Anonymous
03/14/2017 15:20
Subject: Re:Marshall High School?
It may be helpful to consider that there is no equivalent "AP diploma" - students simply take AP courses and then test. Many students at Marshall take IB courses and then test. Far fewer do the significant extra work to qualify for the IB Diploma. The students who commit to this are truly taking on an exceptional workload with no equivalent in the AP world.
Also note that Marshall introduced the IB program in 1997 as part of a drive to attract a higher socio-economic class to the school. It was felt that a more diverse student body (and parental support) could help upgrade the school. The Marshall community is significantly more diverse socially and economically than the Madison community - students represent 82 countries and speak more than 65 languages - 46% are minorities (18% Asian,17% Hispanic, 5% African American and 6% multi-racial).
The IB program is effectively a 'school within a school' and those students who participate have little to no interaction in class rooms with the other students. Of course, in the athletics and other extra-curriculars there is more widespread participation. The result is that analysis of 'averages' is highly misleading. While hundreds of students take IB courses, very few commit to pursuing an IB Diploma. Marshall has an exceptional success rate with those students who did commit in 2015 - approximately 93% succeeded. As a percentage of the overall class, this select group is approximately 20%. Marshall's success with students taking IB exams is supported by the fact that in 20 courses, Marshall's IB average test score was greater than the world average.
And a final thought, before you condemn the IB program, consider that this program is international and both trains and evaluates teachers and students against their peers from around the world. An IB diploma from Marshall is directly equivalent to what is taught and tested in IB programs from France, Hong Kong, Bogota or Paris. The teachers are both taught and are evaluated on their grading each year - a sample of student work is assessed locally and then submitted to Geneva for independent evaluation with feedback to the teachers. The objectives of the IB Program are exactly aligned with the FCPS Portrait of a Graduate - embodying the goal of teaching students the skills necessary to succeed in the modern world. The AP program has no comprehensive evaluation and feedback, nor does it establish expectations for developing a broad skill set and capabilities that IB encompasses.
The IB program is certainly not for every student. It is writing intensive and has a substantial work requirement in addition to the regular classes. It requires 4 years of language with a minimum tested facility. It requires a substantial research paper. It requires a substantial service commitment. And it requires an additional class in the Theory of Knowledge (Philosophy). And it requires a high level of tested performance in a broad range of studies. IB students are actively recruited by the best universities and are successful in being accepted. I'll post again at the end of the month when the college acceptances are finalized.
I don't mean to diminish those students who undertake AP course work. My intention is to facilitate understanding of the difference between taking courses (either IB or AP) and the commitment to achieving an IB Diploma. I hope that helps...
Also note that Marshall introduced the IB program in 1997 as part of a drive to attract a higher socio-economic class to the school. It was felt that a more diverse student body (and parental support) could help upgrade the school. The Marshall community is significantly more diverse socially and economically than the Madison community - students represent 82 countries and speak more than 65 languages - 46% are minorities (18% Asian,17% Hispanic, 5% African American and 6% multi-racial).
The IB program is effectively a 'school within a school' and those students who participate have little to no interaction in class rooms with the other students. Of course, in the athletics and other extra-curriculars there is more widespread participation. The result is that analysis of 'averages' is highly misleading. While hundreds of students take IB courses, very few commit to pursuing an IB Diploma. Marshall has an exceptional success rate with those students who did commit in 2015 - approximately 93% succeeded. As a percentage of the overall class, this select group is approximately 20%. Marshall's success with students taking IB exams is supported by the fact that in 20 courses, Marshall's IB average test score was greater than the world average.
And a final thought, before you condemn the IB program, consider that this program is international and both trains and evaluates teachers and students against their peers from around the world. An IB diploma from Marshall is directly equivalent to what is taught and tested in IB programs from France, Hong Kong, Bogota or Paris. The teachers are both taught and are evaluated on their grading each year - a sample of student work is assessed locally and then submitted to Geneva for independent evaluation with feedback to the teachers. The objectives of the IB Program are exactly aligned with the FCPS Portrait of a Graduate - embodying the goal of teaching students the skills necessary to succeed in the modern world. The AP program has no comprehensive evaluation and feedback, nor does it establish expectations for developing a broad skill set and capabilities that IB encompasses.
The IB program is certainly not for every student. It is writing intensive and has a substantial work requirement in addition to the regular classes. It requires 4 years of language with a minimum tested facility. It requires a substantial research paper. It requires a substantial service commitment. And it requires an additional class in the Theory of Knowledge (Philosophy). And it requires a high level of tested performance in a broad range of studies. IB students are actively recruited by the best universities and are successful in being accepted. I'll post again at the end of the month when the college acceptances are finalized.
I don't mean to diminish those students who undertake AP course work. My intention is to facilitate understanding of the difference between taking courses (either IB or AP) and the commitment to achieving an IB Diploma. I hope that helps...
Anonymous
03/14/2017 07:39
Subject: Re:Marshall High School?
I'd stick with Madison. Stronger school, and much better community support than Marshall.
Anonymous
03/14/2017 03:04
Subject: Marshall High School?
Does Fairfax zcounty hace Sections n 8 requirements? Wher I grew up every Tientsin is required to provide affordable household ngboptions.
Anonymous
03/14/2017 03:03
Subject: Marshall High School?
Stupid comment
Anonymous
03/13/2017 20:11
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Considering the greater number of FARMS students at Marshall, it would be pretty concerning if Madison didn't have higher college readiness rates.
+1
Much of what's being debated here is about demographics, not school quality.
Perhaps if the IB curriculum appealed to the actual demographic at Marshall, the difference with Madison would be less pronounced.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 20:00
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Considering the greater number of FARMS students at Marshall, it would be pretty concerning if Madison didn't have higher college readiness rates.
+1
Much of what's being debated here is about demographics, not school quality.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 18:31
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are house hunting and hoping to buy in Vienna, feeding into Madison High, but even with a healthy budget of $850k-$900k, none of the homes we are seeing, can we envision as our forever home. So, I have questions about Marshall High School. One person I talked to described it as 'very diverse' and to him that wasn't a good thing. someone else said its 'a lot of military families'. We think diversity is great for our kids, but where we live now, we are the minority, and to be honest, we really don't like it. So, some diversity is great, but not so much we feel like the minority. We are white and Jewish. Will our kids be the only Jewish kids in their classes? Will we like communities feeding into Marshall High? Will we fit in? Thanks for any opinions.
Be patient and you'll find something decent in Vienna zoned for Madison. The spring market is just starting up now.
No knock on Marshall but it is an IB school, so make absolutely sure that is what you want before you consider it as an alternative. We moved out of an IB district, after we realized it did not also offer AP classes and that less than 25% of the students were getting IB diplomas.
25% getting the IB diploma is outstanding. It is very rigorous. To compare with an AP school, what percent are doing 8 APs?
Don't know, but the college readiness statistics for the top AP schools in FCPS like Madison are much higher than those for any of the IB schools, so they must be taking and passing more AP exams. You can tout how rigorous IB is, but something is wrong if over 75% of the kids at an IB school graduate without an IB diploma. At some IB schools, it's more like 95%.
95%? You are delusional. How about a public school example.
There are multiple IB high schools in FCPS where the percentage of graduates receiving IB diplomas was 5% or lower (this was as of a few years ago, as FCPS has since stopped sharing the information, perhaps to avoid scrutiny).
Actually, you can get the IB Diploma numbers from the Virginia Department of Education site. Over the last six years the IB Candidate rate, averaged across the eight FCPS IB schools, has been about 14%. About 11% actually earn the Diploma. This is an average - at some schools it is higher and some schools it is lower. Still, that means about 89% of students at IB school don't get the Diploma and 86% are not trying. IB Diplomas only make up about 3% of all FCPS diplomas granted each year. Given the extra cost for IB and the fact that having IB and AP drives transfers, FCPS would be wise to drop IB. There is no reason to have two advanced academic programs at the high school level (especially in tough budget times).
Anonymous
03/13/2017 17:57
Subject: Re:Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Prestigious colleges are starting to deny credit for AP classes.
https://www.marketplace.org/2013/02/20/education/more-colleges-stop-giving-credit-ap-exams
Prestigious colleges deny both AP and IB credit. They don't think IB and AP classes are of the same caliber as their own, which makes sense. I can't imagine an IB class at Marshall or an AP class at McLean being the same as a class at an IVY. This is a decent summary that either is fine for getting you looked at by colleges, even if you don't get college credit.
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/ap-vs-ib/
Ivy admits from Marshall are few and far between. I've seen senior editions of the Madison and Marshall students newspapers (Hawk Talk and Rank N File) and Madison does much better overall. Because AP is more flexible and scalable, it's harder to put applicants in a bucket analogous to the "non-diploma candidate" bucket at IB schools.
Again, if OP originally wanted Madison, she should not quickly turn to a search in the Marshall district simply because it seems - in early March - the inventory in her price range may be limited. There are good reasons why houses sell more quickly in the Madison district.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 17:48
Subject: Marshall High School?
Considering the greater number of FARMS students at Marshall, it would be pretty concerning if Madison didn't have higher college readiness rates.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 17:29
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are house hunting and hoping to buy in Vienna, feeding into Madison High, but even with a healthy budget of $850k-$900k, none of the homes we are seeing, can we envision as our forever home. So, I have questions about Marshall High School. One person I talked to described it as 'very diverse' and to him that wasn't a good thing. someone else said its 'a lot of military families'. We think diversity is great for our kids, but where we live now, we are the minority, and to be honest, we really don't like it. So, some diversity is great, but not so much we feel like the minority. We are white and Jewish. Will our kids be the only Jewish kids in their classes? Will we like communities feeding into Marshall High? Will we fit in? Thanks for any opinions.
Be patient and you'll find something decent in Vienna zoned for Madison. The spring market is just starting up now.
No knock on Marshall but it is an IB school, so make absolutely sure that is what you want before you consider it as an alternative. We moved out of an IB district, after we realized it did not also offer AP classes and that less than 25% of the students were getting IB diplomas.
25% getting the IB diploma is outstanding. It is very rigorous. To compare with an AP school, what percent are doing 8 APs?
Don't know, but the college readiness statistics for the top AP schools in FCPS like Madison are much higher than those for any of the IB schools, so they must be taking and passing more AP exams. You can tout how rigorous IB is, but something is wrong if over 75% of the kids at an IB school graduate without an IB diploma. At some IB schools, it's more like 95%.
The IB basher is confusing the % that attempt the diploma that get the diploma vs the % of students in the school who get the IB diploma.
95%? You are delusional. How about a public school example.
I'm not confusing anything. If only 10 students in a graduating class of 100 at an IB school attempt an IB diploma, and 7 are successful, I think it's more relevant that 93% of the graduates left empty-handed than that 70% of the handful seeking an IB diploma were successful.
What percentage of students at Madison take 6 AP classes junior year and 6 AP classes senior year (which is the equivalent courseload to an IB diploma student) I'm guessing it's not 25%.
That's a false equivalency, but the percentage of students at Madison taking a demanding course load and gaining admissions to competitive schools is certainly higher than at Marshall (for example, US News reports a College Readiness rate of 75.9% at Madison vs. 61.9% at Marshall).
Anonymous
03/13/2017 15:06
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are house hunting and hoping to buy in Vienna, feeding into Madison High, but even with a healthy budget of $850k-$900k, none of the homes we are seeing, can we envision as our forever home. So, I have questions about Marshall High School. One person I talked to described it as 'very diverse' and to him that wasn't a good thing. someone else said its 'a lot of military families'. We think diversity is great for our kids, but where we live now, we are the minority, and to be honest, we really don't like it. So, some diversity is great, but not so much we feel like the minority. We are white and Jewish. Will our kids be the only Jewish kids in their classes? Will we like communities feeding into Marshall High? Will we fit in? Thanks for any opinions.
Be patient and you'll find something decent in Vienna zoned for Madison. The spring market is just starting up now.
No knock on Marshall but it is an IB school, so make absolutely sure that is what you want before you consider it as an alternative. We moved out of an IB district, after we realized it did not also offer AP classes and that less than 25% of the students were getting IB diplomas.
25% getting the IB diploma is outstanding. It is very rigorous. To compare with an AP school, what percent are doing 8 APs?
Don't know, but the college readiness statistics for the top AP schools in FCPS like Madison are much higher than those for any of the IB schools, so they must be taking and passing more AP exams. You can tout how rigorous IB is, but something is wrong if over 75% of the kids at an IB school graduate without an IB diploma. At some IB schools, it's more like 95%.
The IB basher is confusing the % that attempt the diploma that get the diploma vs the % of students in the school who get the IB diploma.
95%? You are delusional. How about a public school example.
I'm not confusing anything. If only 10 students in a graduating class of 100 at an IB school attempt an IB diploma, and 7 are successful, I think it's more relevant that 93% of the graduates left empty-handed than that 70% of the handful seeking an IB diploma were successful.
What percentage of students at Madison take 6 AP classes junior year and 6 AP classes senior year (which is the equivalent courseload to an IB diploma student) I'm guessing it's not 25%.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 14:17
Subject: Marshall High School?
PP, your an a$$.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 13:11
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or you can buy a home for less in the Falls Church pyramid for 650K and pupil place to Marshall if you want IB. Our daughter attended Pine Spring ES, Luther Jackson MS and now Marshall and has received over $130K in scholarships just for her academics.
Good to hear. We're also in the Pine Spring ES pyramid (kids too young for school yet) and I've heard great things about it from our neighbors. We may or may not stay in our same house through HS, but it's good to know that others have had a positive experience.
Falls Church HS is on an upward trajectory. I just hope it's renovated by the time your kids reach high school!
When you fall so low you have nowhere to go but up
Anonymous
03/13/2017 13:08
Subject: Re:Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Prestigious colleges are starting to deny credit for AP classes.
https://www.marketplace.org/2013/02/20/education/more-colleges-stop-giving-credit-ap-exams
Prestigious colleges deny both AP and IB credit. They don't think IB and AP classes are of the same caliber as their own, which makes sense. I can't imagine an IB class at Marshall or an AP class at McLean being the same as a class at an IVY. This is a decent summary that either is fine for getting you looked at by colleges, even if you don't get college credit.
http://www.collegeconfidential.com/dean/ap-vs-ib/
Ivy admits from Marshall are few and far between. I've seen senior editions of the Madison and Marshall students newspapers (Hawk Talk and Rank N File) and Madison does much better overall. Because AP is more flexible and scalable, it's harder to put applicants in a bucket analogous to the "non-diploma candidate" bucket at IB schools.
Again, if OP originally wanted Madison, she should not quickly turn to a search in the Marshall district simply because it seems - in early March - the inventory in her price range may be limited. There are good reasons why houses sell more quickly in the Madison district.
[/quote
As if Ivy admits says anything about school or teaching quality.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 11:52
Subject: Marshall High School?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Or you can buy a home for less in the Falls Church pyramid for 650K and pupil place to Marshall if you want IB. Our daughter attended Pine Spring ES, Luther Jackson MS and now Marshall and has received over $130K in scholarships just for her academics.
Good to hear. We're also in the Pine Spring ES pyramid (kids too young for school yet) and I've heard great things about it from our neighbors. We may or may not stay in our same house through HS, but it's good to know that others have had a positive experience.
Falls Church HS is on an upward trajectory. I just hope it's renovated by the time your kids reach high school!