Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:48     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.
jsteele
Post 07/15/2016 21:45     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stability and peace in this part of the world is a pretty good deal, and the U.S. government for years has assessed rulers based on how enthusiastically they play ball with the U.S., not on how democratically they came or stayed in power. Exhibit 1: Every country in the Persian Gulf.


Yeah, how has that been working out? That is the hypocrisy of the US. Talk about democracy but support any dictator that will play ball. Then, act shocked when the people in the area reject our so-called "values".

The putschists are shooting civilians in the street. There are posters here actually supporting that in the name of, I don't know what, Ataturk?


Because you are an idiot. And you're right, you don't know what.. Ataturk? Total Apologist you.


Since I'm an idiot, please explain to me why you support shooting civilians in the street? What is the cause that you think justifies that?
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:45     Subject: Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Erdogan is not in Ankara, the capital. The coup is not over, although at this point it might be more accurately descripted as civil unrest or civil war.


He's in Istanbul.


Exacty. Erdogan is in Istanbul, not in the capital city of Ankara, where the military is bombing the parliament building. Erdogan gave a speech, but does not have control of his country, as of now. The coup is not over, yet.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:42     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Stability and peace in this part of the world is a pretty good deal, and the U.S. government for years has assessed rulers based on how enthusiastically they play ball with the U.S., not on how democratically they came or stayed in power. Exhibit 1: Every country in the Persian Gulf.


Yeah, how has that been working out? That is the hypocrisy of the US. Talk about democracy but support any dictator that will play ball. Then, act shocked when the people in the area reject our so-called "values".

The putschists are shooting civilians in the street. There are posters here actually supporting that in the name of, I don't know what, Ataturk?


Because you are an idiot. And you're right, you don't know what.. Ataturk? Total Apologist you.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:41     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just hope that Obama does not f--k this up.

It is for the Turks to decide who they want in control. If Erdogan cannot survive the coup then Obama should work with the new military leaders. If, OTOH, if the coup does not succeed then we should just work with Erdogan.

It is not for us to take sides - we should just stay the hell out of how the Turks decide to resolve the issue. It is not a matter of democracy taking precedence because Erdogan is an Islamist who has been grabbing power increasingly since he came to power.


Obama already picked his side.


Obama only picked a side once it was clear which side would win. Initially, Obama was clearly willing to accept a coup.


Wouldn't Kerry & our military leaders advise Obama on this. You guys make it out like Obama just picks a side on his own with no thought or consulting his cabinet or the Pentagon and just goes with it. Like rock, paper, scissors with Bo.


yeah, that

Yes, of course. Even Kerry is being advised. But, the buck stops in the Oval Office. Here is Kerry's first statement:

"I hope there will be stability and peace and continuity within Turkey, but I have nothing to add on what has transpired at this moment."

Notice the words, "stability and peace and continuity". No mention of support for democracy or Erdogan. He is just saying, "we don't care if there is a coup as long as things don't change for the worse". Then, once is was clear the coup would fail, the tune changed with Obama calling on all Turks to "support the democratically elected government of Turkey."




Yeah, that's us, we don't care. What's funny is Obama and Trump might be neck and neck for isolationism. Will not defend either.
jsteele
Post 07/15/2016 21:40     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:Stability and peace in this part of the world is a pretty good deal, and the U.S. government for years has assessed rulers based on how enthusiastically they play ball with the U.S., not on how democratically they came or stayed in power. Exhibit 1: Every country in the Persian Gulf.


Yeah, how has that been working out? That is the hypocrisy of the US. Talk about democracy but support any dictator that will play ball. Then, act shocked when the people in the area reject our so-called "values".

The putschists are shooting civilians in the street. There are posters here actually supporting that in the name of, I don't know what, Ataturk?
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:39     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just hope that Obama does not f--k this up.

It is for the Turks to decide who they want in control. If Erdogan cannot survive the coup then Obama should work with the new military leaders. If, OTOH, if the coup does not succeed then we should just work with Erdogan.

It is not for us to take sides - we should just stay the hell out of how the Turks decide to resolve the issue. It is not a matter of democracy taking precedence because Erdogan is an Islamist who has been grabbing power increasingly since he came to power.


Obama already picked his side.


Obama only picked a side once it was clear which side would win. Initially, Obama was clearly willing to accept a coup.


So he picks the winning side? Might makes right?

I first saw the Blue Mosque when I was 15. And many subsequent visits. It's the crossroads of Europe and Asia. It's the place where both the west and the east at various times have held the upper hand. Its topography rivals Rome and Jerusalem. Apple tea in the bazaar, quaffing leni rakki,exquisite food, proud men and women, standing in the sweeping squares, walking in the footsteps of Justinian and Theodora, walking the Galata Bridge, traveling to Troy, Pammukale, The Golden Beach. Long live Ataturk.


What does this romantic drivel have to do with anything? Like, you feel compelled to offer an opinion about Turkish politics because you had this totally awesome piece of baklava thirty years ago?


No because a part of me grew up there. And I know what Erdogan is doing is BS, destroying a beautiful place and people, just like VZ. And thank god for romantic drivel--it probably motivated a few people to do the right thing. Maybe the military in Turkey now who love the history and sense of place of their homeland.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:39     Subject: Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:Erdogan is not in Ankara, the capital. The coup is not over, although at this point it might be more accurately descripted as civil unrest or civil war.


He's in Istanbul.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:37     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just hope that Obama does not f--k this up.

It is for the Turks to decide who they want in control. If Erdogan cannot survive the coup then Obama should work with the new military leaders. If, OTOH, if the coup does not succeed then we should just work with Erdogan.

It is not for us to take sides - we should just stay the hell out of how the Turks decide to resolve the issue. It is not a matter of democracy taking precedence because Erdogan is an Islamist who has been grabbing power increasingly since he came to power.


Obama already picked his side.


Obama only picked a side once it was clear which side would win. Initially, Obama was clearly willing to accept a coup.


Wouldn't Kerry & our military leaders advise Obama on this. You guys make it out like Obama just picks a side on his own with no thought or consulting his cabinet or the Pentagon and just goes with it. Like rock, paper, scissors with Bo.


Yes, of course. Even Kerry is being advised. But, the buck stops in the Oval Office. Here is Kerry's first statement:

"I hope there will be stability and peace and continuity within Turkey, but I have nothing to add on what has transpired at this moment."

Notice the words, "stability and peace and continuity". No mention of support for democracy or Erdogan. He is just saying, "we don't care if there is a coup as long as things don't change for the worse". Then, once is was clear the coup would fail, the tune changed with Obama calling on all Turks to "support the democratically elected government of Turkey."



Stability and peace in this part of the world is a pretty good deal, and the U.S. government for years has assessed rulers based on how enthusiastically they play ball with the U.S., not on how democratically they came or stayed in power. Exhibit 1: Every country in the Persian Gulf.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:35     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:Ergodan is insane.

"Erdogan says this attempt is a gift from God... Because it gives him opportunity to cleanse the Army. He says this live".

He started out semi normal but is obviously anti freedom of speech, anti journalist, anti woman, and pretty crazy.


Of course he is. Was all chest-thumpy after shooting down a Russian plane until the hospitality and food industry began to weep tears of blood. Then it was like, Oh, My Brother Vladimir, I Pray for Your Forgiveness at Your Knobby Knees. So happy the family of the killed pilot told him to go fuck himself when he offered money.
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:33     Subject: Coup attempt in Turkey
Erdogan is not in Ankara, the capital. The coup is not over, although at this point it might be more accurately descripted as civil unrest or civil war.
jsteele
Post 07/15/2016 21:33     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just hope that Obama does not f--k this up.

It is for the Turks to decide who they want in control. If Erdogan cannot survive the coup then Obama should work with the new military leaders. If, OTOH, if the coup does not succeed then we should just work with Erdogan.

It is not for us to take sides - we should just stay the hell out of how the Turks decide to resolve the issue. It is not a matter of democracy taking precedence because Erdogan is an Islamist who has been grabbing power increasingly since he came to power.


Obama already picked his side.


Obama only picked a side once it was clear which side would win. Initially, Obama was clearly willing to accept a coup.


Wouldn't Kerry & our military leaders advise Obama on this. You guys make it out like Obama just picks a side on his own with no thought or consulting his cabinet or the Pentagon and just goes with it. Like rock, paper, scissors with Bo.


Yes, of course. Even Kerry is being advised. But, the buck stops in the Oval Office. Here is Kerry's first statement:

"I hope there will be stability and peace and continuity within Turkey, but I have nothing to add on what has transpired at this moment."

Notice the words, "stability and peace and continuity". No mention of support for democracy or Erdogan. He is just saying, "we don't care if there is a coup as long as things don't change for the worse". Then, once is was clear the coup would fail, the tune changed with Obama calling on all Turks to "support the democratically elected government of Turkey."


Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:32     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just hope that Obama does not f--k this up.

It is for the Turks to decide who they want in control. If Erdogan cannot survive the coup then Obama should work with the new military leaders. If, OTOH, if the coup does not succeed then we should just work with Erdogan.

It is not for us to take sides - we should just stay the hell out of how the Turks decide to resolve the issue. It is not a matter of democracy taking precedence because Erdogan is an Islamist who has been grabbing power increasingly since he came to power.


Obama already picked his side.


Obama only picked a side once it was clear which side would win. Initially, Obama was clearly willing to accept a coup.


So he picks the winning side? Might makes right?

I first saw the Blue Mosque when I was 15. And many subsequent visits. It's the crossroads of Europe and Asia. It's the place where both the west and the east at various times have held the upper hand. Its topography rivals Rome and Jerusalem. Apple tea in the bazaar, quaffing leni rakki,exquisite food, proud men and women, standing in the sweeping squares, walking in the footsteps of Justinian and Theodora, walking the Galata Bridge, traveling to Troy, Pammukale, The Golden Beach. Long live Ataturk.


What does this romantic drivel have to do with anything? Like, you feel compelled to offer an opinion about Turkish politics because you had this totally awesome piece of baklava thirty years ago?
Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:30     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
Ergodan is insane.

"Erdogan says this attempt is a gift from God... Because it gives him opportunity to cleanse the Army. He says this live".

He started out semi normal but is obviously anti freedom of speech, anti journalist, anti woman, and pretty crazy.

Anonymous
Post 07/15/2016 21:30     Subject: Re:Coup attempt in Turkey
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I just hope that Obama does not f--k this up.

It is for the Turks to decide who they want in control. If Erdogan cannot survive the coup then Obama should work with the new military leaders. If, OTOH, if the coup does not succeed then we should just work with Erdogan.

It is not for us to take sides - we should just stay the hell out of how the Turks decide to resolve the issue. It is not a matter of democracy taking precedence because Erdogan is an Islamist who has been grabbing power increasingly since he came to power.


Obama already picked his side.


Obama only picked a side once it was clear which side would win. Initially, Obama was clearly willing to accept a coup.


So he picks the winning side? Might makes right?

I first saw the Blue Mosque when I was 15. And many subsequent visits. It's the crossroads of Europe and Asia. It's the place where both the west and the east at various times have held the upper hand. Its topography rivals Rome and Jerusalem. Apple tea in the bazaar, quaffing leni rakki,exquisite food, proud men and women, standing in the sweeping squares, walking in the footsteps of Justinian and Theodora, walking the Galata Bridge, traveling to Troy, Pammukale, The Golden Beach. Long live Ataturk.