Anonymous
Post 05/10/2016 11:29     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Doesn't mean he isn't ready for college. It's normal.
Anonymous
Post 05/10/2016 11:23     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:But PPs make it sound like it's impossible for any kid to manage it themselves these days. I don't buy it.

You were able to figure out how you'd finance the cost of a $240,000 education by yourself at 17? That's really impressive, but very unusual.


Obviously tuition wasn't that much back then (approx $20/yr). But I did the legwork to find and apply to various scholarships/grants (counselor helped me with leads). I ended up with federal grants and loans beyond the scholarships and my parent's contribution. It broke down to approx 1/3 parents, 1/3 scholarships/grants, 1/3 loans. And I got 80% of grad school covered by grants (primarily one corporate grant). Took me 10 years to pay off the loans. I also worked over summers and during the school year for spending money.

Anyway, that just one aspect of college planning/applications.

If you never give your kid the chance to even TRY to manage it then you'll never know if they are capable.
Anonymous
Post 05/10/2016 11:05     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.



Do you have any teenagers?

My senior in high school manages all his homework without input from me and has for many years. He has a volunteer gig 2 days per week that he manages all on his own, including travel to and from via city bus. He won the "volunteer of the year" award from this organization last year. He has a job two days a week that he also manages on his own, including travel to and from via bike. He is involved with a few student clubs. With all these obligations, he manages his own calendar, no input from me whatsoever. He has a 3.8 UW/4.1 W GPA, excellent references from teachers and bosses. He wrote his college essays on his own, with minimal input from others, and easily met deadlines during the process, including submitting some applications early. He was accepted everywhere he applied and award substantial merit aid at several schools.

But fall of his junior year, he was completely flummoxed by the college process, had no idea what he wanted in a school, what he should want in a school, or how to tell whether schools had what he wanted even if he did know. Even when he began to articulate what he thought he wanted, he had no idea how to rank order those desires. Was it more important to be in an urban area or to be at a small school? Etc. I am a PP who took charge of the process by doing my own thinking about what I thought he would want, identifying schools that offered those things, and drawing up a list of about 30 schools, and then talking to him about why I thought they were good options for him, taking him to visiting some, helping to refine the list, etc. His need for direction, and my involvement in the process, said/says absolutely nothing about his interest in college, his readiness for it, or his ability to handle his own affairs.


I wonder if you considered helping your son "take charge of the process", rather than doing so yourself. Once he started to -- in your words -- "articulate what he thought he wanted," you might have taken that opportunity to coach him along, rather than taking over and making a list yourself. By asking him questions -- and not supplying the answers -- you might have helped him take the lead in shaping his own destiny. And you might have learned that he was capable of doing this himself. As a teacher and parent of teens and young adults, I've found that they know themselves much better than we give them credit for.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 20:49     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Every child is different. And they are all maturing at different rates. Some 16 year olds are incredibly focused and mature, and others need constant hand-holding. Most are somewhere in the middle, and changing all the time.

Cost is such a huge factor, especially in this area where many people with a reasonable lifestyle have too much money to be offered financial aid, but not enough to pay the $60K price of private colleges or OOS publics.

We're in that boat, and we've had to be very clear with our kids about what we can afford. They still don't get it, though. DC#1 went to her last choice college because of cost. She didn't get enough merit money from the colleges she wanted to attend. With DC#2, we've limited the colleges he can apply to to ones we can afford.

We will not allow our children to take out more than $5k in loans per year, which rules out all private colleges, even those that offer merit aid. It's crazy to let your children take out $20K per year, absolute insanity. No college, HYP included, is worth that much debt.

Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 18:08     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Of course this is overwhelming. Even an application to a state school is 1000x more difficult than 25-30 years ago when I was in school. In my state, you filled out a 2-3 page application, mailed it in and showed up on move-in day. It is so different now and these kids feel so much more pressure from us/society/school to have more of an idea of what career they want to pursue due to the insanely high cost of higher ed these days.

It's very sad and honestly, I can see why parents want more of a say in it all since we are still on the line for all the loans our kids take out. Nevertheless if a child is completely shut down over it then pros and cons of all options should be discussed.

As parents, DH and I hate to see our kids rush off to high loans etc if they are not really committed and ready to attend college, at whatever that age is. They will have to contribute if they are at home during any gap time. One kid has already said a gap year is in order. This DK has a plan and is one of the youngest in the grade so it makes sense. However, our stipulation is that at least a few college applications are submitted next year which is senior year so a deferral can be made.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 16:33     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:But PPs make it sound like it's impossible for any kid to manage it themselves these days. I don't buy it.

You were able to figure out how you'd finance the cost of a $240,000 education by yourself at 17? That's really impressive, but very unusual.


No kidding. It's simply not the same now, the cost of college is so much more than it was 25+ years ago. When I graduated from college, I had student loan debt of $7500. That amount of money was just about equal to year's tuition plus room and board. (My parents and financial aid covered the other 3 years.) That same college now costs more than $50k per year now. Teenagers cannot borrow that much money. Stafford loans are limited to $5500 for freshman year. If you want to borrow more than that, you need a cosigner. Good luck finding the additional $45k without your parents' involvement. Winning a $1000 scholarship here and there is not going to cut it. And if I'm spending $45k PER YEAR on college, you better believe I have some opinions on how and where it is spent.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 13:56     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:But PPs make it sound like it's impossible for any kid to manage it themselves these days. I don't buy it.

You were able to figure out how you'd finance the cost of a $240,000 education by yourself at 17? That's really impressive, but very unusual.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 12:17     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
But PPs make it sound like it's impossible for any kid to manage it themselves these days. I don't buy it.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 12:15     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.



Do you have any teenagers?

My senior in high school manages all his homework without input from me and has for many years. He has a volunteer gig 2 days per week that he manages all on his own, including travel to and from via city bus. He won the "volunteer of the year" award from this organization last year. He has a job two days a week that he also manages on his own, including travel to and from via bike. He is involved with a few student clubs. With all these obligations, he manages his own calendar, no input from me whatsoever. He has a 3.8 UW/4.1 W GPA, excellent references from teachers and bosses. He wrote his college essays on his own, with minimal input from others, and easily met deadlines during the process, including submitting some applications early. He was accepted everywhere he applied and award substantial merit aid at several schools.

But fall of his junior year, he was completely flummoxed by the college process, had no idea what he wanted in a school, what he should want in a school, or how to tell whether schools had what he wanted even if he did know. Even when he began to articulate what he thought he wanted, he had no idea how to rank order those desires. Was it more important to be in an urban area or to be at a small school? Etc. I am a PP who took charge of the process by doing my own thinking about what I thought he would want, identifying schools that offered those things, and drawing up a list of about 30 schools, and then talking to him about why I thought they were good options for him, taking him to visiting some, helping to refine the list, etc. His need for direction, and my involvement in the process, said/says absolutely nothing about his interest in college, his readiness for it, or his ability to handle his own affairs.


Involvement of parents is actually critical when price is an issue. I couldn't turn my kid loose with the college guides because most of the schools in there were not affordable for us without merit aid. So it was crucial to figure out (a) which schools offer significant merit aid and (b) which of those typically offer it to kids with stats similar to DC's. That information is not included in most college guides/search engines and required substantial legwork to uncover and not an insignificant amount of savvy to interpret.



Wow - are kids that incapable these days? Not only did I do my own college search (pre Internet days) but I also figured out how to pay for it - finding scholarships, grants, loans, etc. My parents helped fill out some forms and my HS counselor was a great resource, but otherwise I did all of the legwork myself. Ended up at a top 20 school.



Well bully for you! Not all kids are ready to handle navigating the college search on their own at 16-17 for whatever reasons. That hardly means they're incapable. It's a good bet most have other strengths or capabilities that you lacked at that age. I've had one who took charge and another who is floundering, so I've come to understand it's a very individual process. My most successful brother, a tech executive who started out at a community college, told me he was completely freaked out and had no idea where he wanted to go or what he wanted to do in college. Knowing what he does now, he probably wouldn't even choose the 4-year college he ultimately attended. But somehow through perseverance, hard work and simply growing up, he's done extremely well for himself.

It's worth remembering that everyone is different and there's no one path to success.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 11:44     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.



Do you have any teenagers?

My senior in high school manages all his homework without input from me and has for many years. He has a volunteer gig 2 days per week that he manages all on his own, including travel to and from via city bus. He won the "volunteer of the year" award from this organization last year. He has a job two days a week that he also manages on his own, including travel to and from via bike. He is involved with a few student clubs. With all these obligations, he manages his own calendar, no input from me whatsoever. He has a 3.8 UW/4.1 W GPA, excellent references from teachers and bosses. He wrote his college essays on his own, with minimal input from others, and easily met deadlines during the process, including submitting some applications early. He was accepted everywhere he applied and award substantial merit aid at several schools.

But fall of his junior year, he was completely flummoxed by the college process, had no idea what he wanted in a school, what he should want in a school, or how to tell whether schools had what he wanted even if he did know. Even when he began to articulate what he thought he wanted, he had no idea how to rank order those desires. Was it more important to be in an urban area or to be at a small school? Etc. I am a PP who took charge of the process by doing my own thinking about what I thought he would want, identifying schools that offered those things, and drawing up a list of about 30 schools, and then talking to him about why I thought they were good options for him, taking him to visiting some, helping to refine the list, etc. His need for direction, and my involvement in the process, said/says absolutely nothing about his interest in college, his readiness for it, or his ability to handle his own affairs.


Involvement of parents is actually critical when price is an issue. I couldn't turn my kid loose with the college guides because most of the schools in there were not affordable for us without merit aid. So it was crucial to figure out (a) which schools offer significant merit aid and (b) which of those typically offer it to kids with stats similar to DC's. That information is not included in most college guides/search engines and required substantial legwork to uncover and not an insignificant amount of savvy to interpret.



Wow - are kids that incapable these days? Not only did I do my own college search (pre Internet days) but I also figured out how to pay for it - finding scholarships, grants, loans, etc. My parents helped fill out some forms and my HS counselor was a great resource, but otherwise I did all of the legwork myself. Ended up at a top 20 school.

Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 11:32     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.



Do you have any teenagers?

My senior in high school manages all his homework without input from me and has for many years. He has a volunteer gig 2 days per week that he manages all on his own, including travel to and from via city bus. He won the "volunteer of the year" award from this organization last year. He has a job two days a week that he also manages on his own, including travel to and from via bike. He is involved with a few student clubs. With all these obligations, he manages his own calendar, no input from me whatsoever. He has a 3.8 UW/4.1 W GPA, excellent references from teachers and bosses. He wrote his college essays on his own, with minimal input from others, and easily met deadlines during the process, including submitting some applications early. He was accepted everywhere he applied and award substantial merit aid at several schools.

But fall of his junior year, he was completely flummoxed by the college process, had no idea what he wanted in a school, what he should want in a school, or how to tell whether schools had what he wanted even if he did know. Even when he began to articulate what he thought he wanted, he had no idea how to rank order those desires. Was it more important to be in an urban area or to be at a small school? Etc. I am a PP who took charge of the process by doing my own thinking about what I thought he would want, identifying schools that offered those things, and drawing up a list of about 30 schools, and then talking to him about why I thought they were good options for him, taking him to visiting some, helping to refine the list, etc. His need for direction, and my involvement in the process, said/says absolutely nothing about his interest in college, his readiness for it, or his ability to handle his own affairs.


Involvement of parents is actually critical when price is an issue. I couldn't turn my kid loose with the college guides because most of the schools in there were not affordable for us without merit aid. So it was crucial to figure out (a) which schools offer significant merit aid and (b) which of those typically offer it to kids with stats similar to DC's. That information is not included in most college guides/search engines and required substantial legwork to uncover and not an insignificant amount of savvy to interpret.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 11:20     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.



Do you have any teenagers?

My senior in high school manages all his homework without input from me and has for many years. He has a volunteer gig 2 days per week that he manages all on his own, including travel to and from via city bus. He won the "volunteer of the year" award from this organization last year. He has a job two days a week that he also manages on his own, including travel to and from via bike. He is involved with a few student clubs. With all these obligations, he manages his own calendar, no input from me whatsoever. He has a 3.8 UW/4.1 W GPA, excellent references from teachers and bosses. He wrote his college essays on his own, with minimal input from others, and easily met deadlines during the process, including submitting some applications early. He was accepted everywhere he applied and award substantial merit aid at several schools.

But fall of his junior year, he was completely flummoxed by the college process, had no idea what he wanted in a school, what he should want in a school, or how to tell whether schools had what he wanted even if he did know. Even when he began to articulate what he thought he wanted, he had no idea how to rank order those desires. Was it more important to be in an urban area or to be at a small school? Etc. I am a PP who took charge of the process by doing my own thinking about what I thought he would want, identifying schools that offered those things, and drawing up a list of about 30 schools, and then talking to him about why I thought they were good options for him, taking him to visiting some, helping to refine the list, etc. His need for direction, and my involvement in the process, said/says absolutely nothing about his interest in college, his readiness for it, or his ability to handle his own affairs.
Anonymous
Post 05/09/2016 08:49     Subject: Re:11th grade son won't discuss college
"if parents are this involved with the process,"

While many of you know this, it bears repeating.

The problem is not so much parents being involved with the process.

The goal is to get your kids to be the generals in charge of their processes.

This DOES NOT start in their junior year and/or looking at colleges.

They also need to have a big say all through HS so they learn how.
Anonymous
Post 05/07/2016 09:34     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You all are insane. If you have to do this much prep work FOR your kids for them to even think about applying for college, then are you going to be prepared to write their term papers too? Sign them up for their classes? My god, if they can't take the initiative to get the process started on their own, then you tell them that starting in September after graduation, rent will be $750 a month and they will be expected to chip in for food, gas, car insurance etc.

No wonder we have so much support for Trump. Insane.



I think the current college application process is what's insane. In pre-ranking days when kids were only applying to a few colleges, things were more manageable for everyone. Today, kids who apply to less than 10 feel like they still might not get in. The pressure to have top stats, know what you want to study and go to a name college or your life will be over is unrelenting. That's overwhelming to me as an adult. I can't imagine what it feels like to an 18-year-old.


It is true that is it different than it was in the 50's, 70's and 80's, but the fact remains, if parents are this involved with the process, it doesn't bode will for the motivation and independence/ownership of the student. We are the helicopter generation, and need to learn when to step WAY back.

Anonymous
Post 05/06/2016 13:20     Subject: 11th grade son won't discuss college
If he remains this ambivalent in the months ahead, it is a very very strong indicator that a gap year might be beneficial. Rather than force a kid to go to school against his will - not a recipe for success - let him take a year off, and chances are he will be clamoring to go to school before it's half over.