Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ I never come with oral. I've never liked it, even with guys who are such good lovers I know they are probably great at it (and do it enthusiastically).

Not everything works for everyone.

A good lover listens to the partner's body and goes with what's working.

There are few things worse than a man who thinks what he's doing is the gold standard and pretty much expects you to dig it.

Listens to her body? Like, her vagina is going to tell me "yeah that's good keep doing that"?

It is better for all concerned if she is clear and explicit about what she wants. Yeah yeah, I know, that's not how women, the supposed experts at communication, like to "communicate".

If you don't know the physical signs of arousal and excitement in your lover, you are not going to be good in bed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ I never come with oral. I've never liked it, even with guys who are such good lovers I know they are probably great at it (and do it enthusiastically).

Not everything works for everyone.

A good lover listens to the partner's body and goes with what's working.

There are few things worse than a man who thinks what he's doing is the gold standard and pretty much expects you to dig it.

Yeah, well it's no picnic for the guy who's giving it his best effort based on what he has found precious partners to like and getting the starfish response, either.

Why is that no picnic? Why wouldn't the guy simply ask his current partner what she wants? Why is that hard?

I'm the DH back at 10:34 at the beginning of the thread...

Anonymous wrote:After a long and varied pre-marriage sex life, I've come to a sad conclusion that bad lovers aren't trainable. I mean, you can probably teach them a few tricks and with luck, they will become a little better, but they will never be as good as a naturally good lover. [b]Some <strike>men</strike> people just are very much into exploring and pleasing women, and some are not.[/b] It's like a fine palate or taste for music. If you don't have one naturally, you can become a little better, but never as good as someone who is naturally inclined that way. We all gravitate to things we love, when we do it often, we become better, and it's a self-feeding virtuous circle. This is why good lovers are naturally good.

I very much agree with the bolded but I disagree a bit that this is a matter of having some innate, natural, genetically encoded trait like tastebuds that make up a fine palate. I think the poster who said that good sex is all about trying a variety of things, paying attention to your partner, observing what works for them, and then doing more of that is 100% correct. And that applies to women and men - nobody gets to be lazy or starfish.

I'm sure there are some small number of exceptions to the rule - people who are dancers with two left feet - but far in a way, in my experience (lost count of partners years ago), the terrible sex was almost always the result of one party or the other (or worse, both!) being too inhibited or insecure to risk trying anything, or to being open to seeing if their partner was actually enjoying what they were doing - that is, being open to recognizing that what they were doing to their partner wasn't working. I know this is what made the difference between my best and worst lovers, and I know that I was guilty of it when I was young, and anxious and having those first, furtive encounters.

Generally speaking, this tendency is revealed in the quality of a persons' kissing skills, and as another PP said, it's really a kind of character trait, and reveals something fundamental about their nature.

Finally, to the DW who responded to me: I would LOVE to pick up the rope and tie you up with it - one of the things I'm missing from my earlier days.