OP - how do you explain honor killings?

Anonymous wrote:Eastern cultures tend to respect their elders. Western cultures can't wait for their elders to die off. Not to say I endorse the MIL abuse, but the complete lack of respect this culture condones saddens me. Most of these women are mothers. They will be discarded as readily as their mothers were.

Respect is earned, not given.

Anonymous wrote:Eastern cultures tend to respect their elders. Western cultures can't wait for their elders to die off. Not to say I endorse the MIL abuse, but the complete lack of respect this culture condones saddens me. Most of these women are mothers. They will be discarded as readily as their mothers were.

LOL. Hit a nerve, did we?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its a very different reality when you are the woman and the actual caregiver. Those who preach are not dealing with a relative with dementia who cannot feed, bath or care for themselves let alone be home alone. Its far harder care than a newborn. You cannot even compare the level of care needed. I did it and couldn't do it anymore.

+ in India life expectancy is shorter and old people die of other causes before dementia sets in.

Not the Indian people I know. Unlike most Westerners, they don't smoke, drink little or not at all, and eat diets of mostly vegetables. They live easily into their 80's and beyond.

Average life expectancies:

United States- 79

India- 66

Ok thats great but since DCUM is not based in India, I'm assuming most of the Indians on this board are Indian-Americans, not Indians who are living in India. I have no doubt that given the extreme poverty throughout India, that the average life expectancy there is much lower than in the US.

If you consider the population of India and facilities vs that of the US, that's a pretty good number!

Eastern cultures tend to respect their elders. Western cultures can't wait for their elders to die off. Not to say I endorse the MIL abuse, but the complete lack of respect this culture condones saddens me. Most of these women are mothers. They will be discarded as readily as their mothers were.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Korean adoptee. When I reunited with my birth family (mother and brothers- father is long dead), I found out that my own father and his mother basically stole me from my b-mom. Yes. They told her that my twin sister and I had died during delivery, that the hospital had already cremated us, and they took us to the adoption agency instead. When I basically said that this was quite an unbelievable story/thing to do to one's own wife, my b-family told us that our mother and her MIL (my dad's mom) did not get along. B-grandma used to beat our mother and another DIL and drag them around the house by their hair. I asked why our b-father allowed this and they said he was very loyal to his mother. Many a Korean has told me that it was very common for MILs and DILs to hate each other.

Now, I'm ok with having been adopted. But this is some f-ed up shit in terms of Asian family values. All of it.

Stick around, you'll that American MILs and DILs are exactly the same. Well, they don't drag each other around or steal babies, because there are laws against it, and they are enforced. But the rest is very similar

PP here. I myself am not a fan of my own MIL

I think Korean issues go beyond the typical MIL/DIL issues that you'll find here in the US. That's because it was very common for the mother to live with the oldest son and his family. I know there are multi-generation households here in the US, but I would not say it's the norm as it was/is in Korea. In fact, my b-mom lives with my oldest bro and you should have seen the way she bossed around his wife, who jumped to do b-mom's every bidding.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Korean adoptee. When I reunited with my birth family (mother and brothers- father is long dead), I found out that my own father and his mother basically stole me from my b-mom. Yes. They told her that my twin sister and I had died during delivery, that the hospital had already cremated us, and they took us to the adoption agency instead. When I basically said that this was quite an unbelievable story/thing to do to one's own wife, my b-family told us that our mother and her MIL (my dad's mom) did not get along. B-grandma used to beat our mother and another DIL and drag them around the house by their hair. I asked why our b-father allowed this and they said he was very loyal to his mother. Many a Korean has told me that it was very common for MILs and DILs to hate each other.

Now, I'm ok with having been adopted. But this is some f-ed up shit in terms of Asian family values. All of it.

Stick around, you'll that American MILs and DILs are exactly the same. Well, they don't drag each other around or steal babies, because there are laws against it, and they are enforced. But the rest is very similar

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Korean adoptee. When I reunited with my birth family (mother and brothers- father is long dead), I found out that my own father and his mother basically stole me from my b-mom. Yes. They told her that my twin sister and I had died during delivery, that the hospital had already cremated us, and they took us to the adoption agency instead. When I basically said that this was quite an unbelievable story/thing to do to one's own wife, my b-family told us that our mother and her MIL (my dad's mom) did not get along. B-grandma used to beat our mother and another DIL and drag them around the house by their hair. I asked why our b-father allowed this and they said he was very loyal to his mother. Many a Korean has told me that it was very common for MILs and DILs to hate each other.

Now, I'm ok with having been adopted. But this is some f-ed up shit in terms of Asian family values. All of it.

Awful. So glad your mother was finally reunited with you.

to allow not to depend etc.

OP, it is really simple, and I wonder why you would pretend not to understand.

In most developed countries people don't need each other to survive. There is enough of social safety net to allow parents depend on adult children etc. This led to deterioration of family as a whole. People don't need it. There's day care and old folks homes. I imagine most of Southeast Asia is different, with no services readily available to residents. Therefore, people must cultivate family ties--their physical survival may depend on them one day.

I come from a different culture and see a lot of this among friendships. Americans are just not good at making and keeping friends. Because they don't need them. People in different part absolutely need to social aspect to survive and thrive. Thus develops their culture and attitudes.

Having said that, I admire American individualism. I wonder why it often has to come with such vitriol towards extended family, but as a concept, it's pretty great.

Anonymous wrote:I'm a Korean adoptee. When I reunited with my birth family (mother and brothers- father is long dead), I found out that my own father and his mother basically stole me from my b-mom. Yes. They told her that my twin sister and I had died during delivery, that the hospital had already cremated us, and they took us to the adoption agency instead. When I basically said that this was quite an unbelievable story/thing to do to one's own wife, my b-family told us that our mother and her MIL (my dad's mom) did not get along. B-grandma used to beat our mother and another DIL and drag them around the house by their hair. I asked why our b-father allowed this and they said he was very loyal to his mother. Many a Korean has told me that it was very common for MILs and DILs to hate each other.

Now, I'm ok with having been adopted. But this is some f-ed up shit in terms of Asian family values. All of it.

My Korean friend adopted a child from Korea and her parents not only don't love him as a grandson, they don't even look at him when he's in the room. They treat him like he's invisible. So yeah, f-d up shit indeed.

Which is not to say that all Koreans are that way. Just dispelling the OP's prejudices.

Whatever. My closest 2 South Asian friends have extremely emotionally abusive parents, hidden addictions in the family, one son who was completely cut off for being gay, both were physically abused as kids, etc. One adopted a child and neither of her parents will acknowledge him as a grandson because he is not their blood.

So, jerks are in every culture. F'd up families are in every culture.

I'm a Korean adoptee. When I reunited with my birth family (mother and brothers- father is long dead), I found out that my own father and his mother basically stole me from my b-mom. Yes. They told her that my twin sister and I had died during delivery, that the hospital had already cremated us, and they took us to the adoption agency instead. When I basically said that this was quite an unbelievable story/thing to do to one's own wife, my b-family told us that our mother and her MIL (my dad's mom) did not get along. B-grandma used to beat our mother and another DIL and drag them around the house by their hair. I asked why our b-father allowed this and they said he was very loyal to his mother. Many a Korean has told me that it was very common for MILs and DILs to hate each other.

Now, I'm ok with having been adopted. But this is some f-ed up shit in terms of Asian family values. All of it.

I'm south Asian, and I agree with much of what the above PP has said. The one thing I would disagree about is the how severe personality disorders are potentially more common in Asian/South Asian families. I think even personality disorders - or what's considered 'normal' - is very much culture-dependent. What people would consider here being 'Dependent Personality Disorder" for example, is just part of the normative culture in other parts. I think we as individuals just need to figure out how much independence versus inter-dependence sits well with us.

OP, I really feel like you either haven't analyzed the true motivations behind your family dynamics, or you don't know western people very well - just at surface level.

I would also imagine IF your MIL mistreated you, in the way that is very common among Indian MILs, you might feel different about the eastern "regard" for family. It's often one-directional.

Either you are very lucky in who your inlaws/relatives are as human beings, or you are trapped in a family where you have to console yourself by convincing yourself that you are 'family-oriented' and that is why you have no real independence. I truly hope its the former, but know way too many women who fit the latter category.

OP is full of fantasies. I married into a big SE Asian family, and no matter what I tell them, they assume that I'm estranged/disowned from my own loving family, just because we have typically American independent lives and boundaries, and don't obsessively cling to each other.

Meanwhile, the Asian in-laws spend every moment hanging out together, working together, prying into every gory detail of each other's personal business. They never stop gossiping about each other, telling each other what to do, and shaming/judging each other. This is how they control. They've lived in the US for decades, but have zero western friends, and they just don't understand western ways. They only condemn them. They go overboard idealizing their archaic and extreme mindset and traditions, and they railroad or disown anyone who tries to achieve a more healthy, balanced lifestyle.

Believe me, many of the elderly parents in Asian families are secretly loathed and resented, as they rule over their miserable adult kids' lives, pounding it into them that the kids owe them everything because the parents sacrificed everything for them. Is it love to sacrifice with conditions attached, conditions that mean your child is not free to love who they want, not free to go into the career they want, not free to have their own home, not free to be the person they are or have their own feelings? This is what a lot of Asian parents put on their kids. I've never seen such a concentration of severe personality disorders as I did once I finally managed to get under the facades of Asian families.

Yes, they stand by each other, and go out of their way to help each other, but the strings attached to everything can be suffocating. My husband is still in therapy trying to disentangle himself.

It's not healthy to have no boundaries, and to beat down peoples' normal emotions and needs and personalities to service the needs of the collective.