Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP. We were able to buy a nice little home in the Chicago suburbs for just over 150K. So less than 2x our HHI. We could probably swing it for me to work half time except, and its a BIG except, I would not get my full pension cause I wouldn't have enough credits. We save 20% of our income on top of our pension contributions, but it wouldn't be enough to live on in retirement without the pension (Illinois teachers don't contribute to or get social security, so the pension is a huge deal) The other thing is if you go half time, you have zero seniority. This means every year I'd get riffed and not know until possibly August if I have a job to come back to. I can't have that kind of uncertainty.

We keep our expenses as low as we can, only have one car, and don't really go on vacations. But we want to help our kids go to college and life is expensive here like it is most places.

It sounds like you've got options but don't want to use them. You could work less but want a.) to put in all the extra hours at work while b.) earning additional money while c.) having seniority stability. As so many have said through the ages, you can't have it all. Since you clearly see your additional work contributions as more important than the extra time you could spend with your kids, why not just own it instead of acting as if you're being forced to put in all the extra time you do at work?

This is the core issue in this and most threads on DCUM. I chose teaching over medical school because I didn't want to accumulate (at the time) 160k in debt for a career with high rates of burn out. As a result, I don't make medical school salaries, but I also aren't dependent on that salary for debt repayment. I let go of one life so I could have another.

Here OP wants the fulfillment of putting in lots of extra hours at work (as evidenced by her repeated ignoring of suggestions to drop all unnecessary work and her putting down teachers who put in more *and* fewer hours than she does), but OP also wants to have all of those extra hours back and more with her kids, and at the same time, OP wants to work PT but also wants FT money. We don't get to have everything in life.

If OP's biggest priorities were time with kids, she wouldn't be doing all the extra stuff, and on top of that, she and DH would trim expenses so a.) the full pension wasn't necessary and b.) she could drop down to PT. If OP's biggest priorities were making more money, she could either ditch teaching completely for a higher paying career or work full time each summer (summer school, etc). But you don't get to do lots of useless extra work and then complain about how little family time you have or talk about wanting PT hours while wanting the security of FT pay.

Based on what I'm hearing here, do they even teach contract law as part of the admin endorsement? Seems like there's a whole lot of contract breaching going on and it seems to be getting worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. I teach in IL. I have a low salary for someone with my experience and educational level. I should really be close to 90K at this point. Unfortunately, when one changes districts a few times over their career, they do not take all their "years" with them. So, while I have 25 years in, I am only paid as if I have 7 years in. Again, though, this is not really about the money. It is about the time. I love my students and love my work, it is just too much of it. And I have children of my own and a spouse who I love. I leave the house at 6 a.m. and don't arrive home until 5 or later each night. And I'm doing so much work at home and on the weekends. I brought up my pay because the people I know who are working the hours I work are all making at least double what I make. It is somewhat comforting to hear that many others making comparable pay to me also have to put in long hours. But in the long run, I'm still not there enough for my kids and I find this does not gel with my moral code around mothering. I'd give anything to be able to teach half time. We just can't afford it.

It looks like it's both about the money and the time. As a fellow teacher in IL, I'd suggest doing whatever possible to downsize your expenses. On teacher salaries, we managed to pay off our home in 4 years and SAHP too. A key was choosing a home that didn't cost more than 2x HHI.

That's good!

How much was the house and your salaries? In Northern VA you wouldn't be able to find a home that's only 2x your HHI. I have 25 years and my DW is only 2 steps behind me. That puts our HHI at ~180k. Even as far up as we are in the scale we wouldn't be able to find a home 2x our HHI.

Thank you. The house was 95k and our salaries were combined 47k at the time, due to one of us being in school, then shot up to 95k combined shortly after, so we threw more at the mortgage. The feasibility does depend on where you are, as you note. In Illinois, if you can stay out of Chicago, though, there are a lot of good houses available with a 100k budget. If OP really wants more time, chopping expenses (smaller / cheaper house, used cash cars, etc) could make PT possible. Alternatively, so could dropping all of the ECs she's involved in, but OP's mostly ruled that out in previous posts.

That is not realistic in our area. We got a fixer upper (most people would be horrified at the condition) and it was $370K. Basically everything needed/needs to be redone replaced. For 95K we could have easily paid it off quickly too given we had a downpayment of 75K.

We all get to choose where we live and which professions we choose, and usually the professions are chosen before the locations, and well before long term housing. If we'd chosen to live somewhere where 370k houses needed gutting after deciding to work as teachers, we'd be struggling too. So we didn't.

Like the OP, I"m in Illinois. If I'd started teaching in Highland Park, my salary would currently be 72-74k this year instead of 50k. Big money! But I'd also be paying much, much more for housing. So we don't live in Highland Park. We live somewhere in Illinois where our salaries cover a greater proportion of housing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. I teach in IL. I have a low salary for someone with my experience and educational level. I should really be close to 90K at this point. Unfortunately, when one changes districts a few times over their career, they do not take all their "years" with them. So, while I have 25 years in, I am only paid as if I have 7 years in. Again, though, this is not really about the money. It is about the time. I love my students and love my work, it is just too much of it. And I have children of my own and a spouse who I love. I leave the house at 6 a.m. and don't arrive home until 5 or later each night. And I'm doing so much work at home and on the weekends. I brought up my pay because the people I know who are working the hours I work are all making at least double what I make. It is somewhat comforting to hear that many others making comparable pay to me also have to put in long hours. But in the long run, I'm still not there enough for my kids and I find this does not gel with my moral code around mothering. I'd give anything to be able to teach half time. We just can't afford it.

It looks like it's both about the money and the time. As a fellow teacher in IL, I'd suggest doing whatever possible to downsize your expenses. On teacher salaries, we managed to pay off our home in 4 years and SAHP too. A key was choosing a home that didn't cost more than 2x HHI.

That's good!

How much was the house and your salaries? In Northern VA you wouldn't be able to find a home that's only 2x your HHI. I have 25 years and my DW is only 2 steps behind me. That puts our HHI at ~180k. Even as far up as we are in the scale we wouldn't be able to find a home 2x our HHI.

Thank you. The house was 95k and our salaries were combined 47k at the time, due to one of us being in school, then shot up to 95k combined shortly after, so we threw more at the mortgage. The feasibility does depend on where you are, as you note. In Illinois, if you can stay out of Chicago, though, there are a lot of good houses available with a 100k budget. If OP really wants more time, chopping expenses (smaller / cheaper house, used cash cars, etc) could make PT possible. Alternatively, so could dropping all of the ECs she's involved in, but OP's mostly ruled that out in previous posts.

That is not realistic in our area. We got a fixer upper (most people would be horrified at the condition) and it was $370K. Basically everything needed/needs to be redone replaced. For 95K we could have easily paid it off quickly too given we had a downpayment of 75K.

Where are you and what 's your HHI? If it's not realistic, you ultimately can either move somewhere where it *is* (and there are plenty of places in the US where it is) or accept that you'd rather live where you are. But you don't get to live in a HCOL while enjoying LCOL housing.

Anonymous wrote:I am technically "off" 16 weeks per year. I am actually off about 10 weeks per year. Most friends who are not teachers get 3-4 weeks off per year.

How long is your contract? I posted earlier that ours is 194 days, or 39 weeks of work.

I am technically "off" 16 weeks per year. I am actually off about 10 weeks per year. Most friends who are not teachers get 3-4 weeks off per year.

I didn't teach when my kids were young. I went back to work when the youngest entered kindergarten. No way was I going to be gone 10-12 hours with little ones at home. I do have teacher friends who have to work with young ones. They spend less time in the school physically and take a lot home. But generally, those teachers avoid all committees and extra commitments and they are typically not the best teachers in the school those years. Decent? Yes. Great? No.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:60 hours a week x 38 weeks = 2280 hours per year.

40 hours a week x 52 weeks = 2080 hours per year.

A full time year round employee who works 44 hours a week works the same amount as a teacher. Most professionals I know work this and then some. I get the exhaustion that comes from long days with other people's children, but the amount of complaining is really unwarranted.

I'm pretty sure most (if not all) teachers work more a bit than 38 weeks a year, though. Teachers typically have about a week's worth of required work days for training, planning, classroom set-up, etc before the students' first day of school & at least a couple of work days for classroom cleanup,more meetings, etc after the students' last day of school. And a lot of the random days off/long weekends scattered through-out the school year are "in service" days for teachers. So, while they do get a lot more time off than most people, it is not quite as much time off as one might think.

Counting all those days it's 39 weeks for me (194 divided by 5).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To the teacher getting her middle school endorsement. No way will you EVER be able to put in 40 hour work weeks. Maybe 50 on a good week and especially if you have a 4 day week due to a holiday. The first few years will be the hardest and you can plan on 70-80 hour weeks then. Make sure you get at least 5 years in before having kids.

So what about all the teacher moms? Are they all really pulling 60 hour weeks while raising kids?

I'm a teacher mom and I'm writing a few days worth of lesson plans on a Saturday night which is typical for me. Sunday nights already feel melancholy so I try not to leave it for then. I rarely take work home during the week because it doesn't get done. After the kids are in bed, I am completely exhausted. I get to school around 7:20 and leave around 5:00/5:20. I'd say I work a 55 hr week while I actually get paid for 35 of them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:60 hours a week x 38 weeks = 2280 hours per year.

40 hours a week x 52 weeks = 2080 hours per year.

A full time year round employee who works 44 hours a week works the same amount as a teacher. Most professionals I know work this and then some. I get the exhaustion that comes from long days with other people's children, but the amount of complaining is really unwarranted.

I'm pretty sure lost (if not all) teachers work more a bit than 38 weeks a year, though. Teachers typically have about a week's worth of required work days for training, planning, classroom set-up, etc before the students' first day of school & at least a couple of work days for classroom cleanup,more meetings, etc after the students' last day of school. And a lot of the random days off/long weekends scattered through-out the school year are "in service" days for teachers. So, while they do get a lot more time off than most people, it is not quite as much time off as one might think.

^Plus, as another PP already pointed out, very few educated professionals with well over a decade of experience work 52 weeks a year .

Anonymous wrote:60 hours a week x 38 weeks = 2280 hours per year.

40 hours a week x 52 weeks = 2080 hours per year.

A full time year round employee who works 44 hours a week works the same amount as a teacher. Most professionals I know work this and then some. I get the exhaustion that comes from long days with other people's children, but the amount of complaining is really unwarranted.

I'm pretty sure most (if not all) teachers work more a bit than 38 weeks a year, though. Teachers typically have about a week's worth of required work days for training, planning, classroom set-up, etc before the students' first day of school & at least a couple of work days for classroom cleanup,more meetings, etc after the students' last day of school. And a lot of the random days off/long weekends scattered through-out the school year are "in service" days for teachers. So, while they do get a lot more time off than most people, it is not quite as much time off as one might think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP. I teach in IL. I have a low salary for someone with my experience and educational level. I should really be close to 90K at this point. Unfortunately, when one changes districts a few times over their career, they do not take all their "years" with them. So, while I have 25 years in, I am only paid as if I have 7 years in. Again, though, this is not really about the money. It is about the time. I love my students and love my work, it is just too much of it. And I have children of my own and a spouse who I love. I leave the house at 6 a.m. and don't arrive home until 5 or later each night. And I'm doing so much work at home and on the weekends. I brought up my pay because the people I know who are working the hours I work are all making at least double what I make. It is somewhat comforting to hear that many others making comparable pay to me also have to put in long hours. But in the long run, I'm still not there enough for my kids and I find this does not gel with my moral code around mothering. I'd give anything to be able to teach half time. We just can't afford it.

It looks like it's both about the money and the time. As a fellow teacher in IL, I'd suggest doing whatever possible to downsize your expenses. On teacher salaries, we managed to pay off our home in 4 years and SAHP too. A key was choosing a home that didn't cost more than 2x HHI.

That's good!

How much was the house and your salaries? In Northern VA you wouldn't be able to find a home that's only 2x your HHI. I have 25 years and my DW is only 2 steps behind me. That puts our HHI at ~180k. Even as far up as we are in the scale we wouldn't be able to find a home 2x our HHI.

Thank you. The house was 95k and our salaries were combined 47k at the time, due to one of us being in school, then shot up to 95k combined shortly after, so we threw more at the mortgage. The feasibility does depend on where you are, as you note. In Illinois, if you can stay out of Chicago, though, there are a lot of good houses available with a 100k budget. If OP really wants more time, chopping expenses (smaller / cheaper house, used cash cars, etc) could make PT possible. Alternatively, so could dropping all of the ECs she's involved in, but OP's mostly ruled that out in previous posts.

That is not realistic in our area. We got a fixer upper (most people would be horrified at the condition) and it was $370K. Basically everything needed/needs to be redone replaced. For 95K we could have easily paid it off quickly too given we had a downpayment of 75K.

Anonymous wrote:
Do you all have MDs or PhDs?
My husband and I work as research scientists and some of our colleagues work 60-80+ hours in their lab.
Salaries range from 40K as post-docs to 100K for senior scientists, sometimes a little more for specialties.
Considering the years needed to get their diplomas, the rigors of their study and profession, I think they are truly underpaid for what they do: research on cancer, diabetes, Alzheimer's, and all the rest of it.

So you have no input on how many hours you work as a teacher.

Go cure cancer, please.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To the teacher getting her middle school endorsement. No way will you EVER be able to put in 40 hour work weeks. Maybe 50 on a good week and especially if you have a 4 day week due to a holiday. The first few years will be the hardest and you can plan on 70-80 hour weeks then. Make sure you get at least 5 years in before having kids.

So what about all the teacher moms? Are they all really pulling 60 hour weeks while raising kids?

I don't know too many teacher moms. I see a lot of young teachers with no kids or young kids or middle aged empty nesters or those who just didn't have kids and literally have no life (they are the ones who tend to pile on the work).

I am joining the profession now that my kids are teens but I still feel like I'm burning the candles at both ends as I have mom's taxi duties many nights. No way in hell could I have been an effective teacher when my kids were younger. Hat's off to those supermom/teachers, wherever you are.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. To the teacher getting her middle school endorsement. No way will you EVER be able to put in 40 hour work weeks. Maybe 50 on a good week and especially if you have a 4 day week due to a holiday. The first few years will be the hardest and you can plan on 70-80 hour weeks then. Make sure you get at least 5 years in before having kids.

So what about all the teacher moms? Are they all really pulling 60 hour weeks while raising kids?