Anonymous wrote:We CAN afford to care for our veterans.

Anonymous wrote:Funny, but I'm noticing a parallel between this thread and the one on whether low-income people should pay $10 to see a doctor (given that they have been provided free health insurance via great sacrifices from the middle class, who now are struggling themselves to afford medical insurance).

Liberals are arguing that the group that is worse off should be provided for, even if it makes the "better off" group worse off themselves. For example, we need to give illegals a oath to citizenship even though the majority will depend on govt assistance when we can't even afford to care for our veterans....and we should give lower-income all medical care completely free even though it has cost many middle-income people the ability to afford their own health insurance.

And before the bleeding hearts jump on me, I am NOT equating low-income with illegals. It is the philosophy behind it - that the underdog should be elevated even though it harms the group just above them and effectively lowers their standard of living. This, people, is socialism. That the lower get raised and the middle gets lowered until they are both "equal."

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Anonymous wrote:How long do immigrants in this country have to wait until they get their hands on all the goodies - free medical, food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing, and so forth? Its an important question since the majority of them are on government assistance.

HilllRy wants to pave a path so the illegals can become citizens, but of course most of they will eventually require taxpayer-funded support. So if we are to bend the rules, ignore the fact that they broke the rules, and allow them to become citizens, I think it's only fair that we should have a requirement that they must be self-sufficient. I've heard there's a five-year wait for legal immigrants, so we can't reward illegals by giving them the same wait. I'd say....10 years. Thoughts?

Educated, self-sufficient, and law-abiding legal immigrants are always welcome in this country. I am speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

My parents were uneducated, poor legal immigrants, and at times were on food stamps. They have now paid more into the system than they get back. I have also paid waaay more into the system earning six figures a year in the past 10 yrs than I will ever get back; same for my sibling. You are quite ignorant.

Key word

Read what you or the PP wrote, in bolded -- "educated, self sufficient" -- those seem to the only types of immigrants that PP or you want. My point is that a there are lots of uneducated legal immigrants that end up paying more into the system eventually.

We want LEGAL immigrants. Education can come with time. L-E-G-A-L. Controlled immigration. When you flood a nation with tons of uneducated illegal immigrants, you are simply bringing there here. And then here becomes there. Get it?

sure, I get it.. but that's not what that PP or you wrote. Hence my response. Write what you mean, be clear, then we won't have this back/forth, kind of like Trump and how his surrogates are always having to clarify what he meant, though sometimes he refutes what they are trying to clarify.

There will still be back and forth. Because bleeding heart liberals have no problem bringing in refugees and allowing illegals here when we have our own mouths to support and feed, as well as military veterans deserving of care.

Sure, and if people like Trump paid their fair of taxes we'd have more money to pay for their care. Instead, he wants to cut rich people's taxes. How will that help veterans?

I'm not a liberal, but I am a Christian. I've read many times how this country is supposed to be a "christian nation". I don't see much Christian goodwill when people don't want to help the poor. I don't think the Bible has ever stated that we should only help poor citizens of our own country, but not poor foreigners.

With what money, my friend? Should we pile on top of the $20T debt and crash the whole system like Greece, or should we raise taxes on the middle class who are already suffering under unaffordable Obamacare premiums and stagnant wages? Tax the rich won't work.....we could confiscate the entire net worth of the Forbes 400, and it would still leave 90% of the debt untouched.

First of all, can you tell me how much of the debt is caused by illegal immigrants, their net effect on our economy?

Secondly, the rich paying their fair share of taxes would indeed help reduce the deficit, if not at the least prevent it from going higher.

Third, lower class Americans were suffering without ACA. I understand that many middle class were negatively affected by ACA, but there are many who were helped by it.

Do you HONESTLY think that Hollywood will pay their fair share? Nope.

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Anonymous wrote:How long do immigrants in this country have to wait until they get their hands on all the goodies - free medical, food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing, and so forth? Its an important question since the majority of them are on government assistance.

HilllRy wants to pave a path so the illegals can become citizens, but of course most of they will eventually require taxpayer-funded support. So if we are to bend the rules, ignore the fact that they broke the rules, and allow them to become citizens, I think it's only fair that we should have a requirement that they must be self-sufficient. I've heard there's a five-year wait for legal immigrants, so we can't reward illegals by giving them the same wait. I'd say....10 years. Thoughts?

Educated, self-sufficient, and law-abiding legal immigrants are always welcome in this country. I am speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

My parents were uneducated, poor legal immigrants, and at times were on food stamps. They have now paid more into the system than they get back. I have also paid waaay more into the system earning six figures a year in the past 10 yrs than I will ever get back; same for my sibling. You are quite ignorant.

Key word

Read what you or the PP wrote, in bolded -- "educated, self sufficient" -- those seem to the only types of immigrants that PP or you want. My point is that a there are lots of uneducated legal immigrants that end up paying more into the system eventually.

We want LEGAL immigrants. Education can come with time. L-E-G-A-L. Controlled immigration. When you flood a nation with tons of uneducated illegal immigrants, you are simply bringing there here. And then here becomes there. Get it?

sure, I get it.. but that's not what that PP or you wrote. Hence my response. Write what you mean, be clear, then we won't have this back/forth, kind of like Trump and how his surrogates are always having to clarify what he meant, though sometimes he refutes what they are trying to clarify.

There will still be back and forth. Because bleeding heart liberals have no problem bringing in refugees and allowing illegals here when we have our own mouths to support and feed, as well as military veterans deserving of care.

Sure, and if people like Trump paid their fair of taxes we'd have more money to pay for their care. Instead, he wants to cut rich people's taxes. How will that help veterans?

I'm not a liberal, but I am a Christian. I've read many times how this country is supposed to be a "christian nation". I don't see much Christian goodwill when people don't want to help the poor. I don't think the Bible has ever stated that we should only help poor citizens of our own country, but not poor foreigners.

With what money, my friend? Should we pile on top of the $20T debt and crash the whole system like Greece, or should we raise taxes on the middle class who are already suffering under unaffordable Obamacare premiums and stagnant wages? Tax the rich won't work.....we could confiscate the entire net worth of the Forbes 400, and it would still leave 90% of the debt untouched.

First of all, can you tell me how much of the debt is caused by illegal immigrants, their net effect on our economy?

Secondly, the rich paying their fair share of taxes would indeed help reduce the deficit, if not at the least prevent it from going higher.

Third, lower class Americans were suffering without ACA. I understand that many middle class were negatively affected by ACA, but there are many who were helped by it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long do immigrants in this country have to wait until they get their hands on all the goodies - free medical, food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing, and so forth? Its an important question since the majority of them are on government assistance.

HilllRy wants to pave a path so the illegals can become citizens, but of course most of they will eventually require taxpayer-funded support. So if we are to bend the rules, ignore the fact that they broke the rules, and allow them to become citizens, I think it's only fair that we should have a requirement that they must be self-sufficient. I've heard there's a five-year wait for legal immigrants, so we can't reward illegals by giving them the same wait. I'd say....10 years. Thoughts?

Educated, self-sufficient, and law-abiding legal immigrants are always welcome in this country. I am speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

My parents were uneducated, poor legal immigrants, and at times were on food stamps. They have now paid more into the system than they get back. I have also paid waaay more into the system earning six figures a year in the past 10 yrs than I will ever get back; same for my sibling. You are quite ignorant.

Key word

Read what you or the PP wrote, in bolded -- "educated, self sufficient" -- those seem to the only types of immigrants that PP or you want. My point is that a there are lots of uneducated legal immigrants that end up paying more into the system eventually.

We want LEGAL immigrants. Education can come with time. L-E-G-A-L. Controlled immigration. When you flood a nation with tons of uneducated illegal immigrants, you are simply bringing there here. And then here becomes there. Get it?

sure, I get it.. but that's not what that PP or you wrote. Hence my response. Write what you mean, be clear, then we won't have this back/forth, kind of like Trump and how his surrogates are always having to clarify what he meant, though sometimes he refutes what they are trying to clarify.

There will still be back and forth. Because bleeding heart liberals have no problem bringing in refugees and allowing illegals here when we have our own mouths to support and feed, as well as military veterans deserving of care.

Speaking of military veterans, why hasn't the Republican-controlled Congress done more to help veterans? They seem to have no problem going against Obama.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long do immigrants in this country have to wait until they get their hands on all the goodies - free medical, food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing, and so forth? Its an important question since the majority of them are on government assistance.

HilllRy wants to pave a path so the illegals can become citizens, but of course most of they will eventually require taxpayer-funded support. So if we are to bend the rules, ignore the fact that they broke the rules, and allow them to become citizens, I think it's only fair that we should have a requirement that they must be self-sufficient. I've heard there's a five-year wait for legal immigrants, so we can't reward illegals by giving them the same wait. I'd say....10 years. Thoughts?

Educated, self-sufficient, and law-abiding legal immigrants are always welcome in this country. I am speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

My parents were uneducated, poor legal immigrants, and at times were on food stamps. They have now paid more into the system than they get back. I have also paid waaay more into the system earning six figures a year in the past 10 yrs than I will ever get back; same for my sibling. You are quite ignorant.

Key word

Read what you or the PP wrote, in bolded -- "educated, self sufficient" -- those seem to the only types of immigrants that PP or you want. My point is that a there are lots of uneducated legal immigrants that end up paying more into the system eventually.

We want LEGAL immigrants. Education can come with time. L-E-G-A-L. Controlled immigration. When you flood a nation with tons of uneducated illegal immigrants, you are simply bringing there here. And then here becomes there. Get it?

sure, I get it.. but that's not what that PP or you wrote. Hence my response. Write what you mean, be clear, then we won't have this back/forth, kind of like Trump and how his surrogates are always having to clarify what he meant, though sometimes he refutes what they are trying to clarify.

There will still be back and forth. Because bleeding heart liberals have no problem bringing in refugees and allowing illegals here when we have our own mouths to support and feed, as well as military veterans deserving of care.

Sure, and if people like Trump paid their fair of taxes we'd have more money to pay for their care. Instead, he wants to cut rich people's taxes. How will that help veterans?

I'm not a liberal, but I am a Christian. I've read many times how this country is supposed to be a "christian nation". I don't see much Christian goodwill when people don't want to help the poor. I don't think the Bible has ever stated that we should only help poor citizens of our own country, but not poor foreigners.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Undocumented youth get lots of assistance from the government.

It's immediate. Once you're in the school system, services have kicked in - free/reduced meals, medical assistance (especially if the school nurse detects an issue), wrap around services, etc.

Schools have become social programs. People who don't live in areas with low-performing schools don't realize this, however, as the high-flying schools don't usually absorb these new arrivals.

+1 plus special ed services, if needed

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Undocumented youth get lots of assistance from the government.

It's immediate. Once you're in the school system, services have kicked in - free/reduced meals, medical assistance (especially if the school nurse detects an issue), wrap around services, etc.

Schools have become social programs. People who don't live in areas with low-performing schools don't realize this, however, as the high-flying schools don't usually absorb these new arrivals.

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Anonymous wrote:Most of the immigrants who were legalized by Reagan were able to get better jobs and higher incomes. None of them stopped working to get on welfare. Some of them did not become US citizens even though could, preferring to work here and then return to their home countries.

Well maybe they were a higher caliber 30 years ago. And that's not a knock on the illegals alone....our entire electorate is lower in caliber than it was 30 years ago. If we were in the 1980s, there is no way we would be having an election between a narcissistic buffoon and a corrupt liar. These two would have been laughed off the political stage a year ago. But I digress....

This is true. Also there were not as many and many didnt migrate for economic reasons but of civil wars going on in their country. You got many who were affluent and already wealthy. The migrants today are economic migrants and of lower caliber and millions more than when reagan was president.

Disagree. Number of Mexican illegal immigrants have decreased. More and more of the illegal immigrants from MX are now actually coming from C. America, escaping violent crime. As Trump has stated, MX's manufacturing sector is booming. They don't need to come here for illegal jobs anymore. Yes, barely over 50% are from MX, but that has been declining.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

"2 Mexicans made up 52% of all unauthorized immigrants in 2014, though their numbers had been declining in recent years. There were 5.8 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. that year, down from 6.4 million in 2009, according to the new Pew Research Center estimates.


3 The number of unauthorized immigrants from nations other than Mexico grew by 325,000 since 2009, to an estimated 5.3 million in 2014. Populations went up most for unauthorized immigrants from Asia and Central America, but the number also ticked up for those from sub-Saharan Africa. Increases in the number of unauthorized immigrants from other countries mostly offset the decline in the number from Mexico."

No, you are wrong. I am the pp and hispanic as well. I know a lot of immigrants who arrived more than 30 yrs ago and many were not poor. Many of their children and parents also vote republican now (US born hispanics are more likely to vote republican). I knew many who flew over legally from south america, were from well to do families, knew a couple who were going to law school and med school here. The difference is there IS NOT a war going on in central america now where guerrillas went into homes and killed families. The migrants I know from central america are economic migrants with family that lives in el salvador, honduras, guatemala whom they send money over there to. They do try to get their younger boys out of CA because the gangs try to affiliate them. I imagine a lot also went to other central america countries to get away from crime and better opportunity but since it's easier and better economically to come to the US and they already have relatives here why woudln't they risk coming to the US?

I'm not disputing that 30 yrs ago illegal immigrants were coming for purely economic reason, but today, there are less MX illegal immigrants and more from C. America, and while there is no war going on there, there is definitely a lot of violence that is affecting them. This is one of the reasons why we have seen an uptick in minor illegal immigrants coming without their parents.

http://www.cfr.org/transnational-crime/central-americas-violent-northern-triangle/p37286

"Nearly 10 percent of the Northern Triangle countries’ thirty million residents have left, mostly for the United States. In 2013, as many as 2.7 million people born in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras were living in the United States, up from an estimated 1.5 million people in 2000. Nearly one hundred thousand unaccompanied minors arrived to the United States from El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras between October 2013 and July 2015, drawing attention to the region’s broader emigration trend. At the United States' urging, Mexico stepped up enforcement along its southern border, apprehending 70 percent more Central Americans in 2015 than it did in the year before.

Many seek asylum from violence at home: Between 2009 and 2013, the United States registered a sevenfold increase ..in asylum seekers at its southern border, 70 percent of whom came from the Northern Triangle. Neighboring Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Nicaragua, and Panama all registered a similar rise. Migrants from all three Northern Triangle countries cite violence, forced gang recruitment, extortion, as well as poverty and lack of opportunity, as their reasons for leaving"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the immigrants who were legalized by Reagan were able to get better jobs and higher incomes. None of them stopped working to get on welfare. Some of them did not become US citizens even though could, preferring to work here and then return to their home countries.

Well maybe they were a higher caliber 30 years ago. And that's not a knock on the illegals alone....our entire electorate is lower in caliber than it was 30 years ago. If we were in the 1980s, there is no way we would be having an election between a narcissistic buffoon and a corrupt liar. These two would have been laughed off the political stage a year ago. But I digress....

This is true. Also there were not as many and many didnt migrate for economic reasons but of civil wars going on in their country. You got many who were affluent and already wealthy. The migrants today are economic migrants and of lower caliber and millions more than when reagan was president.

Disagree. Number of Mexican illegal immigrants have decreased. More and more of the illegal immigrants from MX are now actually coming from C. America, escaping violent crime. As Trump has stated, MX's manufacturing sector is booming. They don't need to come here for illegal jobs anymore. Yes, barely over 50% are from MX, but that has been declining.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

"2 Mexicans made up 52% of all unauthorized immigrants in 2014, though their numbers had been declining in recent years. There were 5.8 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. that year, down from 6.4 million in 2009, according to the new Pew Research Center estimates.


3 The number of unauthorized immigrants from nations other than Mexico grew by 325,000 since 2009, to an estimated 5.3 million in 2014. Populations went up most for unauthorized immigrants from Asia and Central America, but the number also ticked up for those from sub-Saharan Africa. Increases in the number of unauthorized immigrants from other countries mostly offset the decline in the number from Mexico."

No, you are wrong. I am the pp and hispanic as well. I know a lot of immigrants who arrived more than 30 yrs ago and many were not poor. Many of their children and parents also vote republican now (US born hispanics are more likely to vote republican). I knew many who flew over legally from south america, were from well to do families, knew a couple who were going to law school and med school here. The difference is there IS NOT a war going on in central america now where guerrillas went into homes and killed families. The migrants I know from central america are economic migrants with family that lives in el salvador, honduras, guatemala whom they send money over there to. They do try to get their younger boys out of CA because the gangs try to affiliate them. I imagine a lot also went to other central america countries to get away from crime and better opportunity but since it's easier and better economically to come to the US and they already have relatives here why woudln't they risk coming to the US?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the immigrants who were legalized by Reagan were able to get better jobs and higher incomes. None of them stopped working to get on welfare. Some of them did not become US citizens even though could, preferring to work here and then return to their home countries.

Well maybe they were a higher caliber 30 years ago. And that's not a knock on the illegals alone....our entire electorate is lower in caliber than it was 30 years ago. If we were in the 1980s, there is no way we would be having an election between a narcissistic buffoon and a corrupt liar. These two would have been laughed off the political stage a year ago. But I digress....

This is true. Also there were not as many and many didnt migrate for economic reasons but of civil wars going on in their country. You got many who were affluent and already wealthy. The migrants today are economic migrants and of lower caliber and millions more than when reagan was president.

Disagree. Number of Mexican illegal immigrants have decreased. More and more of the illegal immigrants from MX are now actually coming from C. America, escaping violent crime. As Trump has stated, MX's manufacturing sector is booming. They don't need to come here for illegal jobs anymore. Yes, barely over 50% are from MX, but that has been declining.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/09/20/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

"2 Mexicans made up 52% of all unauthorized immigrants in 2014, though their numbers had been declining in recent years. There were 5.8 million Mexican unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S. that year, down from 6.4 million in 2009, according to the new Pew Research Center estimates.


3 The number of unauthorized immigrants from nations other than Mexico grew by 325,000 since 2009, to an estimated 5.3 million in 2014. Populations went up most for unauthorized immigrants from Asia and Central America, but the number also ticked up for those from sub-Saharan Africa. Increases in the number of unauthorized immigrants from other countries mostly offset the decline in the number from Mexico."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long do immigrants in this country have to wait until they get their hands on all the goodies - free medical, food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing, and so forth? Its an important question since the majority of them are on government assistance.

HilllRy wants to pave a path so the illegals can become citizens, but of course most of they will eventually require taxpayer-funded support. So if we are to bend the rules, ignore the fact that they broke the rules, and allow them to become citizens, I think it's only fair that we should have a requirement that they must be self-sufficient. I've heard there's a five-year wait for legal immigrants, so we can't reward illegals by giving them the same wait. I'd say....10 years. Thoughts?

Educated, self-sufficient, and law-abiding legal immigrants are always welcome in this country. I am speaking of ILLEGAL immigrants.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

My parents were uneducated, poor legal immigrants, and at times were on food stamps. They have now paid more into the system than they get back. I have also paid waaay more into the system earning six figures a year in the past 10 yrs than I will ever get back; same for my sibling. You are quite ignorant.

Key word

Read what you or the PP wrote, in bolded -- "educated, self sufficient" -- those seem to the only types of immigrants that PP or you want. My point is that a there are lots of uneducated legal immigrants that end up paying more into the system eventually.

We want LEGAL immigrants. Education can come with time. L-E-G-A-L. Controlled immigration. When you flood a nation with tons of uneducated illegal immigrants, you are simply bringing there here. And then here becomes there. Get it?

sure, I get it.. but that's not what that PP or you wrote. Hence my response. Write what you mean, be clear, then we won't have this back/forth, kind of like Trump and how his surrogates are always having to clarify what he meant, though sometimes he refutes what they are trying to clarify.

There will still be back and forth. Because bleeding heart liberals have no problem bringing in refugees and allowing illegals here when we have our own mouths to support and feed, as well as military veterans deserving of care.

Sure, and if people like Trump paid their fair of taxes we'd have more money to pay for their care. Instead, he wants to cut rich people's taxes. How will that help veterans?

I'm not a liberal, but I am a Christian. I've read many times how this country is supposed to be a "christian nation". I don't see much Christian goodwill when people don't want to help the poor. I don't think the Bible has ever stated that we should only help poor citizens of our own country, but not poor foreigners.

With what money, my friend? Should we pile on top of the $20T debt and crash the whole system like Greece, or should we raise taxes on the middle class who are already suffering under unaffordable Obamacare premiums and stagnant wages? Tax the rich won't work.....we could confiscate the entire net worth of the Forbes 400, and it would still leave 90% of the debt untouched.

First of all, can you tell me how much of the debt is caused by illegal immigrants, their net effect on our economy?

Secondly, the rich paying their fair share of taxes would indeed help reduce the deficit, if not at the least prevent it from going higher.

Third, lower class Americans were suffering without ACA. I understand that many middle class were negatively affected by ACA, but there are many who were helped by it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How long until brown skinned people are forced to produce citizenship documents in order to buy groceries or walk on a public street?

Please take your racism somewhere else. Thank you.

Bless your heart. You don't even know what that word means.

Not the PP, but I consider racism when you see colors when it's irrelevant to the discussion.

Yeah, irrelevant to you because you're white and privileged.

Again, it has been happening in AZ. It is most certainly relevant to brown people.
Please do the world a favor and educate yourself on the definition of racism.