Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH, the kids (3 and 5) and I were walking to a nearby restaurant for lunch this weekend when we got into a fight. It was a dumb recurrent fight and we both got very frustrated with each other very fast. I was expecting that we would snap at each other for a few minutes and then calm down, in large part b/c the kids were there and because everything had been fine otherwise. I think it's important to show kids that couples can have disagreements/fight but remain civil to each other and get past it.

But my DH said he felt like it would be better for him to go home or else he would say something that he would regret. So he just walked away. I was totally shocked and for about 20 minutes I was looking up the street expecting he would come back. I went ahead and had lunch with the kids at the restaurant we had been planning to go to, feeling totally bowled over but trying to act normal.

When we got home he put the kids down for a nap. Then we had a huge fight while they were sleeping in which I told him that his walking away had made me see him differently--as someone who would, literally, walk away from our family if he was mad at me. I felt it showed he was willing to put his anger at me above the kids.

He said he felt he had made the right decision by leaving because he thought "it was going in a bad direction" and we would have ended up having a serious fight in front of the kids, and that I was being melodramatic in my reaction.

We worked through the original fight (didn't resolve it but agreed to both try to work on the issues). But I am still feeling very unsettled by the walking away part. I believe him that he thought he was making the mature decision, but I think that is completely wrong and not how you should conduct yourself if you are a member of a family. I felt he was basically blaming me for his decision, too, by talking about the fight in the passive voice and acting like would have had no choice but to say something terrible to me if he had stayed, as opposed to regulating his own behavior.

So what do you think, DCUM? Was I overreacting or was this a really big deal? (Ducking.)

Men process things differently and walking away to reevaluate the situation is what most men do. Read about it. Men are solvers and like to solve problems and come to conclusions. You're overreacting and it's obvious you don't understand male behavior. Walking away to come up with a different strategy and to approach the issue a different way is what men do.

Get over yourself

OP here. This is the kind of idiocy that makes DCUM less useful than it would otherwise be. I have gotten some helpful feedback on this thread. Most of it was not complimentary to me, but I can deal with that. But the background chorus of sexism and vitriol makes it harder to sort out whether the rest of the comments are making good points or are just reflexively blaming women for everything.

I'm a woman and think your response here is annoying. Some random mra crap has made an appearance but not the comment you're responding to. Makes me wonder what else you think is sexist.

Do your kids a favor and don't interpret the "don't fight in front of your kids advice as sexist. Another person here who's parents fighting in front of them caused anxiety and pain. I am pretty good at conflict management but I'd say that I learned it the hard way. No fight that caused bad enough feelings for constant sniping and one person having to walk away is appropriate.

Op here, confused. The post I called sexist didn't say anything about not fighting in front of the kids. There have been several posts saying that and they have made me think about my views about that and read a couple of articles about it. It seems like there is a consensus that bad fights should not be held in front of kids, but it is important for kids to see their parents have disagreements and become frustrated at each other and then deal with that in a constructive way. That way they know that it's OK to have negative emotions but have good models for how to handle them. I agree we obviously need to work on our "fighting style," which is why we have made an appointment for couples therapy. (Well, I made the appointment, which goes to my underlying issue about our division of labor, but that would be a topic for a different post.)

I do think it's sexist to say "men do X, you obviously don't understand male behavior, get over yourself." People in a relationship should deal with each other as individuals, not archetypes of their gender. I'm sure it's true that some men and some women tend to need to walk away to calm down in an argument. But my DH has not generally been like that in the 10+ years we've been together.

You said there was a background chorus of vitriol and sexism leading me to think that this immediate pp wasn't the only advice you thought was sexist. I said that I hoped the 'stop fighting in front of the kids' advice wasn't being interpreted as sexist or full of vitriol.

My parents hate each other and I feel powerful anxiety whenever I know they're even speaking to each other. Hallmarks from my childhood before they divorced include escalating sniping arguments in public, worse fights that we could hear at home and yes, one of them occasionally storming off.

Take this for whatever it's worth, but your tone sets off my childhood anxiety. That dig you took at the end of your post, the way you not once in this thread mentioned something nice about him, the way you did not at all mention how your five year old reacted to this (they noticed for sure), the fact that you put fighting style in quotes kind of implying you think it's dumb to talk like that and more than anything the fact that you have a regular habit of unresolved sniping all says that you guys are starting to care more about being right and being the good one than solving the problem.

I think you are using one thing, that it is good to show your children good conflict management by example, and conflating it with fighting in front of your kids in order to not have to examine your contribution very closely.

I'm happy you're going to therapy. I'd recommend going into it thinking that your marriage is on the line, because contempt is the number one killer of marriages and you sound like you're drifting that. Multiple posters with histories similar to mine seem to be hearing the same thing, so maybe take that into consideration.

As for the sexism of men needing to walk it off more I would say sure it's a stereotype but hardly one the results in endemic sexism and one that has some resemblance to real life because it is a common (though not universal) difference between men and women. To respond to that saying there is a chorus of sexism and vitriol is extreme.

And to all the posters aghast that were assuming OP was at fault you are being silly. It takes two to tango when you fight and OP openly admitted she was participating in the sniping. We aren't advising her dh were advising her. If her dh was here I'd be saying similar things to him.

Anonymous wrote:
Am I crazy in assuming this was a neighborhood restaurant since you were walking? I also assume it was a nice day and the neighborhood was safe. Some of these abandonment comments make it sound like they were stranded in a strange town or a ghetto with no coats and it was snowing. Im guessing everyone could have just turned around and went home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:let me translate OPs post....

"She thought they would snap at teach other and then be civil" means she thought that she should instigate an argument in public wit the kids and he would be trapped into the situation because they were in public. He chose to leave a situation which was manipulative. Good for him.

What the F? Why is everyone blaming OP for instigating and intending to berate her DH w/ no consequences? The misogyny on here is unbelievable. It's just as likely her DH over-reacted or was an ass. As he acted like an ass by leaving, I'm inclined toward that conclusion.

Are you obtuse? She knows a certain subject pushes his buttons. He plans a nice family outing and they are on their way. She decides it time to do that cool thing my parents did and argue in front of the kids. How to start it? Hmmm. I know, I'll bring up that topic that always triggers him. Oops. Didn't think that thru, we never resolve that one, do we.

Everyone blaming the OP is due to the fact that it's her fault. Misogyny is not in play. He was trying to have a nice day with his family and she picks then to raise this, knowing the result? If I was him, I'd be pissed at her for sabotaging the whole thing. I think counseling is needed but not the couples variety. Just some good old fashion psychoanalysis. While she's at it pp, why not ask her for a recommendation. Seems like your head could use some shrinking too.

I'm the pp with the divorced parents that just laid a lot of blame at ops feet. You are projecting and being a little crazy. We have no evidence that the dh is an angel and when regular snappy fighting like this occurs neither party is innocent

You also made a lot of crazy assumption like he planned the outing and he didn't start it and she did it intentionally.

My guess is that you think your mom is worse than your dad. But posts like yours will make OP take people like us (kids damaged by parental bitterness and anger) less seriously.

So you scold me for making "crazy assumptions" and then you go and make some crazy assumptions about my parents?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:let me translate OPs post....

"She thought they would snap at teach other and then be civil" means she thought that she should instigate an argument in public wit the kids and he would be trapped into the situation because they were in public. He chose to leave a situation which was manipulative. Good for him.

What the F? Why is everyone blaming OP for instigating and intending to berate her DH w/ no consequences? The misogyny on here is unbelievable. It's just as likely her DH over-reacted or was an ass. As he acted like an ass by leaving, I'm inclined toward that conclusion.

Are you obtuse? She knows a certain subject pushes his buttons. He plans a nice family outing and they are on their way. She decides it time to do that cool thing my parents did and argue in front of the kids. How to start it? Hmmm. I know, I'll bring up that topic that always triggers him. Oops. Didn't think that thru, we never resolve that one, do we.

Everyone blaming the OP is due to the fact that it's her fault. Misogyny is not in play. He was trying to have a nice day with his family and she picks then to raise this, knowing the result? If I was him, I'd be pissed at her for sabotaging the whole thing. I think counseling is needed but not the couples variety. Just some good old fashion psychoanalysis. While she's at it pp, why not ask her for a recommendation. Seems like your head could use some shrinking too.

I'm the pp with the divorced parents that just laid a lot of blame at ops feet. You are projecting and being a little crazy. We have no evidence that the dh is an angel and when regular snappy fighting like this occurs neither party is innocent

You also made a lot of crazy assumption like he planned the outing and he didn't start it and she did it intentionally.

My guess is that you think your mom is worse than your dad. But posts like yours will make OP take people like us (kids damaged by parental bitterness and anger) less seriously.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only on DCUM will someone criticize a man for being level headed and walking away during a fight that the OP was trying to escalate. Most of understand why he walked away and I applaud him for it.

If he stayed and snapped and called OP a choice name or two, some of you same folks would be coming after him for that.

OP wanted to fight and she wanted to fight on her own terms. But I would NEVER fault anyone from removing themselves from a situation where they are about to lose control. People can phrase it as unfair to the OP or whatever. The man went back home because he did not want to snap at each other the whole "family outing." And if this family date was so important to the OP, why would she potentially ruin it by insisting they fight right then and there. Mature people table things when no resolution is imminent.

What about him leaving her with their two kids? Isn't that sexist? He walked away, not just from her, but from the kids' at that point. That part is too much. Whom ever started the fight in the restaurant should not have done so. Was it you OP who started the fight? That was wrong of you. You don't start fights in public places, right in front of your kids and strangers. And your DH was wrong to leave, he should have asked you to drop it. If he did ask you and you still pursued the arguments, he should he left with the kids. Him leaving without the kids, and leaving you with the kids is wrong. If he did tell you that he will leave if you persist and you still persisted... well, both sides were wrong. But, OP, who started the fight? You or him?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only on DCUM will someone criticize a man for being level headed and walking away during a fight that the OP was trying to escalate. Most of understand why he walked away and I applaud him for it.

If he stayed and snapped and called OP a choice name or two, some of you same folks would be coming after him for that.

OP wanted to fight and she wanted to fight on her own terms. But I would NEVER fault anyone from removing themselves from a situation where they are about to lose control. People can phrase it as unfair to the OP or whatever. The man went back home because he did not want to snap at each other the whole "family outing." And if this family date was so important to the OP, why would she potentially ruin it by insisting they fight right then and there. Mature people table things when no resolution is imminent.

What about him leaving her with their two kids? Isn't that sexist? He walked away, not just from her, but from the kids' at that point. That part is too much. Whom ever started the fight in the restaurant should not have done so. Was it you OP who started the fight? That was wrong of you. You don't start fights in public places, right in front of your kids and strangers. And your DH was wrong to leave, he should have asked you to drop it. If he did ask you and you still pursued the arguments, he should he left with the kids. Him leaving without the kids, and leaving you with the kids is wrong. If he did tell you that he will leave if you persist and you still persisted... well, both sides were wrong. But, OP, who started the fight? You or him?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only on DCUM will someone criticize a man for being level headed and walking away during a fight that the OP was trying to escalate. Most of understand why he walked away and I applaud him for it.

If he stayed and snapped and called OP a choice name or two, some of you same folks would be coming after him for that.

OP wanted to fight and she wanted to fight on her own terms. But I would NEVER fault anyone from removing themselves from a situation where they are about to lose control. People can phrase it as unfair to the OP or whatever. The man went back home because he did not want to snap at each other the whole "family outing." And if this family date was so important to the OP, why would she potentially ruin it by insisting they fight right then and there. Mature people table things when no resolution is imminent.

What about him leaving her with their two kids? Isn't that sexist? He walked away, not just from her, but from the kids' at that point. That part is too much. Whom ever started the fight in the restaurant should not have done so. Was it you OP who started the fight? That was wrong of you. You don't start fights in public places, right in front of your kids and strangers. And your DH was wrong to leave, he should have asked you to drop it. If he did ask you and you still pursued the arguments, he should he left with the kids. Him leaving without the kids, and leaving you with the kids is wrong. If he did tell you that he will leave if you persist and you still persisted... well, both sides were wrong. But, OP, who started the fight? You or him?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He was right and you are wrong.

Straight up misogyny right here. And probably a woman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:let me translate OPs post....

"She thought they would snap at teach other and then be civil" means she thought that she should instigate an argument in public wit the kids and he would be trapped into the situation because they were in public. He chose to leave a situation which was manipulative. Good for him.

What the F? Why is everyone blaming OP for instigating and intending to berate her DH w/ no consequences? The misogyny on here is unbelievable. It's just as likely her DH over-reacted or was an ass. As he acted like an ass by leaving, I'm inclined toward that conclusion.

Are you obtuse? She knows a certain subject pushes his buttons. He plans a nice family outing and they are on their way. She decides it time to do that cool thing my parents did and argue in front of the kids. How to start it? Hmmm. I know, I'll bring up that topic that always triggers him. Oops. Didn't think that thru, we never resolve that one, do we.

Everyone blaming the OP is due to the fact that it's her fault. Misogyny is not in play. He was trying to have a nice day with his family and she picks then to raise this, knowing the result? If I was him, I'd be pissed at her for sabotaging the whole thing. I think counseling is needed but not the couples variety. Just some good old fashion psychoanalysis. While she's at it pp, why not ask her for a recommendation. Seems like your head could use some shrinking too.

Anonymous wrote:Only on DCUM will someone criticize a man for being level headed and walking away during a fight that the OP was trying to escalate. Most of understand why he walked away and I applaud him for it.

If he stayed and snapped and called OP a choice name or two, some of you same folks would be coming after him for that.

OP wanted to fight and she wanted to fight on her own terms. But I would NEVER fault anyone from removing themselves from a situation where they are about to lose control. People can phrase it as unfair to the OP or whatever. The man went back home because he did not want to snap at each other the whole "family outing." And if this family date was so important to the OP, why would she potentially ruin it by insisting they fight right then and there. Mature people table things when no resolution is imminent.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:let me translate OPs post....

"She thought they would snap at teach other and then be civil" means she thought that she should instigate an argument in public wit the kids and he would be trapped into the situation because they were in public. He chose to leave a situation which was manipulative. Good for him.

What the F? Why is everyone blaming OP for instigating and intending to berate her DH w/ no consequences? The misogyny on here is unbelievable. It's just as likely her DH over-reacted or was an ass. As he acted like an ass by leaving, I'm inclined toward that conclusion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think he was right. Sometimes you need to disengage in order to not have things continue to escalate. Since the fight continued once you got home, it seems your husband made the right choice to not have the fight continue in public.

+1. He didn't storm off and give you the silent treatment. He explained he needed time to calm down. That's a legit response.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH, the kids (3 and 5) and I were walking to a nearby restaurant for lunch this weekend when we got into a fight. It was a dumb recurrent fight and we both got very frustrated with each other very fast. I was expecting that we would snap at each other for a few minutes and then calm down, in large part b/c the kids were there and because everything had been fine otherwise. I think it's important to show kids that couples can have disagreements/fight but remain civil to each other and get past it.

But my DH said he felt like it would be better for him to go home or else he would say something that he would regret. So he just walked away. I was totally shocked and for about 20 minutes I was looking up the street expecting he would come back. I went ahead and had lunch with the kids at the restaurant we had been planning to go to, feeling totally bowled over but trying to act normal.

When we got home he put the kids down for a nap. Then we had a huge fight while they were sleeping in which I told him that his walking away had made me see him differently--as someone who would, literally, walk away from our family if he was mad at me. I felt it showed he was willing to put his anger at me above the kids.

He said he felt he had made the right decision by leaving because he thought "it was going in a bad direction" and we would have ended up having a serious fight in front of the kids, and that I was being melodramatic in my reaction.

We worked through the original fight (didn't resolve it but agreed to both try to work on the issues). But I am still feeling very unsettled by the walking away part. I believe him that he thought he was making the mature decision, but I think that is completely wrong and not how you should conduct yourself if you are a member of a family. I felt he was basically blaming me for his decision, too, by talking about the fight in the passive voice and acting like would have had no choice but to say something terrible to me if he had stayed, as opposed to regulating his own behavior.

So what do you think, DCUM? Was I overreacting or was this a really big deal? (Ducking.)

Men process things differently and walking away to reevaluate the situation is what most men do. Read about it. Men are solvers and like to solve problems and come to conclusions. You're overreacting and it's obvious you don't understand male behavior. Walking away to come up with a different strategy and to approach the issue a different way is what men do.

Get over yourself

OP here. This is the kind of idiocy that makes DCUM less useful than it would otherwise be. I have gotten some helpful feedback on this thread. Most of it was not complimentary to me, but I can deal with that. But the background chorus of sexism and vitriol makes it harder to sort out whether the rest of the comments are making good points or are just reflexively blaming women for everything.

I'm a woman and think your response here is annoying. Some random mra crap has made an appearance but not the comment you're responding to. Makes me wonder what else you think is sexist.

Do your kids a favor and don't interpret the "don't fight in front of your kids advice as sexist. Another person here who's parents fighting in front of them caused anxiety and pain. I am pretty good at conflict management but I'd say that I learned it the hard way. No fight that caused bad enough feelings for constant sniping and one person having to walk away is appropriate.

Op here, confused. The post I called sexist didn't say anything about not fighting in front of the kids. There have been several posts saying that and they have made me think about my views about that and read a couple of articles about it. It seems like there is a consensus that bad fights should not be held in front of kids, but it is important for kids to see their parents have disagreements and become frustrated at each other and then deal with that in a constructive way. That way they know that it's OK to have negative emotions but have good models for how to handle them. I agree we obviously need to work on our "fighting style," which is why we have made an appointment for couples therapy. (Well, I made the appointment, which goes to my underlying issue about our division of labor, but that would be a topic for a different post.)

I do think it's sexist to say "men do X, you obviously don't understand male behavior, get over yourself." People in a relationship should deal with each other as individuals, not archetypes of their gender. I'm sure it's true that some men and some women tend to need to walk away to calm down in an argument. But my DH has not generally been like that in the 10+ years we've been together.

froggymom wrote:In the heat of the moment we are all apt to do or say something that is hurtful to others. I can't say it was right or wrong for him to walk away, but what is important is that you resolve the issue just as you did the cause of the original fight. When you are both calm is a good time to maybe revisit the issue and let him know how hurt you were and that you felt abandoned when he walked away. He may not say you are right which doesn't matter. He will get the message. God Bless both of you.

Anonymous wrote:Not going to read most of comments OP but i think you DH was wrong-that if he is committed to family and marriage-in the broad scheme of things he should have seen that the argument was something that needed to be gone back to when cooler heads - without kids - could prevail but the forward motion right then was the family time and the nurturing of that. To me - he was casting his lot with winning an argument not seeing it as a rough in the road. I can see sure that he might have needed to gather himself for a minute to calm down and refocus but he did not step up and own his part in the dynamic. Only you know if this was a one of event or if it is a last straw.