OP, serious question - if your kids had zero prospects other than selling drugs or go into prostitution, wouldn't you do everything in your power to move to a better place for your kids?

It's easy for you to say, "I wouldn't break the law", but as you probably have never had to or will have to make such a decision, you really have no idea what you would be capable of if you felt your kids' lives and futures were at stake.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because if I had to raise my kids in a town controlled by cartels and have them witness unspeakable violence or end up joining the cartels for protection, I can't say I too wouldn't strap my shit on my back and try to come over here to bust my ass and give my kids a good safe life. THAT is why I refuse to demonize illegal immigrants.

+1 this

+2 We live in a nice bubble compared to those people.

Bubbles burst.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because if I had to raise my kids in a town controlled by cartels and have them witness unspeakable violence or end up joining the cartels for protection, I can't say I too wouldn't strap my shit on my back and try to come over here to bust my ass and give my kids a good safe life. THAT is why I refuse to demonize illegal immigrants.

+1 this

+2 We live in a nice bubble compared to those people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I figure that nobody with means and options is leaving their home and family and traveling across deserts in the dark, then smushed in the trunk of a car to get across a border so they can then sneak around and wade through shit on chicken farms and work in terrible conditions. But that's just me.

SO WHAT!!! It does not give them the right to come here and stay here illegally. It does not.

There are millions and millions of poor people in third world countries. Look at Haiti, God bless them. How about Milawi, Liberia, etc.. Terrible dire situations. You can be empathetic to all of their situations but it does not mean they can come here illegally. It is breaking the law. If I had no money and robbed a cashier for $500, would you be empathetic to me? How is it any different?

People in most countries who live in dire situations do indeed sneak across a border to a more well off country.

We do get illegal immigrants/refugees from Haiti, just not in the same numbers because, you know, there is a big swath of water between Haiti and the US.

Why do you think there are so many illegal immigrants in Europe from Africa but not so much in the US? Because Europe is closer.

Robbing is a criminal offense; overstaying your visa and the like is a misdemeanor. Two very separate things.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I figure that nobody with means and options is leaving their home and family and traveling across deserts in the dark, then smushed in the trunk of a car to get across a border so they can then sneak around and wade through shit on chicken farms and work in terrible conditions. But that's just me.

SO WHAT!!! It does not give them the right to come here and stay here illegally. It does not.

There are millions and millions of poor people in third world countries. Look at Haiti, God bless them. How about Milawi, Liberia, etc.. Terrible dire situations. You can be empathetic to all of their situations but it does not mean they can come here illegally. It is breaking the law. If I had no money and robbed a cashier for $500, would you be empathetic to me? How is it any different?

NP - I don't think anyone here disagrees that it it is breaking the law. But their is statutory law and moral law. Would I feel empathy for you if you robbed a store - it all depends on the reasons why you did it. What is your background circumstances that pushed you to take such extreme measures? Were you trying to get food and clothing and shelter for your kids? Then yes, if I was on your jury I would give you the lowest form of punishment that was available. If you were a 20 year old wealthy punk who has done this simply for the thrill, then off to jail you would go.

Do you see how circumstances matter? The same holds true in immigration.

I read a quote years ago and I always come back to it on this topic:

"People do not do things to you. They do things for themselves."

They're not coming here to steal your American Dream or that landscaping job you would never deign to work. They're not coming here to gobble up your child's teachers' attention or snatch up those cheap 2 bedroom apartments in which you again would never deign to live.

They are coming here because they have no viable method of survival left in their home country. They can't keep their children safe. They cannot work. Their kids can't get an education. They have no healthcare. You think Mexican immigrants who swim across the river WANT to have to put the lives of their children in the hands of a coyote who may or may not get them to safety? To have them sleep under a desert bush the during the day and then even if they make it here live in constant fear of authority? You think Syrian refugees want to risk their kids' lives on an inflatable raft packed with 200 people or have their kids sleep on the cold ground under a tree in some no mans land between borders?

Seriously, when THAT is your GOOD option, you have my full blessing in doing whatever you can to get your family to safety and security. Be it here or anywhere.

Anonymous wrote:Because if I had to raise my kids in a town controlled by cartels and have them witness unspeakable violence or end up joining the cartels for protection, I can't say I too wouldn't strap my shit on my back and try to come over here to bust my ass and give my kids a good safe life. THAT is why I refuse to demonize illegal immigrants.

+1 this

Anonymous wrote:I figure that nobody with means and options is leaving their home and family and traveling across deserts in the dark, then smushed in the trunk of a car to get across a border so they can then sneak around and wade through shit on chicken farms and work in terrible conditions. But that's just me.

You live in a bubble.

Anonymous wrote:I figure that nobody with means and options is leaving their home and family and traveling across deserts in the dark, then smushed in the trunk of a car to get across a border so they can then sneak around and wade through shit on chicken farms and work in terrible conditions. But that's just me.

SO WHAT!!! It does not give them the right to come here and stay here illegally. It does not.

There are millions and millions of poor people in third world countries. Look at Haiti, God bless them. How about Milawi, Liberia, etc.. Terrible dire situations. You can be empathetic to all of their situations but it does not mean they can come here illegally. It is breaking the law. If I had no money and robbed a cashier for $500, would you be empathetic to me? How is it any different?

Anonymous wrote:If you sneak across our border, you are illegal.

If you overstay your visa, you are illegal.

What part of this do WaPo, CASA, RAZA and illegal apologists not understand?

Being sympathetic to the plight of others is noble. But the US has only limited resources and charity begins at home. We have poor, uneducated inner city blacks, unemployed Appalachian whites and American Indians with desperate health and social needs. Yet, illegals cross our borders and suck up those resources before the American needy get them. Illegals even get faster medical care than veterans.

This is wrong!

And we need to get our priorities in order.

Agree 100%

If you sneak across our border, you are illegal.

If you overstay your visa, you are illegal.

What part of this do WaPo, CASA, RAZA and illegal apologists not understand?

Being sympathetic to the plight of others is noble. But the US has only limited resources and charity begins at home. We have poor, uneducated inner city blacks, unemployed Appalachian whites and American Indians with desperate health and social needs. Yet, illegals cross our borders and suck up those resources before the American needy get them. Illegals even get faster medical care than veterans.

This is wrong!

And we need to get our priorities in order.

Anonymous wrote:I figure that nobody with means and options is leaving their home and family and traveling across deserts in the dark, then smushed in the trunk of a car to get across a border so they can then sneak around and wade through shit on chicken farms and work in terrible conditions. But that's just me.

And pity the fools who read the rules and wait in line.

I figure that nobody with means and options is leaving their home and family and traveling across deserts in the dark, then smushed in the trunk of a car to get across a border so they can then sneak around and wade through shit on chicken farms and work in terrible conditions. But that's just me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bernie/HRC voter here. Child of immigrants. I do wish we had tighter border controls and a more efficient immigration system. But I do not favor harsh or inhumane treatment toward families who already have people here. It's counter productive.

What is inhumane? Sending them back to the country they are legally from? It isn't like we torture them or put them in jail like Mexico does with illegal immigrants. No fines either. We just return them.

I think it is inhumane for immigrants wanting to come in legally to get bumped by those who sneak across and then expect empathy.

You do realize that some of these illegal immigrants will get a bullet to their head if they return to their country, right?
Read about the illegal children coming by themselves - nearly all were witnesses to crimes or had their entire families executed. Have some empathy, FFS. You're American. Does the Statue of Liberty mean nothing to you?

You must be stupid to believe this is the case for all, maybe a handful ffs

PP you are the stupid one. The person said some. I do believe this and know it to be true. Just because you don't know anything about the world doesn't make your perspective true. Go research and come back. You sound dumb.

+1

+2

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, people who defend illegal immigration do not believe (generally speaking of course) in American Exceptionalism. They (usually) believe that all systems of government, all religions, all moral codes, all peoples' histories are "equal" and who are you to judge one as better than another? They do not understand that the immigrants who have made this country great for the past 230 years are those who come here because they want to be like us, to become Americans and to assimilate to our way of life. Rather, they support the idea that anyone from any background can "contribute" to what we have already established, by bringing their own way of being, whether or not it fits our history and core being.

I don't get it either. It's cultural suicide. But that's the way many of these people think. It's a form of self-loathing, I suspect.

BS
Do you know anything about the history of this country? They came to escape poverty and oppression. Their descendants became Americanized.

And every wave of immigration has changed what it means to be "American." It certainly looks nothing like it did 200 years ago.

America is certainly is less white now and there are no slaves or tribes of Native Americans living on their lands.