Anonymous
09/29/2016 11:10
Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
I feel really betrayed and emotionally abused, because I was the complainer in the relationship. DH knew this, said he was okay with it, was very responsive to my feelings. Move in, married and all of a sudden it felt like he decided he didn't give a f*** about what I thought. That was not the marriage we created, not the one I signed up for. He expected me to change.
Now it seems taking this approach for me personally means I might be able to stay and be happy and not have the devestation of a divorce.
Now it seems taking this approach for me personally means I might be able to stay and be happy and not have the devestation of a divorce.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 11:08
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
This all describes my marriage. My DH definitely has ADD, is a complainer, is the victim in every situation. I used to emotionally respond to all of that, and it was exhausting. For the posters who think this is apathy or emotional detachment, you aren't understanding the process. It's more of Buddhist detachment - where you step back from the situation and observe it without responding to it. What I've discovered is that it not only gives me space to be authentically me, it gives my husband space to be authentically him.
I've worked hard to make sure that negative consequences from my DH's behavior more directly affect him - over time he has started to connect the dots and make changes that he initiates - and those changes are more likely to stick that way. It's sometimes hard to figure out how to do that, you have to get creative and think outside the box - we all affect each other positively and negatively every day - but I have found that the more I can have him deal with his "stuff" the better off we all are.
This is what I know - there's the idealized relationship, and there's the reality that you have. You can spend all your time fighting against the reality, or make the best of it. I see the same choice others here have stated - I could divorce, or I could figure out how to make this work. Obviously, abuse, addiction, adultery or other serious problems tip the scales toward divorce - but until we are dealing with any of those - I think it takes far less effort to make this work and long as we are both are fundamentally have good intentions. My DH is a good person, he works hard, he loves his children, he loves me. I've learned to really see how he expresses those things, and not project my expressions on to him. I care very deeply for him, and we both know that breaking up our family unit would not be best for our children. He would actually suffer the most, which wouldn't be good for our children. I saw the burden he and his sister carried over their father's deterioration after their parent's divorce. Divorce might remove petty annoyances, but give us a whole new batch of problems & logistics to deal with. Our life together is not volatile, and is full of a lot of good - good that I was able to see more clearly when I didn't spend all my time on reacting moment by moment.
I've worked hard to make sure that negative consequences from my DH's behavior more directly affect him - over time he has started to connect the dots and make changes that he initiates - and those changes are more likely to stick that way. It's sometimes hard to figure out how to do that, you have to get creative and think outside the box - we all affect each other positively and negatively every day - but I have found that the more I can have him deal with his "stuff" the better off we all are.
This is what I know - there's the idealized relationship, and there's the reality that you have. You can spend all your time fighting against the reality, or make the best of it. I see the same choice others here have stated - I could divorce, or I could figure out how to make this work. Obviously, abuse, addiction, adultery or other serious problems tip the scales toward divorce - but until we are dealing with any of those - I think it takes far less effort to make this work and long as we are both are fundamentally have good intentions. My DH is a good person, he works hard, he loves his children, he loves me. I've learned to really see how he expresses those things, and not project my expressions on to him. I care very deeply for him, and we both know that breaking up our family unit would not be best for our children. He would actually suffer the most, which wouldn't be good for our children. I saw the burden he and his sister carried over their father's deterioration after their parent's divorce. Divorce might remove petty annoyances, but give us a whole new batch of problems & logistics to deal with. Our life together is not volatile, and is full of a lot of good - good that I was able to see more clearly when I didn't spend all my time on reacting moment by moment.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:56
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Another point. I made it a big priority that we are polite to each other, my husband and I. We have a very, very cordial relationship that I think really flourished when I stopped taking things so seriously and caring so much. I care that he speaks to me politely and if he was a jerk I would point out that if he couldn't talk to a coworker this way, why is it okay for him to speak that way to me. I also walked the walk. I became much, much more pleasant around my husband. I make my points that need to be made and keep it moving. If it's not worth raising, I don't stew over it or -- even unintentionally -- internalize it. I just let the things that don't matter, which is surprisingly a lot, go.
Let's say your husband doesn't call you or spend time with you, but expects sex. How do you not be annoyed that he doesn't facilitate an emotional connection but expects a physical one?
If you enjoy having sex with him, have sex because YOU enjoy it.
But I don't want to, for the reasons above.
Then don't have sex with him.
And make it clear to your husband that if he wants sex, you need "X." No, "X" -- no sex.
I actually don't agree with this advice. I think it's too argumentative. If she wants to say she doesn't feel like having sex because she doesn't feel close to him or she feels like he just comes to her for sex without spending time with her, that's a little softer approach. I think the conversation needs to be had outside the bedroom, not when he shows up for sex.
I hit send too quickly. The whole idea of this thread is that you should not be reacting to what your husband does or doesn't do. It's about controlling your behavior and not caring what he does or doesn't do. Telling him that his action resulted in no nooky for him is reacting to him and giving him the power. Telling him how you feel about having sex is a different matter. Maybe it is about him, but let him ask why.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:53
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Another point. I made it a big priority that we are polite to each other, my husband and I. We have a very, very cordial relationship that I think really flourished when I stopped taking things so seriously and caring so much. I care that he speaks to me politely and if he was a jerk I would point out that if he couldn't talk to a coworker this way, why is it okay for him to speak that way to me. I also walked the walk. I became much, much more pleasant around my husband. I make my points that need to be made and keep it moving. If it's not worth raising, I don't stew over it or -- even unintentionally -- internalize it. I just let the things that don't matter, which is surprisingly a lot, go.
Let's say your husband doesn't call you or spend time with you, but expects sex. How do you not be annoyed that he doesn't facilitate an emotional connection but expects a physical one?
If you enjoy having sex with him, have sex because YOU enjoy it.
But I don't want to, for the reasons above.
Then don't have sex with him.
And make it clear to your husband that if he wants sex, you need "X." No, "X" -- no sex.
I actually don't agree with this advice. I think it's too argumentative. If she wants to say she doesn't feel like having sex because she doesn't feel close to him or she feels like he just comes to her for sex without spending time with her, that's a little softer approach. I think the conversation needs to be had outside the bedroom, not when he shows up for sex.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:51
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
I agree this is a super interesting thread.
So, on some level this is basically what I (and my husband, for that matter) do -- but not from a position of prior conflict or unhappiness. We love each other and get along well and enjoy each other's company. But we're both pretty self sufficient, and we don't particularly depend on each other for our own happiness. If he wants to do something that I don't, or vice versa, no big deal. We spend a lot of time in the same space but doing separate things. We make major decisions jointly, but I don't spend a lot of time seeking his approval and he doesn't seek mine either. We do what makes us happy. For us, the big challenge is making the time/effort to connect with each other, because we're both inclined to drift into our own orbits.
So, on some level this is basically what I (and my husband, for that matter) do -- but not from a position of prior conflict or unhappiness. We love each other and get along well and enjoy each other's company. But we're both pretty self sufficient, and we don't particularly depend on each other for our own happiness. If he wants to do something that I don't, or vice versa, no big deal. We spend a lot of time in the same space but doing separate things. We make major decisions jointly, but I don't spend a lot of time seeking his approval and he doesn't seek mine either. We do what makes us happy. For us, the big challenge is making the time/effort to connect with each other, because we're both inclined to drift into our own orbits.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:48
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Another point. I made it a big priority that we are polite to each other, my husband and I. We have a very, very cordial relationship that I think really flourished when I stopped taking things so seriously and caring so much. I care that he speaks to me politely and if he was a jerk I would point out that if he couldn't talk to a coworker this way, why is it okay for him to speak that way to me. I also walked the walk. I became much, much more pleasant around my husband. I make my points that need to be made and keep it moving. If it's not worth raising, I don't stew over it or -- even unintentionally -- internalize it. I just let the things that don't matter, which is surprisingly a lot, go.
Let's say your husband doesn't call you or spend time with you, but expects sex. How do you not be annoyed that he doesn't facilitate an emotional connection but expects a physical one?
If you enjoy having sex with him, have sex because YOU enjoy it.
But I don't want to, for the reasons above.
Then don't have sex with him.
And make it clear to your husband that if he wants sex, you need "X." No, "X" -- no sex.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:46
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Another point. I made it a big priority that we are polite to each other, my husband and I. We have a very, very cordial relationship that I think really flourished when I stopped taking things so seriously and caring so much. I care that he speaks to me politely and if he was a jerk I would point out that if he couldn't talk to a coworker this way, why is it okay for him to speak that way to me. I also walked the walk. I became much, much more pleasant around my husband. I make my points that need to be made and keep it moving. If it's not worth raising, I don't stew over it or -- even unintentionally -- internalize it. I just let the things that don't matter, which is surprisingly a lot, go.
Let's say your husband doesn't call you or spend time with you, but expects sex. How do you not be annoyed that he doesn't facilitate an emotional connection but expects a physical one?
If you enjoy having sex with him, have sex because YOU enjoy it.
But I don't want to, for the reasons above.
Then don't have sex with him.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:42
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Another point. I made it a big priority that we are polite to each other, my husband and I. We have a very, very cordial relationship that I think really flourished when I stopped taking things so seriously and caring so much. I care that he speaks to me politely and if he was a jerk I would point out that if he couldn't talk to a coworker this way, why is it okay for him to speak that way to me. I also walked the walk. I became much, much more pleasant around my husband. I make my points that need to be made and keep it moving. If it's not worth raising, I don't stew over it or -- even unintentionally -- internalize it. I just let the things that don't matter, which is surprisingly a lot, go.
Let's say your husband doesn't call you or spend time with you, but expects sex. How do you not be annoyed that he doesn't facilitate an emotional connection but expects a physical one?
If you enjoy having sex with him, have sex because YOU enjoy it.
But I don't want to, for the reasons above.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:39
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Another point. I made it a big priority that we are polite to each other, my husband and I. We have a very, very cordial relationship that I think really flourished when I stopped taking things so seriously and caring so much. I care that he speaks to me politely and if he was a jerk I would point out that if he couldn't talk to a coworker this way, why is it okay for him to speak that way to me. I also walked the walk. I became much, much more pleasant around my husband. I make my points that need to be made and keep it moving. If it's not worth raising, I don't stew over it or -- even unintentionally -- internalize it. I just let the things that don't matter, which is surprisingly a lot, go.
Let's say your husband doesn't call you or spend time with you, but expects sex. How do you not be annoyed that he doesn't facilitate an emotional connection but expects a physical one?
If you enjoy having sex with him, have sex because YOU enjoy it.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:27
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
2nd poster again. BTW, I have a child diagnosed with ADHD. After that, I realized I think my DH is undiagnosed ADHD, but won't he doesn't think it. I am now trying to give DH more leeway, the same way I am with my child. I do just assume he didn't hear me, and try not to lose my shht when he completely fails to recall an hour-long we had on a serious topic. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. We need to learn to play to them. I am with the PP on the hiking thing. I am not the sports mom, I am the let's sit and color mom. Dad does sports.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:27
Subject: Re:Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Let me see if this is sinking in. So..I get off work, I exercise, I clean the house, I bathe the kids and do dinner, homework, etc. DH is a lazy POS and hasn't done much of anything but come home from work and veg on the tv or phone. I don't get mad or feel resentful about this because hey, if I want to clean or feed the kids that's my side of the road to worry about, not his? Is the idea that he'll see me happy and not complaining and will eventually join in and help?
The idea is that you are going to clean, give the baths, cook the dinner, supervise the homework anyway -- and now it's done without any hard feelings. Just let go of the expectation of help. If it comes, enjoy it. If it doesn't, no biggie -- you weren't expecting anything. Getting mad every night about this stuff is no way to live.
Pp here. YES. This is exactly the idea my whole family has been rallying to help me reorganize my life around. If we divorce, we will never be this comfortable or provide this kind of life for DD. If I am going to do it alone anyway, I could make us all more comfortable.
Got it. So basically, if I divorce him and become a single mom, I'll be doing this all solo anyway. So if he does do anything at all, it's just a plus.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:18
Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
I want to add that I think the being cordial is really really important. It is hard to sustain anger all the time. And it is just better to assume that your partner really didn't hear you or understand what you meant, than to assume he/she was doing annoying habit #175 just to irritate you. Being nice helps.
My marriage is actually a mess right now, but being cordial on the top layer makes it better for us and the children, and we can delve into our actual issues without unduly hurting each other and exacerbating the problems. It would be so easy to name call and nitpick and be angry.
True story: Husband and I once had a fight in front of a friend. When I apologized later for fighting in front of him the friend admitted he hadn't even realized we were fighting because it was all quite civilized.
My marriage is actually a mess right now, but being cordial on the top layer makes it better for us and the children, and we can delve into our actual issues without unduly hurting each other and exacerbating the problems. It would be so easy to name call and nitpick and be angry.
True story: Husband and I once had a fight in front of a friend. When I apologized later for fighting in front of him the friend admitted he hadn't even realized we were fighting because it was all quite civilized.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:17
Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Okay OP and others, I have one more question about this approach. How do you not get mad at him? Let's say you feel like you do more and he's lazy. How are you able to just let things go and not feel resentful?
I rarely ever get mad like that, I just don't. If he doesn't think mowing the lawn is a priority, I do it when I DO think it is a priority, or pay somebody to do it. But, my DH isn't lazy. If you think of what he does as an extra, a bonus, the side dollop of whipped cream next to your lovely cake of life, well, you get to enjoy that whipped cream. But I don't count on him to do more around the house because I am the one who cares about it. I care if the floors are clean? I wash them. I care if the cars are washed? I wash them. If I care that the children wash their faces before they leave the house? I ask them to wash them. Because if DH doesn't care about it, he just doesn't. And "forcing" him to do it ... not a good strategy.
2nd poster again. You guys really picked up the thread last night while I was doing other stuff.
I do this. I do get mad, and I have tried to really lessen the anger. It doesn't help. I do try to see the best in my husband. He does a lot around the house, and certainly more than my dad ever did. I think he thinks I am lazy, but I do all the back end stuff for the kids, like activities and carpool coordination, etc. I do all the finances. I used to try defend myself when I'd spent hours doing the insurance/flexible spending paperwork on a weekend instead of whatever housework he felt I should be doing. We'll I don't care what he thinks, and the trying to make feel guilty just doesn't work anymore. I am content with what I get done, in the order I have chosen to do them. He has his strengths and desires, and I have mine. He has proven he can't manage a kids activity (he is supposed to be the person who manages my kid getting to soccer). Every saturday, the other moms know I'll be emailing asking where and when the game is b/c DH won't know. Now they just email me and I work the back end to get the kids ready.
p.s. I didn't tell him of my strategy shift. I just clicked into it one day. I need to be more like OP, and stop caring if my DH wants says "yes" to an activity I want to do. I have let him passive aggressively not agree or disagree to a choice to the point the choice is made for me (usually in the negative) by inaction. I need to just start going without him and stop feeling guilty when my friends want me to join them for an outing (without him).
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:15
Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
I do this too. I just realized we are separate people and he's not always going to agree with me, we are going to be cranky, there are going to be phases where we drove each other nuts - and I also came to terms with the fact that often, I didn't agree or approve of the way he does things, but I'm not his parent. I'm not his teacher or his boss. So I stopped taking it all so seriously, viewed the forest and not the trees, and chose to believe that our marriage was more than the sum of our day to day stuff.
Anonymous
09/29/2016 10:12
Subject: Stopping caring saved my marriage
Anonymous wrote:Isn't this basically what men do? Do what they want and ignore the rest? (Have we been this foolish this long?)
Right! This is so enlightening.