Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old is she? Is this a topic that she's introduced in any way?

Yeah, more context. 12 and complaining that she is not pretty. And the automatic "of course you are" is maybe all that is needed. I had directed the conversation to all her strengths and talents in a way that I think was smooth. And asked why it is coming up (to make sure it is not a result of some experience or conversation), she responds it is just from looking at recent pics of herself. But I am just thinking philosophically, why do we have to be beautiful? And is there some other way of building her up?

This has probably been said by now but this approach has the danger of running roughshod over her feelings and encouraging her to be quiet without resolving anything. I'd listen to her first, as in reflective listening like "Sounds like you feel pretty bad about this." Then let her talk for a bit so she knows that it's okay to tell her mom she feels crappy about this and that mom doesn't have to be protected from the kid's crappy feelings. Then you maybe you can talk about the way you've handled it and help her see a different perspective. But let her talk through the feelings with you first.

BTW I say this as someone who wasn't particularly beautiful when they were young but who is having a fabulous time now. There are all these posts on DCUM from people who feel invisible as they grow older because they're used to looking young and beautiful. I don't suffer from that at all because I never had it. I wish I could bottle this and give it to every insecure teenager - or go back in time and give it to myself!

But here's the thing. Acknowledge her feelings first. Make sure she doesn't feel like she has to make mom feel better.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand how any of you guys can think your kids are not beautiful. I look at my kids and I know they are absolutely gorgeous. They bring a smile to my face every day; how could I find that not beautiful? I'm sure it's not objective (it's not supposed to be), but I thought everyone felt this way about their kids.

+100
Who are these people who think they’re somehow doing their kids a favor by implying or actually stating that they’re not attractive? I can’t imagine growing up knowing that my own parents didn’t think I was beautiful. This is a very sad thread.

+200

So when you look around at a crowd, all you see are beautiful people? No one looks average? And average people cannot admit that they look average and be proud of it, because it is heresy to our cultural idolatry of beauty?

NP. When I look around at a crowd and my child is in the crowd, I pick her out and my heart says she is the most gorgeous one there. My head knows this can’t be true objectively but who cares?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will [b]always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

[/b]
Do you tell her she is a math genius even when she's getting a C?

Just so you know, saying it doesn't make it so!

Of course not. Are you people really this literal? Did your parents tell you you were ugly as a child? If so, you have my sympathies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

Do you tell her she is a math genius even when she's getting a C?

DP here. You can’t possibly be equating the two. If a child isn’t good at math, you still reassure him or her that they’re smart (maybe you don’t, but I certainly do), while at the same time helping them with math and/or getting a tutor. If a child isn’t pretty, you don’t tell them that unless you’re truly a cruel person. You tell them they’re beautiful and help them look as good as they can. That this has to even be explained to you is incredibly sad.

So you are basically the person who sends your kid who can't sing into an American Idol audition believing they have the voice of an angel. Who is the cruel one now?

Wow, that's quite a leap. No, I would never do something like that. At some point, as kids are growing up, they realize their limitations. They certainly don't have to be told. If I had a child who couldn't sing, he or she would realize that pretty fast due to the reactions of onlookers or an audience. I wouldn't dissuade them from performing, if it was something that brought them joy. I'm reminded of the many talent shows I've sat through at my kids' schools, where kid after kid stands on stage in front of the whole student body and their families and belts out some horrendous rendition of a popular song. While I'm sure everyone is cringing, that child also gets a huge round of applause at the end. I could never have been that brave, but I admire the kids who are.

My daughter used to take dance classes. She was a horrible dancer. I never had to tell her that; she could look around her and see how much better the other girls were. She came to her own conclusion that maybe dancing wasn't for her, and I said that was fine. She now does something else that she's really good at. Kids aren't stupid - they can figure it out on their own without being told they suck. Or that they're ugly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will [b]always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

[/b]
Do you tell her she is a math genius even when she's getting a C?

Just so you know, saying it doesn't make it so!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

Do you tell her she is a math genius even when she's getting a C?

DP here. You can’t possibly be equating the two. If a child isn’t good at math, you still reassure him or her that they’re smart (maybe you don’t, but I certainly do), while at the same time helping them with math and/or getting a tutor. If a child isn’t pretty, you don’t tell them that unless you’re truly a cruel person. You tell them they’re beautiful and help them look as good as they can. That this has to even be explained to you is incredibly sad.

So you are basically the person who sends your kid who can't sing into an American Idol audition believing they have the voice of an angel. Who is the cruel one now?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

Do you tell her she is a math genius even when she's getting a C?

DP here. You can’t possibly be equating the two. If a child isn’t good at math, you still reassure him or her that they’re smart (maybe you don’t, but I certainly do), while at the same time helping them with math and/or getting a tutor. If a child isn’t pretty, you don’t tell them that unless you’re truly a cruel person. You tell them they’re beautiful and help them look as good as they can. That this has to even be explained to you is incredibly sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

Do you tell her she is a math genius even when she's getting a C?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

Which is why I will always tell my daughter she is pretty (and smart, etc). Screw "today's culture."

Anonymous wrote:So I am average looking and I have a great life and have what I want and need in the world and I have average looking children, is it wrong to have a pep-talk that it is OK not to be beautiful? That DCs can have love, career, and joy without beauty? Along the lines of articles such as these:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-biberdorf/not-everyone-is-beautiful_b_5554940.html

https://www.xojane.com/issues/you-are-not-beautiful

Is this a serious question? In today's culture, encouraging one's daughter to be pretty is tantamount to psychological abuse.

I tell my kids they are beautiful. But that I would hate it if they thought that their appearance was the most important thing about them. And that when I look at them, I see pretty. But more importantly, I see smart, determined, kind, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:....anyone can find the right clothes, hair, makeup, poise, etc. but even for beautiful celebrities that stuff can take an awful lot of time. I hope you invest the short time you have to live your life in things that really bring you joy.

I'm a man, and I have sons, so I can't give you specific advice based on experience, but I think the above is really smart.

This is based on the fact that for most of my life, I've been told that I was handsome. I don't have a lot of self confidence, so I never really believed it. I realize now, though, that I was tall and fit, and for my work I had to dress pretty nicely, and that's probably what they meant. For a couple of years I went through a period of being out of shape and caring less about my clothes, and I recently realized that I had become kind of invisible to most people. Now I'm spending a lot of time in the gym and paying more attention to my clothes and hair, and I really notice that people are much friendlier.

So I think anyone can put in the time and effort to learn how to be attractive, and I think many people that the media presents as super attractive would be unrecognizable without the clothes and makeup. I would not tell your daughter that she's not pretty, but rather that it's a question of how much time she wants to invest in her appearance, and is that a priority for her? I might talk with her about how she wants to invest her time in order to be happy and healthy, and likely spending tons of time on fashion and makeup are not good investments if she's not really into them. However, being fit, active and confident are good for physical and mental health (so intrinsically rewarding), and they have a side benefit of being things that people find attractive.

Also, some parents seem much better than others at helping their kids find becoming clothes, hairstyles, glasses, etc. I have a sister who was really unattractive as young teen because my mom basically dressed her like the church lady from SNL. When she got old enough to pick her own clothes and hairstyle, suddenly she was much better looking. If this is not a strong suit for you, OP (it's certainly not for me), maybe you could get some advice from a kind friend who is more into this stuff. Not that your daughter would ever know, but you could just suggest more becoming stuff next time you shop.

NP here. There’s a lot of great points in this post. Thanks for sharing your perspective! Interesting to hear men also get the „invisible“ treatment when they slip on the atteactiveness scale.

Have you heard the Ani Difranco song, I am not a pretty girl?

I intend to play it for my daughter when she’s older.

Anonymous wrote:Jesus, the reason everyone says you MUST say your kids are beautiful is because we are conflating beauty with worth. Everyone is worthy, but not everyone is beautiful. Unattractive people know that they are. You aren't fooling them and you aren't helping them you are only further supporting the idea that for a woman being beautiful is the most important thing.

So I guess when your daughter gets ready for a school dance, and comes down nervously to have her picture taken, you'll barely look at her and simply say, "It's ok honey. You may not be pretty, but wow was that a great report card!"

Newsflash: all kids, from the homeliest to the most beautiful, want to be told they are pretty/beautiful/gorgeous/handsome. Of course it's not the most important thing, but to a kid, it certainly can be. Why on earth wouldn't you tell them that?

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/jun/25/four-reasons-not-to-tell-your-daughter-shes-pretty
"You’re so pretty!” All parents of daughters make such throwaway comments at some point. It seems innocent enough but statements like this can have a devastating effect on a girl in the long run. But why?
It may seem obvious, but is easily forgotten, that teaching girls that appearance is the first thing we notice about them gives them the powerful message that looks are their most important quality. We don’t feel the need to tell our sons how handsome they are or how much we like their clothes, yet the unconscious biases we carry around means that we say things to daughters that we wouldn’t dream of saying to sons."

Versus
http://time.com/collection-post/4105611/parenting-compliments/
In this heyday of helicopter parenting, the way parents compliment their kids is under attack. We’re not supposed to praise their intelligence: “When we praise kids for being smart, those kids think: Oh good, I’m smart,“ writes James Hamblin at the Atlantic. “And then later, when those kids mess up, which they will, they think: Oh no, I’m not smart after all.” Nor are we supposed to acknowledge their looks: “Knowing what we do now about young girls and self-esteem — that body image issues start as early as preschool, that girls who feel good about themselves are more likely to wait longer to experiment with sex and alcohol — compliments become more problematic,” writes Sarah Powers at the Washington Post.

Can’t we say anything anymore?
Millennial parents (I am one) sometimes fancy themselves mad scientists engineering Franken-babies: Never call them smart so they’ll be deeply analytic problem-solvers; never call them beautiful so the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show won’t one day make them feel terrible about themselves. While you’re at it, fill them exclusively with breast milk so they’ll crush the SATs; feed them organic veggies only so they’ll never, ever contract coxsackie from the playground.

Overthinking, overparenting, overdoing it has become the new normal, with little gray area. No cupcakes—they’re unhealthy and potentially deadly for those with allergies. (In the 80’s, allergies were announced and accommodated, and somehow cupcakes persisted). No Barbies—they’re bad for body image. No pink—it encourages gender stereotypes. And no Disney princesses, God no—they’re obviously anti-feminist.

....
Being called beautiful is one of many compliments that seems to register as love to her. To suggest to toddlers and children that it’s loaded with potentially damaging societal subtext, could tarnish their budding body image and potentially lead to eating disorders in adolescence (especially if it’s doled out in moderation) feels like projection to me."