Anonymous
09/08/2017 19:45
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Cherry picking data to make a point isn't helpful. Looking at the OVERALL performance across grades for both schools over the last few years the results are within a few percentage points for various demographic groups.
The facts being cited are for one class in one year and out of line with all other data. This is cherry picking at its finest to suit a false narrative.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 19:43
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went over to the Great Schools website to compare how PBES and ESSES stack up for myself, and frankly I don't see a significant difference with regard to how minority students perform on standardized tests. In general, it seems no matter which Montgomery County school you attend demographic groups perform similarly. This supports the earlier notion that this reflects larger societal problems that exist beyond the walls of any one school.
Don't look at GS. Look at the Maryland School Report Card at last year's PARCC results.
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:5:15:0756:3:N:10:13:2:1:4:1:1:2:3
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:4:15:0749:3:N:12:13:1:1:4:1:1:2:3
Poke around with the demographic filters on the site, and you will see some stark differences. For example, at ESS overall, 42.3% of 4th graders met expectations on the PARCC English test. Broken down demographically, 45.5% of white students met expectations, 41.5% of black students did, and 33 percent of Hispanic students did. Compare that to Piney Branch where overall 43.3% of 4th graders met expectations, but 68.2% of white students did, while only 27.9% of Hispanic and 22.2% of black students did. In fifth grade English, 53% of ESS students met expectations and 56.8% of PBES 5th graders met expectations. But at ESS, 58.8% of black students met expectations, compared to 50% of white students. The black students outperformed the white students. At PBES, only 38.2% of black students met expectations on 5th grade English, compared to 75.4% of white students, and 33.3% of hispanic students.
fifth grade math, at PBES 33.9% of students met expectations overall. - 52% of white students, 20.6% of black students and less that 5% of hispanic students. At ESS, 30.3% of 5th graders mete expectations overall 30% of white students and 29.4% of black students and 29.4% of Hispanic students.
The differences are not as stark in every grade, but there is clearly something concerning happening.
I really really don't want this to become about PBES vs. ESS, or PBES vs. RT.
All are fine schools, with strengths and weaknesses, and are not entirely apples-to-apples comparisons in some ways as well.
PBES has its own HGC and gets the "gifted" out of bounds kids from the TPES program.
RT has the language immersion, which is a double edged sword in that it selects for motivated middle class families but some research indicates it could temporarily depress English Language Arts test scores. It also almost certainly has the most recently arrived Emerging Bilingual (ESOL) kids of perhaps any school in the DCC.
ESS has a learning disabilities magnet, but appears to also have some extra programming for high performing kids, at least according to programs that my friends' kids are being offered that aren't offered at other schools.
So, it's not all apples-to-apples and all of the schools have positives and negatives. All are perfectly fine choices, so I don't want this to turn into yet another chance to piss on lower income schools with a lot of kids of color.
No, I think the point of the PP's information was that the white children are doing fine at both schools, but the black students are doing much worse at PBES. As a parent of color I find it a little disturbing, but I'm not sure what to really make of it. I think there is a higher black immigrant population at PBES that might be affecting the scores, but we just don't have enough information to say for sure[b].
Actually, we do have the information, and it is the reverse of what you guessed.
According to the schools' at a glance reports, of the black students at ESS, 34% are FARMS and 15.9% are ESOL. At Piney Branch, 18.6% of black students are FARMS and only 7% are ESOL.
links please!
Anonymous
09/08/2017 17:15
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went over to the Great Schools website to compare how PBES and ESSES stack up for myself, and frankly I don't see a significant difference with regard to how minority students perform on standardized tests. In general, it seems no matter which Montgomery County school you attend demographic groups perform similarly. This supports the earlier notion that this reflects larger societal problems that exist beyond the walls of any one school.
Don't look at GS. Look at the Maryland School Report Card at last year's PARCC results.
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:5:15:0756:3:N:10:13:2:1:4:1:1:2:3
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:4:15:0749:3:N:12:13:1:1:4:1:1:2:3
Poke around with the demographic filters on the site, and you will see some stark differences. For example, at ESS overall, 42.3% of 4th graders met expectations on the PARCC English test. Broken down demographically, 45.5% of white students met expectations, 41.5% of black students did, and 33 percent of Hispanic students did. Compare that to Piney Branch where overall 43.3% of 4th graders met expectations, but 68.2% of white students did, while only 27.9% of Hispanic and 22.2% of black students did. In fifth grade English, 53% of ESS students met expectations and 56.8% of PBES 5th graders met expectations. But at ESS, 58.8% of black students met expectations, compared to 50% of white students. The black students outperformed the white students. At PBES, only 38.2% of black students met expectations on 5th grade English, compared to 75.4% of white students, and 33.3% of hispanic students.
fifth grade math, at PBES 33.9% of students met expectations overall. - 52% of white students, 20.6% of black students and less that 5% of hispanic students. At ESS, 30.3% of 5th graders mete expectations overall 30% of white students and 29.4% of black students and 29.4% of Hispanic students.
The differences are not as stark in every grade, but there is clearly something concerning happening.
I really really don't want this to become about PBES vs. ESS, or PBES vs. RT.
All are fine schools, with strengths and weaknesses, and are not entirely apples-to-apples comparisons in some ways as well.
PBES has its own HGC and gets the "gifted" out of bounds kids from the TPES program.
RT has the language immersion, which is a double edged sword in that it selects for motivated middle class families but some research indicates it could temporarily depress English Language Arts test scores. It also almost certainly has the most recently arrived Emerging Bilingual (ESOL) kids of perhaps any school in the DCC.
ESS has a learning disabilities magnet, but appears to also have some extra programming for high performing kids, at least according to programs that my friends' kids are being offered that aren't offered at other schools.
So, it's not all apples-to-apples and all of the schools have positives and negatives. All are perfectly fine choices, so I don't want this to turn into yet another chance to piss on lower income schools with a lot of kids of color.
No, I think the point of the PP's information was that the white children are doing fine at both schools, but the black students are doing much worse at PBES. As a parent of color I find it a little disturbing, but I'm not sure what to really make of it. I think there is a higher black immigrant population at PBES that might be affecting the scores, but we just don't have enough information to say for sure[b].
Actually, we do have the information, and it is the reverse of what you guessed.
According to the schools' at a glance reports, of the black students at ESS, 34% are FARMS and 15.9% are ESOL. At Piney Branch, 18.6% of black students are FARMS and only 7% are ESOL.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 15:31
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went over to the Great Schools website to compare how PBES and ESSES stack up for myself, and frankly I don't see a significant difference with regard to how minority students perform on standardized tests. In general, it seems no matter which Montgomery County school you attend demographic groups perform similarly. This supports the earlier notion that this reflects larger societal problems that exist beyond the walls of any one school.
Don't look at GS. Look at the Maryland School Report Card at last year's PARCC results.
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:5:15:0756:3:N:10:13:2:1:4:1:1:2:3
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:4:15:0749:3:N:12:13:1:1:4:1:1:2:3
Poke around with the demographic filters on the site, and you will see some stark differences. For example, at ESS overall, 42.3% of 4th graders met expectations on the PARCC English test. Broken down demographically, 45.5% of white students met expectations, 41.5% of black students did, and 33 percent of Hispanic students did. Compare that to Piney Branch where overall 43.3% of 4th graders met expectations, but 68.2% of white students did, while only 27.9% of Hispanic and 22.2% of black students did. In fifth grade English, 53% of ESS students met expectations and 56.8% of PBES 5th graders met expectations. But at ESS, 58.8% of black students met expectations, compared to 50% of white students. The black students outperformed the white students. At PBES, only 38.2% of black students met expectations on 5th grade English, compared to 75.4% of white students, and 33.3% of hispanic students.
fifth grade math, at PBES 33.9% of students met expectations overall. - 52% of white students, 20.6% of black students and less that 5% of hispanic students. At ESS, 30.3% of 5th graders mete expectations overall 30% of white students and 29.4% of black students and 29.4% of Hispanic students.
The differences are not as stark in every grade, but there is clearly something concerning happening.
I really really don't want this to become about PBES vs. ESS, or PBES vs. RT.
All are fine schools, with strengths and weaknesses, and are not entirely apples-to-apples comparisons in some ways as well.
PBES has its own HGC and gets the "gifted" out of bounds kids from the TPES program.
RT has the language immersion, which is a double edged sword in that it selects for motivated middle class families but some research indicates it could temporarily depress English Language Arts test scores. It also almost certainly has the most recently arrived Emerging Bilingual (ESOL) kids of perhaps any school in the DCC.
ESS has a learning disabilities magnet, but appears to also have some extra programming for high performing kids, at least according to programs that my friends' kids are being offered that aren't offered at other schools.
So, it's not all apples-to-apples and all of the schools have positives and negatives. All are perfectly fine choices, so I don't want this to turn into yet another chance to piss on lower income schools with a lot of kids of color.
No, I think the point of the PP's information was that the white children are doing fine at both schools, but the black students are doing much worse at PBES. As a parent of color I find it a little disturbing, but I'm not sure what to really make of it. I think there is a higher black immigrant population at PBES that might be affecting the scores, but we just don't have enough information to say for sure.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 15:29
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Cherry picking data to make a point isn't helpful. Looking at the OVERALL performance across grades for both schools over the last few years the results are within a few percentage points for various demographic groups.
The GS data is from 2015!!
Anonymous
09/08/2017 15:28
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Cherry picking data to make a point isn't helpful. Looking at the OVERALL performance across grades for both schools over the last few years the results are within a few percentage points for various demographic groups.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 15:20
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I went over to the Great Schools website to compare how PBES and ESSES stack up for myself, and frankly I don't see a significant difference with regard to how minority students perform on standardized tests. In general, it seems no matter which Montgomery County school you attend demographic groups perform similarly. This supports the earlier notion that this reflects larger societal problems that exist beyond the walls of any one school.
Don't look at GS. Look at the Maryland School Report Card at last year's PARCC results.
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:5:15:0756:3:N:10:13:2:1:4:1:1:2:3
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:4:15:0749:3:N:12:13:1:1:4:1:1:2:3
Poke around with the demographic filters on the site, and you will see some stark differences. For example, at ESS overall, 42.3% of 4th graders met expectations on the PARCC English test. Broken down demographically, 45.5% of white students met expectations, 41.5% of black students did, and 33 percent of Hispanic students did. Compare that to Piney Branch where overall 43.3% of 4th graders met expectations, but 68.2% of white students did, while only 27.9% of Hispanic and 22.2% of black students did. In fifth grade English, 53% of ESS students met expectations and 56.8% of PBES 5th graders met expectations. But at ESS, 58.8% of black students met expectations, compared to 50% of white students. The black students outperformed the white students. At PBES, only 38.2% of black students met expectations on 5th grade English, compared to 75.4% of white students, and 33.3% of hispanic students.
fifth grade math, at PBES 33.9% of students met expectations overall. - 52% of white students, 20.6% of black students and less that 5% of hispanic students. At ESS, 30.3% of 5th graders mete expectations overall 30% of white students and 29.4% of black students and 29.4% of Hispanic students.
The differences are not as stark in every grade, but there is clearly something concerning happening.
I really really don't want this to become about PBES vs. ESS, or PBES vs. RT.
All are fine schools, with strengths and weaknesses, and are not entirely apples-to-apples comparisons in some ways as well.
PBES has its own HGC and gets the "gifted" out of bounds kids from the TPES program.
RT has the language immersion, which is a double edged sword in that it selects for motivated middle class families but some research indicates it could temporarily depress English Language Arts test scores. It also almost certainly has the most recently arrived Emerging Bilingual (ESOL) kids of perhaps any school in the DCC.
ESS has a learning disabilities magnet, but appears to also have some extra programming for high performing kids, at least according to programs that my friends' kids are being offered that aren't offered at other schools.
So, it's not all apples-to-apples and all of the schools have positives and negatives. All are perfectly fine choices, so I don't want this to turn into yet another chance to piss on lower income schools with a lot of kids of color.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 14:27
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:I went over to the Great Schools website to compare how PBES and ESSES stack up for myself, and frankly I don't see a significant difference with regard to how minority students perform on standardized tests. In general, it seems no matter which Montgomery County school you attend demographic groups perform similarly. This supports the earlier notion that this reflects larger societal problems that exist beyond the walls of any one school.
Don't look at GS. Look at the Maryland School Report Card at last year's PARCC results.
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:5:15:0756:3:N:10:13:2:1:4:1:1:2:3
http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/ParccResults.aspx?PV=71:4:15:0749:3:N:12:13:1:1:4:1:1:2:3
Poke around with the demographic filters on the site, and you will see some stark differences. For example, at ESS overall, 42.3% of 4th graders met expectations on the PARCC English test. Broken down demographically, 45.5% of white students met expectations, 41.5% of black students did, and 33 percent of Hispanic students did. Compare that to Piney Branch where overall 43.3% of 4th graders met expectations, but 68.2% of white students did, while only 27.9% of Hispanic and 22.2% of black students did. In fifth grade English, 53% of ESS students met expectations and 56.8% of PBES 5th graders met expectations. But at ESS, 58.8% of black students met expectations, compared to 50% of white students. The black students outperformed the white students. At PBES, only 38.2% of black students met expectations on 5th grade English, compared to 75.4% of white students, and 33.3% of hispanic students.
fifth grade math, at PBES 33.9% of students met expectations overall. - 52% of white students, 20.6% of black students and less that 5% of hispanic students. At ESS, 30.3% of 5th graders mete expectations overall 30% of white students and 29.4% of black students and 29.4% of Hispanic students.
The differences are not as stark in every grade, but there is clearly something concerning happening.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 13:39
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
I went over to the Great Schools website to compare how PBES and ESSES stack up for myself, and frankly I don't see a significant difference with regard to how minority students perform on standardized tests. In general, it seems no matter which Montgomery County school you attend demographic groups perform similarly. This supports the earlier notion that this reflects larger societal problems that exist beyond the walls of any one school.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 12:46
Subject: Re:Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:We are a white family living in the historic district in TKPK and love it. We have kids at both TPES and PBES...my older child has always been in advanced math classes and the diversity in those classes closely reflect the diversity of the school (ie - about 35% of the class was white). However, I'm troubled by the achievement gap at PBES...something is happening in the older grades. I also wonder if the more "at risk" population at PBES is more "at risk" than at other local schools...perhaps poorer, larger percentage ESOL or new arrivals to the US.
It's definitely possible. I have children at a W school and it's not the teaching that is better. It has so much to do with what goes on at home including the additional support that parents are able to provide. Honestly, I think my kids have had some pretty bad teachers (and good ones) and if it were not for the extra tutoring I am able to provide for them, they wouldn't be doing as well. I think you see that a lot at the W schools. As others have often stated, the difference in schools is not the curriculum or staff, it's the peer grouping and home support.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 12:30
Subject: Re:Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
We are a white family living in the historic district in TKPK and love it. We have kids at both TPES and PBES...my older child has always been in advanced math classes and the diversity in those classes closely reflect the diversity of the school (ie - about 35% of the class was white). However, I'm troubled by the achievement gap at PBES...something is happening in the older grades. I also wonder if the more "at risk" population at PBES is more "at risk" than at other local schools...perhaps poorer, larger percentage ESOL or new arrivals to the US.
Anonymous
09/08/2017 11:50
Subject: Re:Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Saw this a while back and felt it provided some great background on TKPK.
DCUM has a certain spin on things which is helpful but should be taken with a grain of salt. Here's some mainstream press on TKPK to offset the usual h8rs.
WaPo: Takoma Park liberals at the core of (Obama’s) White House
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/takoma-par...ry.html?utm_term=.a73fac394fae
NYT: Takoma Park, MD.: A Diverse Washington, DC Suburb
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/25/realestate/tako...erse-washington-dc-suburb.html
Thrillest: Coolest Suburbs in America’s 35 Biggest Metro Areas
https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/best-subur...t-suburb-in-35-american-cities
Anonymous
09/08/2017 10:25
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
In the time I've lived here TKPK keeps getting better and better!! 
Anonymous
09/08/2017 10:20
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regardless, it's a safe bet that PBES will be an 8 by next year and a 9 by 2019.
Or a 7...6. 8 seems to be a blip not a historical average.
I suspect it will go up, actually. GS scores are based on test scores, and PBES will soon be keeping all of their HGC kids instead of giving those kids (and their test scores) to Pine Crest and Oak View. Now, whether that score increase will actually mean anything for kids not in the HGC classroom?
My thoughts exactly!
Anonymous
09/08/2017 08:53
Subject: Would you live in Takoma Park, MD with young family?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Regardless, it's a safe bet that PBES will be an 8 by next year and a 9 by 2019.
Or a 7...6. 8 seems to be a blip not a historical average.
I suspect it will go up, actually. GS scores are based on test scores, and PBES will soon be keeping all of their HGC kids instead of giving those kids (and their test scores) to Pine Crest and Oak View. Now, whether that score increase will actually mean anything for kids not in the HGC classroom?
I suspect the historic part will get a few degrees more exspencive and force out the crunchy contingent causing it to lose it's hip edge and like everything faddish, it will decline in popularity as the next hot area takes off. Then the bunch of upperly mobile set w/rapidly aging children who nationalized the area will open their eyes to just how Far East and north they live while realizing that little max isn't going to make the Magnet and flee.
One of might be right
