BTW, I am pretty sure there WILL be private garages in the PY North development where you can probably pay to park and then walk to the metro - just as now you can park at a private garage in Old Town, and walk to KS metro. I guess you only want to drive to metro if you can park right next to it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the walk to the entrance from where the other entrance was supposed to be is truly NBD than why aren't they building the southern entrance and saying people will just have to walk down from the north?

I'm really asking, I'm not being snarky. Because right now it just seems like they're sticking it to the people that have already built in the south for the purposes of still enticing developers for the to be built area in the north.

I think they found that the southern mezzanine was more expensive to build than the northern one.

The south mezzanine costs about $10M more than the north because it had an extra ramp. In the grand scheme of the project it’s a small difference.

The real reason is that more of the tax revenue is associated with the north and they can’t affort to lose that one. The city believes (correctly, based on data) that commercial development only happen within about 1/4-1/3 mile of the station entrance, so deleting the north mezzanine means no development of the existing shopping center and no commercial tax revenue. Not doing the south also means this, but to a smaller extent and more impacting people who are already stuck versus hypothetical future residents and businesses who can still choose not to come because they haven’t built yet.

So it just confirms they're being scummy. God I really hate this city right now. Like deep down in my guts hate for the City of Alexandria. And I don't even live in Potomac Yards!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the walk to the entrance from where the other entrance was supposed to be is truly NBD than why aren't they building the southern entrance and saying people will just have to walk down from the north?

I'm really asking, I'm not being snarky. Because right now it just seems like they're sticking it to the people that have already built in the south for the purposes of still enticing developers for the to be built area in the north.

I think they found that the southern mezzanine was more expensive to build than the northern one.

The south mezzanine costs about $10M more than the north because it had an extra ramp. In the grand scheme of the project it’s a small difference.

The real reason is that more of the tax revenue is associated with the north and they can’t affort to lose that one. The city believes (correctly, based on data) that commercial development only happen within about 1/4-1/3 mile of the station entrance, so deleting the north mezzanine means no development of the existing shopping center and no commercial tax revenue. Not doing the south also means this, but to a smaller extent and more impacting people who are already stuck versus hypothetical future residents and businesses who can still choose not to come because they haven’t built yet.

Completely agreed. Too bad it their sneakiness comes at the expense of the early adopters (the people in the south). I do think though that we all need to DEMAND that the city fix the issue with the association serving people who are blind. It is completely unacceptable that our city leaders knowingly duped them.

Anonymous wrote:And West Street to Commonwealth is basically one long block. Could have been time to get through the signal. Really, this is a city (yes), a backup for one long block by the metro station, at peak of PM rush hour is a cause for the City to revise it's approach? I don't think so. Perhaps you would be happier in Ashburn? Or Omaha?

Huh, you're too slick for me because I sure don't "get" your reference to Ashburn or Omaha.

But since from West to Commonwealth is over 0.6 of a mile, I also don't "get" your reference to one long block. That sure is a long block! I guess we make them different here in Alexandria, don't we! I have a hard time believing that anyone can make that in one light … and I don't necessarily think it would be wise for anyone to try. But why don't you do it? Let me know in advance and I'll arrange for Alexandria PD there to observe your effort! That would help me towards my goal of getting at least one more moron off the streets!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except to get to those metro stations, I would have to travel 30 minutes in the morning in the opposite direction of where I am going and use neighborhood road cut through just to make it to the station in 30 minutes from my location in Alexandria City. But the King St and Braddock Rd stations are only a 10 minute drive. With the bus, why should I spend 40 minutes on the bus just to spend another 30 on the metro?

Now if they put in parking at Potomac Yards, I would see more incentive to use metro. But then again, the cost of metro is high enough at this point for round trip during rush hour that I could just pay to drive downtown and park and the difference between costs is pretty small.

So if there was a parking garage at PY, you wouldn't use it anyway. That might be one hint why they won't build it. Note also, if you did use it, it would draw you to drive in to a dense area, which makes no sense. Plus putting a big parking garage right next to the station would both preclude putting offices/apts at that site, and also make it less pleasant for people from slightly further to walk there.

I think you can't read. The FP clearly says that it would be an incentive to use Metro. I highlighted the statement to help you out. Now the FP also indicates that cost would be a factor and I agree that it should be. We want to ENCOURAGE people to take metro, not discourage it. We should make parking as low cost as feasible to further that effort.

Of course, much of what you're saying, PP, is problematic. On the one hand you don't like a garage to handle current capacity because it would be "less pleasant" yet on the other hand you are, instead, suggesting that they build a new building drawing even more people into the area and which would be even "less pleasant." How does that even make sense? Well, I know to you it makes sense but the rest of us are logical and disagree.

Many of the people who go to a new office building will take transit, some will walk or bike. Everyone headed to a garage will drive. That is why generally metro garages are not put in dense areas, buildings are put there instead. FCDOT fought to keep metro garages away from the Tysons SL stations. The best place for metro garages is end of line stations, in less walkable areas. Like Huntington.

BTW, by express bus plus metro I can get from West Alexandria to L'Enfant plaza in about 40 minutes. Your ride in for the bus option is not warranted.

Uh, PP, you're arguing with so many people that you're not keeping us all straight. And I agree with the poster that 40 minutes (walk to stop, wait for bus, ride bus, wait in traffic to get down Duke or King, offload at KS Metro) is an accurate estimate since you asked. We definitely need a garage for people like me and the other poster who would like to use Metro.

It seems with your argument we can't win for losing. You slam us because we don't take Metro but you won't concede that we need parking in order to do so.

People like you (NIMW - Not In My World) are worse than NIMBYs. At least a NIMBY is defending territory. You are defending a lifestyle that only you live and you cannot imagine anyone else living differently.

And West Street to Commonwealth is basically one long block. Could have been time to get through the signal. Really, this is a city (yes), a backup for one long block by the metro station, at peak of PM rush hour is a cause for the City to revise it's approach? I don't think so. Perhaps you would be happier in Ashburn? Or Omaha?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We aren't an urban area. We are a suburb. That's how the City was set up with the exception of Old Town.

Aside from Old Town, Del Ray, although less dense, is urban in form. Carlisle was built as an urban area, and PY will be as well. Arlandria is semi-urban. Much of the West End, though not urban in layout, is very dense, and to be liveable at all needs to become more urban in form, and will.
That still leaves a bunch of suburban enclaves, which will remain suburban, but we can't run the whole city as a suburb.

BTW, I checked the traffic on google maps this AM, while riding the bus (you know, the one you can't ride). Green everywhere, except for for the highways leading to DC, and Quaker leading to the King intersection. Despite the density, traffic flows fine. Fact is we are a City with many people using transit, some walking and biking, and many or most drivers having uncongested routes.

DP Honest question: are you color blind?

I don't know when you do your mysterious checking of Google maps but I can tell you that this afternoon at 5:19 pm, traffic was completely backed up from West Street to beyond Commonwealth on Braddock Road heading East. And at 7:54 am traffic was backed up from Russell Road to past King/Quaker all the way up to Minnie Howard.

You are delusional if you think that "traffic flows fine".

I checked my phone about 8:10 AM or so. The backups must have cleared out. And no, I am not at color blind, and regularly use Google traffic to plan driving routes, and have no difficulty interpreting the traffic colors.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except to get to those metro stations, I would have to travel 30 minutes in the morning in the opposite direction of where I am going and use neighborhood road cut through just to make it to the station in 30 minutes from my location in Alexandria City. But the King St and Braddock Rd stations are only a 10 minute drive. With the bus, why should I spend 40 minutes on the bus just to spend another 30 on the metro?

Now if they put in parking at Potomac Yards, I would see more incentive to use metro. But then again, the cost of metro is high enough at this point for round trip during rush hour that I could just pay to drive downtown and park and the difference between costs is pretty small.

So if there was a parking garage at PY, you wouldn't use it anyway. That might be one hint why they won't build it. Note also, if you did use it, it would draw you to drive in to a dense area, which makes no sense. Plus putting a big parking garage right next to the station would both preclude putting offices/apts at that site, and also make it less pleasant for people from slightly further to walk there.

I think you can't read. The FP clearly says that it would be an incentive to use Metro. I highlighted the statement to help you out. Now the FP also indicates that cost would be a factor and I agree that it should be. We want to ENCOURAGE people to take metro, not discourage it. We should make parking as low cost as feasible to further that effort.

Of course, much of what you're saying, PP, is problematic. On the one hand you don't like a garage to handle current capacity because it would be "less pleasant" yet on the other hand you are, instead, suggesting that they build a new building drawing even more people into the area and which would be even "less pleasant." How does that even make sense? Well, I know to you it makes sense but the rest of us are logical and disagree.

Many of the people who go to a new office building will take transit, some will walk or bike. Everyone headed to a garage will drive. That is why generally metro garages are not put in dense areas, buildings are put there instead. FCDOT fought to keep metro garages away from the Tysons SL stations. The best place for metro garages is end of line stations, in less walkable areas. Like Huntington.

BTW, by express bus plus metro I can get from West Alexandria to L'Enfant plaza in about 40 minutes. Your ride in for the bus option is not warranted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the walk to the entrance from where the other entrance was supposed to be is truly NBD than why aren't they building the southern entrance and saying people will just have to walk down from the north?

I'm really asking, I'm not being snarky. Because right now it just seems like they're sticking it to the people that have already built in the south for the purposes of still enticing developers for the to be built area in the north.

I think they found that the southern mezzanine was more expensive to build than the northern one.

The south mezzanine costs about $10M more than the north because it had an extra ramp. In the grand scheme of the project it’s a small difference.

The real reason is that more of the tax revenue is associated with the north and they can’t affort to lose that one. The city believes (correctly, based on data) that commercial development only happen within about 1/4-1/3 mile of the station entrance, so deleting the north mezzanine means no development of the existing shopping center and no commercial tax revenue. Not doing the south also means this, but to a smaller extent and more impacting people who are already stuck versus hypothetical future residents and businesses who can still choose not to come because they haven’t built yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except to get to those metro stations, I would have to travel 30 minutes in the morning in the opposite direction of where I am going and use neighborhood road cut through just to make it to the station in 30 minutes from my location in Alexandria City. But the King St and Braddock Rd stations are only a 10 minute drive. With the bus, why should I spend 40 minutes on the bus just to spend another 30 on the metro?

Now if they put in parking at Potomac Yards, I would see more incentive to use metro. But then again, the cost of metro is high enough at this point for round trip during rush hour that I could just pay to drive downtown and park and the difference between costs is pretty small.

So if there was a parking garage at PY, you wouldn't use it anyway. That might be one hint why they won't build it. Note also, if you did use it, it would draw you to drive in to a dense area, which makes no sense. Plus putting a big parking garage right next to the station would both preclude putting offices/apts at that site, and also make it less pleasant for people from slightly further to walk there.

I think you can't read. The FP clearly says that it would be an incentive to use Metro. I highlighted the statement to help you out. Now the FP also indicates that cost would be a factor and I agree that it should be. We want to ENCOURAGE people to take metro, not discourage it. We should make parking as low cost as feasible to further that effort.

Of course, much of what you're saying, PP, is problematic. On the one hand you don't like a garage to handle current capacity because it would be "less pleasant" yet on the other hand you are, instead, suggesting that they build a new building drawing even more people into the area and which would be even "less pleasant." How does that even make sense? Well, I know to you it makes sense but the rest of us are logical and disagree.

Anonymous wrote:If the walk to the entrance from where the other entrance was supposed to be is truly NBD than why aren't they building the southern entrance and saying people will just have to walk down from the north?

I'm really asking, I'm not being snarky. Because right now it just seems like they're sticking it to the people that have already built in the south for the purposes of still enticing developers for the to be built area in the north.

Perfect point. And they are definitely sticking it to a bunch of people who are blind. Shame on them!!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We aren't an urban area. We are a suburb. That's how the City was set up with the exception of Old Town.

Aside from Old Town, Del Ray, although less dense, is urban in form. Carlisle was built as an urban area, and PY will be as well. Arlandria is semi-urban. Much of the West End, though not urban in layout, is very dense, and to be liveable at all needs to become more urban in form, and will.
That still leaves a bunch of suburban enclaves, which will remain suburban, but we can't run the whole city as a suburb.

BTW, I checked the traffic on google maps this AM, while riding the bus (you know, the one you can't ride). Green everywhere, except for for the highways leading to DC, and Quaker leading to the King intersection. Despite the density, traffic flows fine. Fact is we are a City with many people using transit, some walking and biking, and many or most drivers having uncongested routes.

DP Honest question: are you color blind?

I don't know when you do your mysterious checking of Google maps but I can tell you that this afternoon at 5:19 pm, traffic was completely backed up from West Street to beyond Commonwealth on Braddock Road heading East. And at 7:54 am traffic was backed up from Russell Road to past King/Quaker all the way up to Minnie Howard.

You are delusional if you think that "traffic flows fine".

Anonymous wrote:If the walk to the entrance from where the other entrance was supposed to be is truly NBD than why aren't they building the southern entrance and saying people will just have to walk down from the north?

I'm really asking, I'm not being snarky. Because right now it just seems like they're sticking it to the people that have already built in the south for the purposes of still enticing developers for the to be built area in the north.

I think they found that the southern mezzanine was more expensive to build than the northern one.