Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how many heartless people are on this board. For those saying that the employee should have requested the annual leave beforehand, did you ever stop to think that maybe she's struggling with postpartum depression or another post delivery complication. Or like others have suggested, maybe her child care situation fell through at the last minute. She's asking to take vacation time that she accrued, not a handout. For those saying she is making women looking bad for doing so, if it was a man going through a major medical procedure and asking for a little additional leave time I doubt you'd be so judgmental.

+1.

And that's fine. AND just like every other employee who asks for vacation, it has to be approved by the boss. The boss has a responsibility to the organization to make sure there's enough coverage. Just because you ask for vacation time doesn't mean it gets approved. It's summer time, which is when many folks like to use their vacation time. If this employee wants to share that she is struggling with childcare or postpartum depression and that's why she needs to use her vacation, she can certainly do that and her boss can take that into account when making a decision whether to approve or not. But it's not okay for the boss to be expected to make guesses about that. No one here knows why this employee is asking for vacation time.

Because she just had a BABY. She created life. She went through a traumatic experience and has hormones making her attached to the baby. Gosh, I hate men.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how many heartless people are on this board. For those saying that the employee should have requested the annual leave beforehand, did you ever stop to think that maybe she's struggling with postpartum depression or another post delivery complication. Or like others have suggested, maybe her child care situation fell through at the last minute. She's asking to take vacation time that she accrued, not a handout. For those saying she is making women looking bad for doing so, if it was a man going through a major medical procedure and asking for a little additional leave time I doubt you'd be so judgmental.

+1.

And that's fine. AND just like every other employee who asks for vacation, it has to be approved by the boss. The boss has a responsibility to the organization to make sure there's enough coverage. Just because you ask for vacation time doesn't mean it gets approved. It's summer time, which is when many folks like to use their vacation time. If this employee wants to share that she is struggling with childcare or postpartum depression and that's why she needs to use her vacation, she can certainly do that and her boss can take that into account when making a decision whether to approve or not. But it's not okay for the boss to be expected to make guesses about that. No one here knows why this employee is asking for vacation time.

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how many heartless people are on this board. For those saying that the employee should have requested the annual leave beforehand, did you ever stop to think that maybe she's struggling with postpartum depression or another post delivery complication. Or like others have suggested, maybe her child care situation fell through at the last minute. She's asking to take vacation time that she accrued, not a handout. For those saying she is making women looking bad for doing so, if it was a man going through a major medical procedure and asking for a little additional leave time I doubt you'd be so judgmental.

+1.

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing how many heartless people are on this board. For those saying that the employee should have requested the annual leave beforehand, did you ever stop to think that maybe she's struggling with postpartum depression or another post delivery complication. Or like others have suggested, maybe her child care situation fell through at the last minute. She's asking to take vacation time that she accrued, not a handout. For those saying she is making women looking bad for doing so, if it was a man going through a major medical procedure and asking for a little additional leave time I doubt you'd be so judgmental.

I think you are wrong. I think people would feel the same about a man who seemed to be abusing leave. She had 3 months of leave -- that's all a man would get for a medical issue. Now she wants to take unscheduled vacation time off.

If there were a medical issue (PPD or something of that nature) or some other hardship issue, she could frame it that way to her boss and explain there are extenuating circumstances. But it seems like that's not the case.

And just because you accrue vacation time doesn't mean you can use it whenever you want, without warning. Almost all employers require the vacation time be approved in advance.

I have a relative who pulled this kind of thing. She was only scheduled to take 3 months FMLA. She stretched it out to 5 months and then wanted to take leave without pay. Her boss finally said she had to report to work the following monday or she wouldn't have a job. She reported to work. She still acts like a victim, but there were no extenuating circumstances. And it seemed to me that it was her plan all along to take vacation leave immediately after the FMLA (but without scheduling it in advance b/c she knew it would be denied). Her boss seems like OP -- was resistant to say no and that's why he kept giving in to letting her use up her vacation time, sick leave (on top of the FMLA/maternity leave). But then he had enough. I think her hope all along was to be able to take 6 months leave. She thought she was a "valuable" employee, and I think she overrated her value.

It's amazing how many heartless people are on this board. For those saying that the employee should have requested the annual leave beforehand, did you ever stop to think that maybe she's struggling with postpartum depression or another post delivery complication. Or like others have suggested, maybe her child care situation fell through at the last minute. She's asking to take vacation time that she accrued, not a handout. For those saying she is making women looking bad for doing so, if it was a man going through a major medical procedure and asking for a little additional leave time I doubt you'd be so judgmental.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is what could be going on, based on what I experienced myself and knowing other new mothers on maternity leaves. Even when you know you have to go back to work, because your family will not be able to pay the bills if you do not, and child care is all lined up, there is a primal and desperate terror at the thought of leaving your infant child for so many hours each day.

This employee may understand on a rational level that such a last minute request to use vacation time is unprofessional and inconsiderate.

However, emotionally, she may be searching for any way out of having to part from her baby. Please keep this in mind when denying the extension, and do it both kindly and firmly. Maybe offer half days the first week back, or mention that there is a pumping area reserved for her to use.

Be as supportive as you can for what is an exhausting and time and difficult transition for many mothers. There is just something gut wrenching about the anxiety of managing the transition back to work, for many new moms.

This is nuts. Employer should not have to deal with (female) employees in this manner. Employer offered a very reasonable paid maternity leave. This employee nonsense really hurts women professionally.

This! As a woman who did a lot of hiring, I started to find myself favoring the male candidates. I needed butts in chairs doing the work.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet she never comes back. I would start looking to replace her. ~Another small business owner

+1 Do you pay out unused vacation?

I agree. But be prepared for her to be taking unscheduled time off all the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla--
Thanks for your email. The pictures you sent of Larlita are just precious.
Unfortunately I cannot approve your request for vacation from August 1-14. As you know, we have to balance out the workload when one of us is on vacation. We already scheduled for others to take leave during that time. The best I can do is to approve Aug 1-7 with a return date of August 8th. We look forward to seeing you then. Please let me know what questions you might have and/or ways I can support your return.

Molly

This seems like a good start.

Setting aside the debate about what's fair for paid leave etc, what rubs me the wrong way is this woman is trying to tack on vacation at the last minute. The women I know who added on vacation to their paid maternity leave set this up well in advance before giving birth, so that they would not catch their employer off guard.

I think this is the nub of the issue. Others have had to plan their own work and leave around one absent employee. It is unfair to extend her leave and disturb other's expectations. I bet that other staff have already put in their leave requests for the summer based on the expected date of return of the employee on maternity issue.

This is missing the big picture. What's the cost to lose this employee? Surely it is worth letting someone take vacation to take care of a newborn so that they remain an employee and continue working for the company. Now maybe you don't value this employee? If you don't then say no.

Fwiw this is why we need paid leave policies. Op shouldn't be forced to make such an awful decision and the poor woman shouldn't be forced to return to work at 12 weeks in order to keep her job. We need to stop having babies for men until this ridiculousness stops.

And you're missing an even bigger picture. Said employee is acting like an entitled brat, and wants the other 4 employees to cover for her, at the last minute. What's the cost to lose 4 employees?

Don't presume it's becauss she's a cliched weeping mess that doesn't want to leave her baby. I couldn't wait to get back to work but I didn't have any child care that would take the baby until three weeks before I had to go back. I was on every waiting list and had been from the second I found out I was pregnant, called the local providers all the time - nothing. I got lucky because someone knew of someone just opening a home daycare (great - untried and untested, just what you want!). I had a proper center lined up for the fall, but I had to go back in June so I was scrambling and took a terrible option so I could pay the bills. I was a fed so I didn't have any paid maternity leave in the first place - I had been hoarding leave since my 20s so that I could have a kid at 40 and get some time off without losing a paycheck.

People can be great planners and still find themselves in a bind. Maybe your employee isn't so lucky as I got.

Update OP? What did you decide to do?

She's not coming back. She's showing zero concern about her job and probably just wants to give notice after getting more paid vacation. The other problem with giving her all her leave now is she will still be requesting more leave for doctor's appointments and sick days - if by some miracle she comes back.


Fwiw, I'm a federal worker who got 0 days of paid maternity leave. 0.

Anonymous wrote:I recommend a phone call and then documenting in email. I'm assuming others also have to get vacation requests approved, like you wouldn't let 3 people be out the same week.


"Jane, unfortunately I'm not able to accommodate the timing and length of that vacation request. You of course are entitled to use your vacation time, but the timing has to be approved to fit with the nerds of the business and the rest of the team's schedule. I have a couple of ideas for how we could find a schedule that works for everyone, but it would be really helpful to know what made you request the extended leave. That way maybe we can find a solution that works for everyone."

Then see her reaction. I'm thinking you could:
- Offer her to use them in partial days
- Offer an ease in period of working 2 days the first week, 3 days the next week, 4 days the week after that, etc
- Give her the windows of time it will work for her to take vacation
- let her go "part time" for several weeks, maybe working 3 or 4 days a week

Try to get to the root of her issue. She may be having child care issues, but has something lined up for 3 weeks from now. That will mean a different option will be appealing to her than if she is just trying to use up her vacation time before she quits vs if the baby has some doctors appointments vs if her spouse is traveling for work vs she just wants a longer time off and so on.

This is stupid. "It would be helpful to know what made you request the leave"? "Get to the root cause"? She doesn't want to leave her baby, you moron

So where is Daddy in this situation? He could take his FMLA. With my first, I took 8 weeks full time. Then went back part time for the next month. My husband used FMLA to "bond" and take care of baby while I went to work, extending the time before sending baby to day care. Fathers need to share a little more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let her have the time off.

it sounds like the problem is that she mentioned using her vacation time,
would you feel the same way if it was unpaid leave? In that case, would she still need the same type of approval as vacation? Can you hire someone temporarily until she returns?

Also, have you ever had a Baby?

Responses like this are so clueless. Where is the line? She already got FAR more than most women get even at big companies, let alone at a small company. What if she wanted 6 months off?

Have you ever had a baby is sucj an insulting question. This is about business, not creating a social safety net for new mothers.

Then what big company? As a professional, most companies offer 12 weeks now. I've been in banking, finance and law. I now work at a nonprofit and we even give 12 weeks. It's a crapshoot. Women in the US work less than in other developed countries. We need women to grow the economy. One of the reasons women work less is b/c in the US has such poor maternity leave policies. It was literally on the WSJ podcast today.

Now, when my employees come back, I don't want to hear about child care issues. I really don't. I give the time needed upfront, but my expectation is that when you are back, you are back.

You live and work in a bubble.

I work at a big law firm in DC. I got zero paid leave.

This can't possibly be true. Or at least it's not really big law. I had 18 weeks paid. I know others who got more.

I work in big law. I get zero paid leave. So yes it is true. I'm a non legal staff member though.

Anonymous wrote:Here is what could be going on, based on what I experienced myself and knowing other new mothers on maternity leaves. Even when you know you have to go back to work, because your family will not be able to pay the bills if you do not, and child care is all lined up, there is a primal and desperate terror at the thought of leaving your infant child for so many hours each day.

This employee may understand on a rational level that such a last minute request to use vacation time is unprofessional and inconsiderate.

However, emotionally, she may be searching for any way out of having to part from her baby. Please keep this in mind when denying the extension, and do it both kindly and firmly. Maybe offer half days the first week back, or mention that there is a pumping area reserved for her to use.

Be as supportive as you can for what is an exhausting and time and difficult transition for many mothers. There is just something gut wrenching about the anxiety of managing the transition back to work, for many new moms.

This is nuts. Employer should not have to deal with (female) employees in this manner. Employer offered a very reasonable paid maternity leave. This employee nonsense really hurts women professionally.