Anonymous wrote:There is no point. Sounds like your daughter is smarter than most of the people on this thread.

+1

We all end up dead. But I imagine you don't want to hammer home that point with your kid.

There are happy people and unhappy people of all walks of life. Nothing is guaranteed.

The key to true happiness is letting your kid sit on their ass all day and just, you know, get by, like 90-plus % of parents let their teens do.

Anonymous wrote:
I wonder about the "keep your options open" mantra for a couple of reasons. One is that it can be a means of endlessly deferring gratification and/or articulating a goal.

Why do people act like smart ambitious kids are all miserable? As if every state school slacker is happy go lucky and walks on clouds all day. Give me a break. My daughter's friends are mostly 4.0 kids, super involved, popular, athletes and musicians, full schedules. They're not psycho tiger cubs who are secretly depressed, they're just competitive and get joy from learning, accomplishing goals, making an impact in the community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - not everyone is cut out intellectually and personality-wise for the top ticket. Your DD sounds like someone who simply is not cut out for the elite schools. She'll be happier and will do fine, as others have said, at "Average State U". Not everyone is meant for top tier.

How on earth do you come to this conclusion based on the OP?

This whole thread, much like the Brown/Michigan thread, shows a really ugly side of elite college grads. I went to an elite college and grad school and knew my share of neurotic bitches, but it seems like things have really deteriorated since my day. It's sad that people feel this way, and worse that they are willing to say cruel things about 17-22 year old students. How would you feel if you were the OPs daughter coming across this thread. Or a Michigan student, or a Brown student.

Eh. I went to Michigan and plenty of kids oooked down on Michigan State kids who looked down on Western Michigan kids who looked down on Wayne State kids who looked down on community college kids. People just suck.

There is no point. Sounds like your daughter is smarter than most of the people on this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - not everyone is cut out intellectually and personality-wise for the top ticket. Your DD sounds like someone who simply is not cut out for the elite schools. She'll be happier and will do fine, as others have said, at "Average State U". Not everyone is meant for top tier.

How on earth do you come to this conclusion based on the OP?

This whole thread, much like the Brown/Michigan thread, shows a really ugly side of elite college grads. I went to an elite college and grad school and knew my share of neurotic bitches, but it seems like things have really deteriorated since my day. It's sad that people feel this way, and worse that they are willing to say cruel things about 17-22 year old students. How would you feel if you were the OPs daughter coming across this thread. Or a Michigan student, or a Brown student.

Michigan or Brown or UMD students are smart enough to look around at their friends that graduated from "elite" schools and say, thank god I didn't do that. The people that don't understand that nobody wants to be around "elite" grad are elite grads, low EQ/binders/etc. They think it is of their choosing.

Just went to a wedding, groom (B-level state U) bride (elite U)... OMG, it 's like we had to keep the elite grads away from the rest of the wedding. I was embarrassed for the bride, but I have live in CC so it is nothing new to me. Drinking scotch by the bottle and being misogynistic, not impressive.

Isn't that just as bad as Ivy League grads looking down at public university grads?

At first I thought the Michigan basher was just one annoying poster, but there have been so many posts on these two threads of the same ilk that I think it's more widespread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - not everyone is cut out intellectually and personality-wise for the top ticket. Your DD sounds like someone who simply is not cut out for the elite schools. She'll be happier and will do fine, as others have said, at "Average State U". Not everyone is meant for top tier.

How on earth do you come to this conclusion based on the OP?

This whole thread, much like the Brown/Michigan thread, shows a really ugly side of elite college grads. I went to an elite college and grad school and knew my share of neurotic bitches, but it seems like things have really deteriorated since my day. It's sad that people feel this way, and worse that they are willing to say cruel things about 17-22 year old students. How would you feel if you were the OPs daughter coming across this thread. Or a Michigan student, or a Brown student.

Michigan or Brown or UMD students are smart enough to look around at their friends that graduated from "elite" schools and say, thank god I didn't do that. The people that don't understand that nobody wants to be around "elite" grad are elite grads, low EQ/binders/etc. They think it is of their choosing.

Just went to a wedding, groom (B-level state U) bride (elite U)... OMG, it 's like we had to keep the elite grads away from the rest of the wedding. I was embarrassed for the bride, but I have live in CC so it is nothing new to me. Drinking scotch by the bottle and being misogynistic, not impressive.

I wish that people would stop saying "elite" students. It reinforces the whole rat race thing (status hierarchy) and, beyond that, it's a non-substantive description (vs. capable, ambitious, high-stats, college-bound, or affluent).

Otherwise I agree that why is the right question, now is a good time to be asking it, and part of the answer is what a previous poster said about making your head an interesting place to live.

I wonder about the "keep your options open" mantra for a couple of reasons. One is that it can be a means of endlessly deferring gratification and/or articulating a goal. It risks becoming a formula for permanently begging the "why?" question. The other is that I think it raises the stakes higher that they really are (cf the Brown vs. Michigan thread) in which college choice, status obsession, and risk aversion all unite to keep kids focused on rankings rather than asking what do I want to do and where will I thrive doing that? Then they get out of college and still haven't answered it. And are surprised to discover that doors don't automatically open for them.

Anonymous wrote:OP - not everyone is cut out intellectually and personality-wise for the top ticket. Your DD sounds like someone who simply is not cut out for the elite schools. She'll be happier and will do fine, as others have said, at "Average State U". Not everyone is meant for top tier.

How on earth do you come to this conclusion based on the OP?

This whole thread, much like the Brown/Michigan thread, shows a really ugly side of elite college grads. I went to an elite college and grad school and knew my share of neurotic bitches, but it seems like things have really deteriorated since my day. It's sad that people feel this way, and worse that they are willing to say cruel things about 17-22 year old students. How would you feel if you were the OPs daughter coming across this thread. Or a Michigan student, or a Brown student.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted the Hauerwas article earlier in the thread. ICYMI, Frank Bruni also had a great piece about this general topic in the NYT over the weekend (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/why-college-rankings-are-a-joke.html?). The article has a particular focus on UMBC, a local STEM powerhouse and all-around great school. Money quote here about why college matters:

Freeman Hrabowski, U.M.B.C.’s dynamic president, stressed the school’s determination to “connect students to people different from themselves and lives different from their own.”

Powerhouse, eh? Nearly 1 in 3 kids fails out of UMBC. Versus UMBC, 2x the % of each UMD class applies to medical school. The average upper middle class Beltway family turns down full rides to colleges like UMBC.

did you little brain ever think kids drop out due to finances not failure

Anonymous wrote:I posted the Hauerwas article earlier in the thread. ICYMI, Frank Bruni also had a great piece about this general topic in the NYT over the weekend (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/why-college-rankings-are-a-joke.html?). The article has a particular focus on UMBC, a local STEM powerhouse and all-around great school. Money quote here about why college matters:

Freeman Hrabowski, U.M.B.C.’s dynamic president, stressed the school’s determination to “connect students to people different from themselves and lives different from their own.”

Powerhouse, eh? Nearly 1 in 3 kids fails out of UMBC. Versus UMBC, 2x the % of each UMD class applies to medical school. The average upper middle class Beltway family turns down full rides to colleges like UMBC.

Your daughter is smart, OP. She is asking the critical question "why?" Agree with some other posts here that working hard now can open up options in the future and you should keep your options available when you are young and figuring stuff out. But encourage her self reflection and sit down and talk with her. You guys are doing well on parenting this child - keep it up. Wish that more of our elite students were like her.

I posted the Hauerwas article earlier in the thread. ICYMI, Frank Bruni also had a great piece about this general topic in the NYT over the weekend (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/why-college-rankings-are-a-joke.html?). The article has a particular focus on UMBC, a local STEM powerhouse and all-around great school. Money quote here about why college matters:

Freeman Hrabowski, U.M.B.C.’s dynamic president, stressed the school’s determination to “connect students to people different from themselves and lives different from their own.”

Anonymous wrote:

And if students who go to top schools do get this and are fine with it, I don't want my kids anywhere near them.

Yeah, nobody wants their kid to marry a rich sophisticated and ambitious spouse.

Anonymous wrote:What's the point?

To secure a high-status job in a top tier city, a quality social circle, and a smart & rich spouse who you can produce bright offspring with.

Stepford alert!