OP -- the top schools get the top kids. It's really not a mystery

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The state of college admissions today is quite shocking to me. I graduated high school in 2000, and I got accepted at some really impressive schools and so did my peers. My niece graduates from that same high school in a few weeks. Her GPA is higher than mine was PLUS she captained a Varsity team (I did not play a sport, nor did I hold a leadership position in any of my extracurricular clubs). She was rejected from schools in our home state that my friends and I scoffed at. I just can't believe the difference.

It's a buyers' market vs. a sellers' market. For Gen X parents, there was a huge college infrastructure that was created to educate Boomers, but many fewer students. Lots of spots, not many students. Gen X had lots of choices because there weren't many of us.

The two generations after us are much larger than we were. Our kids have to compete in a much larger cohort, but there aren't that many more spots. The schools can only ramp up the size of their classes so far.

Which means you will have a much higher quality student body at the next tier down from those top ranked schools. People need to get over being so fixated on a specific brand.

Anonymous wrote: I don't quite get this thread. H/Y/P/S take a substantial number of kids who are ranked No. 1 or No. 2 in their high school class (go down a few more slots in a very large public school or prestigious private or where the kids are closely cropped together at the top) based on rigorous course loads and generally very high standardized tests. If you start there, then add one or two meaningful EC's, write a great essay, and get great recommendations, that's about all you can do -- and at that point if it works or not is out of the kid's hands.

If a kid doesn't start with those academics, then I would argue almost be definition there must be a "hook" involved to get accepted -- and this thread is supposed to be about "unhooked" kids. .

The issue is that these days, there is very little differentiation in grades and SATs among the top 20 percent or so of the top schools, so there is no more 'class rank' or functionally there are about, say, 50-80 kids from top DMV public health schools who look virtually the same. And the top colleges are now filling up to around 15% of their class with international students, which is a big change & increase - which is taking a significant numbers of slots that used to be comprised of another layer of these types of kids. Honestly, it's probably more fair, where having gone to one of these schools 'back in the day', the top 20 percent of the kids could have probably done just fine at any university (including the Ivy I went to). So now the 'game' is to do something else that makes you 'stand out' differently than those other kids. Legacy connections or URM can be one of those factors -- a hook. Then things that are more 'achieved' - like a star athlete etc. (most parents have completely deluded thoughts & opinions about how the sports 'recruitment' or factors weigh in except for the most serious super stars). So 'kids these days' have to find that 'pointy' thing - or they will also do fine ending up at slightly less prestigious colleges.

Anonymous wrote:The state of college admissions today is quite shocking to me. I graduated high school in 2000, and I got accepted at some really impressive schools and so did my peers. My niece graduates from that same high school in a few weeks. Her GPA is higher than mine was PLUS she captained a Varsity team (I did not play a sport, nor did I hold a leadership position in any of my extracurricular clubs). She was rejected from schools in our home state that my friends and I scoffed at. I just can't believe the difference.

It's a buyers' market vs. a sellers' market. For Gen X parents, there was a huge college infrastructure that was created to educate Boomers, but many fewer students. Lots of spots, not many students. Gen X had lots of choices because there weren't many of us.

The two generations after us are much larger than we were. Our kids have to compete in a much larger cohort, but there aren't that many more spots. The schools can only ramp up the size of their classes so far.

I don't quite get this thread. H/Y/P/S take a substantial number of kids who are ranked No. 1 or No. 2 in their high school class (go down a few more slots in a very large public school or prestigious private or where the kids are closely cropped together at the top) based on rigorous course loads and generally very high standardized tests. If you start there, then add one or two meaningful EC's, write a great essay, and get great recommendations, that's about all you can do -- and at that point if it works or not is out of the kid's hands.

If a kid doesn't start with those academics, then I would argue almost be definition there must be a "hook" involved to get accepted -- and this thread is supposed to be about "unhooked" kids. .

Anonymous wrote:Looking at the profiles for a youth award. This is what two white girls headed to HYPS each have:

- All As (mostly APs)
- Founder of own charity (one is volunteering, the other is youth fitness related)
- Hundreds of volunteering hours at senior center, hospice, homeless shelter, children's hospital (since middle school)
- Raised tens of thousands of dollars for charity (since middle school, no less!)
- One plays musical instrument at very high level
- One plays individual sport at very high level (not playing in college)
- Two years working in research lab at local university
- Top 3 placements at regional science or writing events (since 9th)
- Handful of clubs at school, always an officer position (if not president)
- Doesn't mention ACT/SAT but I think we can fill in the blank
- Theater or debate or editor of school paper
- Super clean cut; outgoing, type A personality
- Bilingual

I don't know how the masses can ever compete with super kids like this.

you really only need one to two "pointy" stand out things. they wasted their time on some of the others.

My point was that OPs list is aburdly long. I am not worried about my kids list...but there is no way he could add much more. He is not even a top student. He will not be at a big name school...not a humble bragger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of this is impossible, it's just a combo of parents being super involved and kids buying in, i.e. motivated.

Most parents are too hands off, let their kids dick around most of the day. Or think being super dedicated to one (travel) sport with As and Bs is in any way impressive to colleges (it's not).

My child does a sport everyday afterschool. He is not a superstar with private coaching etc. This precludes most major club involvement. He does one other activity...granted it is scouts so it takes up weekend time too..but that is it for him. He has very little downtime in the week..granted he does get to bed at a decent hour (10?). He already has conflicts between sport and scouts. I look at that list and think either most of it is only done half way (not at all?) or majorly supported by parents or the kid is up till 3 am everyday.

What does he do in the off-season? Summers?

Does he hold a leadership position in scouts/is he likely to make Eagle?

Plenty of room to be impressive with those ECs.

3 seasons of sports. Summers are scout focused plus some vacation.

If he devotes that much time to scouting I'm sure he'll make Eagle. Eagle is a hugely impressive accomplishment, especially if you break down the service project etc. in a compelling way on the app. Add to that being a three-season athlete, your kid may not be in the elite of the elite, but he's in the running, maybe even for an Ivy depending on grades and scores. Stop humblebragging.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of this is impossible, it's just a combo of parents being super involved and kids buying in, i.e. motivated.

Most parents are too hands off, let their kids dick around most of the day. Or think being super dedicated to one (travel) sport with As and Bs is in any way impressive to colleges (it's not).

My child does a sport everyday afterschool. He is not a superstar with private coaching etc. This precludes most major club involvement. He does one other activity...granted it is scouts so it takes up weekend time too..but that is it for him. He has very little downtime in the week..granted he does get to bed at a decent hour (10?). He already has conflicts between sport and scouts. I look at that list and think either most of it is only done half way (not at all?) or majorly supported by parents or the kid is up till 3 am everyday.

What does he do in the off-season? Summers?

Does he hold a leadership position in scouts/is he likely to make Eagle?

Plenty of room to be impressive with those ECs.

3 seasons of sports. Summers are scout focused plus some vacation.