Anonymous wrote:What people don't always consider is that if you want to send your DC away, you can...they can go to any community college in the state. Students at Piedmont Community College in Charlottesville are even allowed to participate in some UVA activities like the marching band.

This can be a good option and improve the student's chances of sticking with the CC because they'll likely feel more on-track to get to UVA. I went to Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo CA, which is very hard to get into but had a guaranteed transfer program with the local CC (Cuesta College). It was pretty common for students to move to SLO to attend Cuesta and then transfer to Poly. They could even get a dorm-like experience by living in privately run off-campus student apartments.

I did an associate's degree at NoVA (after I got my bachelor's degrees) when I did a career switch and needed to bone up on the basics in a new area but didn't need a whole new BA/BS.

The quality of education that I got at the public university at which I did my undergraduate work was head and shoulders above the classes I took at NoVA. NoVA classes were taught mostly by adjuncts (which has its pros and cons), and the level of classroom discussion, group project work, and university support were not nearly as good.

If my child desperately wanted to go to a Virginia 4-year and the 2+2 was the only way to accomplish that, we'd look at it, but it's not my first choice.

What people don't always consider is that if you want to send your DC away, you can...they can go to any community college in the state. Students at Piedmont Community College in Charlottesville are even allowed to participate in some UVA activities like the marching band.

This is especially true at schools where building relationships is important, like UVA and maybe W&M. You are already at a disadvantage if your arrive on campus as a junior when everyone else has been making contacts for two years already.

Life is full of disadvantages and advantages. If the kid made the choice to do this, I suspect they already know the issues.

Kids transfer in every year from all sorts of schools. Some transfer in from private colleges or other state schools. I have a neighbor who transferred from Wand L--into the Comm School at UVA. He certainly knew what he was getting into. (Not sure if he went directly to Comm school or did that after he transferred--Comm school is quite competitive.)

I think we all agree this is not the same as the four year experience. While there are disadvantages, there are also advantages--more mature, less likely to make poor choices?

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want my child going to community college, because some kids get "stuck" in that limbo. Living at home, working part-time or full-time, hanging with friends from high school who didn't go away to college - school can take a backseat. And it's just not the same experience as going away to school for 4 years, living independently, not having mom/dad around. I want the full college experience to be her first priority for 4 years, like it was for me.

I understand if CC to University works better for some families, especially financially.

This is especially true at schools where building relationships is important, like UVA and maybe W&M. You are already at a disadvantage if your arrive on campus as a junior when everyone else has been making contacts for two years already.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do schools like UVA even have room to accept community college transfers, when there are so many qualified high school students that they are turning down? (I assume)

Dirty little secret - Not too may students actually make it to UVA from this program...

About 300 a year. That's not bad!

But how many started out on that path?

Anonymous wrote:These posts are starting to sound planted.....

"CC was great. Better than Cats."

Umm... maybe there are *actually* lots of people who have had success with the 2+2 program? What sounds planted are the negative Nellies, insisting it's just not going to work. Absurd.

Anonymous wrote:These posts are starting to sound planted.....

"CC was great. Better than Cats."

Um, that's pretty paranoid of you. Why would you think it's so impossible that people would have a good experience at a community college?

Ha, I'm PP from 20:34. I don't normally read this part of the forum but the title caught my eye because I wonder the same thing: why don't more people go this route?

Maybe that's how some of the other PPs found their way to this thread, too!

These posts are starting to sound planted.....

"CC was great. Better than Cats."

I'm another person who went the CC route, by choice. Loved my CC experience. I was a very strong student and the classes were small; I got a lot of attention from professors who were not used to seeing my level of work and that was gratifying. Transferred after two years to UVA and then on to Ivy League grad school.

No regrets! I'll recommend the path to my kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it is really hard to get into UVA and Will/Mary and even Va Tech (for engineering), so why don't more kids do the 2 + 2 program to get guaranteed admission?

Is it all about the prestige and the pressure to go to a "real" college? Is it hard to meet the requirements for the guaranteed admission agreement? From what you've heard, what is the reason so few kids do this?

Parents, do you think it is better to go 4 yrs to JMU or Mary Washington or CNU and get a degree there vs. the 2 +2 program and getting a diploma from UVA/WM/VT?

One of the conclusions of the (most recent?) transfers report was that many students do not go on a 2+2 path but take longer both at CC and at the selected 4 yr school, therefore nullifying the cost savings.

The biggest barrier to actualizing Virginia’s affordability potential is the efficiency with which
students traverse the pathway that Virginia policy has established for students. Consider: A
single year’s extra enrollment can eliminate half the available savings in living costs alone. Thus,
the timelines most typically pursued by students represent a serious impediment to realizing
potential savings. A student taking three years at a community college plus another three years
at a four-year institution is the norm. Depending on a student’s particular circumstances, those
“normal” extra two years can effectively wipe out the potential savings available through
transfer.

http://www.schev.edu/docs/default-source/Reports-and-Studies/2016-reports/transferreport2016.pdf

But there's no evidence that these students would have completed the BA in 4 years if they had gone straight to that route. Students who start at CC likely differ from students who start at BA-granting institutions.

I do not believe the report considers The Other Road.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems like it is really hard to get into UVA and Will/Mary and even Va Tech (for engineering), so why don't more kids do the 2 + 2 program to get guaranteed admission?

Is it all about the prestige and the pressure to go to a "real" college? Is it hard to meet the requirements for the guaranteed admission agreement? From what you've heard, what is the reason so few kids do this?

Parents, do you think it is better to go 4 yrs to JMU or Mary Washington or CNU and get a degree there vs. the 2 +2 program and getting a diploma from UVA/WM/VT?

One of the conclusions of the (most recent?) transfers report was that many students do not go on a 2+2 path but take longer both at CC and at the selected 4 yr school, therefore nullifying the cost savings.

The biggest barrier to actualizing Virginia’s affordability potential is the efficiency with which
students traverse the pathway that Virginia policy has established for students. Consider: A
single year’s extra enrollment can eliminate half the available savings in living costs alone. Thus,
the timelines most typically pursued by students represent a serious impediment to realizing
potential savings. A student taking three years at a community college plus another three years
at a four-year institution is the norm. Depending on a student’s particular circumstances, those
“normal” extra two years can effectively wipe out the potential savings available through
transfer.

http://www.schev.edu/docs/default-source/Reports-and-Studies/2016-reports/transferreport2016.pdf

But there's no evidence that these students would have completed the BA in 4 years if they had gone straight to that route. Students who start at CC likely differ from students who start at BA-granting institutions.

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't want my child going to community college, because some kids get "stuck" in that limbo. Living at home, working part-time or full-time, hanging with friends from high school who didn't go away to college - school can take a backseat. And it's just not the same experience as going away to school for 4 years, living independently, not having mom/dad around. I want the full college experience to be her first priority for 4 years, like it was for me.

I understand if CC to University works better for some families, especially financially.

There are many family situations that would be better served with CC--there is nothing wrong with that. Family situations other than financial might also contribute, although, the financial consideration is the most common. There could also be a health issue for some. Illness in the family--lots of possibilities.

There are also kids who have just missed getting into WM or UVA --and very much want to go to those schools.

There are kids who may be able to afford a four year university now--but want to go on to medical school or graduate school and would prefer to save their money for that.

Mine were able to go to a four year university without debt. Had they not been able to do that, I would have strongly encouraged them to go to CC --rather than graduate with huge debt.

Anonymous wrote:OP here,

Thanks for all the detailed reports and for the personal accounts and thoughts on why it does/doesn't work. I appreciate that this DCUM discussion was actually productive!! (and didn't devolve into some of the usual debates).

This has really given me something to think about re: the feasibility of actually getting the UVA or WM degree in the end vs. getting a degree at another university/college.

I have never worked harder, anywhere, than I did at William and Mary. Maybe it has changed now. But it will be an adjustment from cc.