Looking at data for several years, I think it’s fair to say that UVA has outpaced William and Mary in popularity. Apples and oranges to some extent, yes. The applicant pools are basically the same, in terms of quality, but moms and dads probably feel better telling their kids to say yes to the bigger brand name. Better value, I think.

This. Absolutely it's true that UVA has become much more popular and is more of a brand name than W&M. Value will depend on what how you define an education -- what it's for. If you value a human scale and interaction with faculty mentors, if you think an education is above all a human enterprise best done face to face and not in huge lecture halls, then you may prefer W&M or another smaller school. Though to be fair, if you're in a smaller department at UVA you may get more faculty contact. If an education is just an exercise in branding then there's no question UVA has the better known more popular brand.

W&M has been moving forward of late. Lots of new facilities. They're well on their way to raising $! billion for the endowment. They've selected a fantastic new President and the outgoing one, Taylor Reveley, did a great deal for the school. They're trying to increase need based aid especially for OOS. In short they're addressing some of the issues have made W&M fall off the radar a bit.

I don't know if they're on the rise, and liberal arts are out of fashion, but the increase in SAT's this year (though apps were down slightly) looks like a good sign.

The difference may have to do with median vs. mean and the redesigned SAT. The scores are up quite a bit from last year.

Median for admitted was up 50 points at W&M and middle 50% SAT went from 1330-1490 to1360-1530 from 2017 to 2018.

UVA accepted mean SAT went from 1419 to 1431. Middle 50% SAT for admitted was 1330-1490 for 2017. I don't seen an aggregate for 2018, but Middle 50% for 2018 admitted is 1330-1490 (VA) 1420-1530 (OOS).

Of note though given the topic of this thread, the OOS yield rate for UVA A&S and engineering is only a little over 20%. I can't find W&M OOS yield, but I would think it would have to be low given overall yield is close to 30%. These schools are attracting a lot of OOS applicants, but the yield is low because the the OOS price is now near the level of an elite private school and the price differential is probably quite high compared to in-state alternatives. The exceptions would be for those states with high in state tuition (e.g. PA, NJ, Vermont).

New SAT scores are actually lower than old ones. College confidential has multiple threads on this. The increase this year may be in part due to kids having more time to prep the test. It was brand new last year.

https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1961046-old-sat-scores-compared-to-redesigned-sat-scores.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It says W&M is a safety school for VA kids with high scores.

How was Radford?

Not sure what that means (or what Radford is), but I assume it’s insulting.

My point was simple. If school A has higher admitted scores, lower matriculant scores and lower yield than school B, it means school A functions more as a safety school for high performers than school B. That doesn’t make school A a bad or a worse school than B. Presumably, it means school A appeals to high performers (many of whom have other options they prefer).

Looking at data for several years, I think it’s fair to say that UVA has outpaced William and Mary in popularity. Apples and oranges to some extent, yes. The applicant pools are basically the same, in terms of quality, but moms and dads probably feel better telling their kids to say yes to the bigger brand name. Better value, I think.

Not for OOS when you have options like Michigan, California, NC etc especially if you are interested in STEM

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It says W&M is a safety school for VA kids with high scores.

How was Radford?

Not sure what that means (or what Radford is), but I assume it’s insulting.

My point was simple. If school A has higher admitted scores, lower matriculant scores and lower yield than school B, it means school A functions more as a safety school for high performers than school B. That doesn’t make school A a bad or a worse school than B. Presumably, it means school A appeals to high performers (many of whom have other options they prefer).

Looking at data for several years, I think it’s fair to say that UVA has outpaced William and Mary in popularity. Apples and oranges to some extent, yes. The applicant pools are basically the same, in terms of quality, but moms and dads probably feel better telling their kids to say yes to the bigger brand name. Better value, I think.

Anonymous wrote:DC resident. Would not consider paying OOS tuition for any VA school other than UVA or W&M (not sure I’d pay it for them, but can see why someone might). Can’t evaluate VT because I have no familiarity with engineering schools so all I think of when I think of VT is people being killed.

You might want to try moving on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mary Washington
Virginia Tech
VCU for the right major
JMU

Worth OOS tuition? Really?

Plenty of people think so. Lots of OOS kids at all of these schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It says W&M is a safety school for VA kids with high scores.

How was Radford?

Not sure what that means (or what Radford is), but I assume it’s insulting.

My point was simple. If school A has higher admitted scores, lower matriculant scores and lower yield than school B, it means school A functions more as a safety school for high performers than school B. That doesn’t make school A a bad or a worse school than B. Presumably, it means school A appeals to high performers (many of whom have other options they prefer).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are tons of OOS kids at all of the VA public schools. So I guess plenty of people are happy to pay OOS tuition to go there!

Lots of New Yorkers go to WM.

Jon Stewart of Daily Show went there.

He was from NJ.

Off topic, but Jon Stewart's introduction of Bruce Springsteen at the Kennedy Center Honors was an all-time classic.

UVA and W&M used to be a pretty good deal from OOS. I don't think they are any more with the steep rise in OOS tuition. The OOS students that enroll are more likely now to be kids that aren't accepted to Duke and other highly selective privates and families can afford to pay close to full freight.

Anonymous wrote:William and Mary's median SAT for accepted students this year was 1460 vs. a mean of 1431 at UVA. Just saying.

The difference may have to do with median vs. mean and the redesigned SAT. The scores are up quite a bit from last year.

Median for admitted was up 50 points at W&M and middle 50% SAT went from 1330-1490 to1360-1530 from 2017 to 2018.

UVA accepted mean SAT went from 1419 to 1431. Middle 50% SAT for admitted was 1330-1490 for 2017. I don't seen an aggregate for 2018, but Middle 50% for 2018 admitted is 1330-1490 (VA) 1420-1530 (OOS).

Of note though given the topic of this thread, the OOS yield rate for UVA A&S and engineering is only a little over 20%. I can't find W&M OOS yield, but I would think it would have to be low given overall yield is close to 30%. These schools are attracting a lot of OOS applicants, but the yield is low because the the OOS price is now near the level of an elite private school and the price differential is probably quite high compared to in-state alternatives. The exceptions would be for those states with high in state tuition (e.g. PA, NJ, Vermont).

Anonymous wrote:It says W&M is a safety school for VA kids with high scores.

How was Radford?

UVA and William and Mary seek diversity from all wealthy regions of New Jersey and Long Island. Didn’t get into Duke? Try either of those places.

Anonymous wrote:It says W&M is a safety school for VA kids with high scores.

I thought that was George Mason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are tons of OOS kids at all of the VA public schools. So I guess plenty of people are happy to pay OOS tuition to go there!

Lots of New Yorkers go to WM.

Jon Stewart of Daily Show went there.

He was from NJ.

It says W&M is a safety school for VA kids with high scores.