Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, to return to your question:

No, Allah is not the God of Christians and Jews. The next time a Muslim tells you that he is, ask if Allah had a Son who died on the cross for all of our sins. No? Then it's not the same thing.

This is unintentionally (I think) funny. Ask a Jew if Yahweh had a Son who died on the cross for all of our sins.

Why is that you think God as Christians and Jews worship Him is the same, but Allah is some other god (small g I am sure in your view)?

Yes, they all worship the same Abrahamic God.

You're absolutely right... my wording is unclear.. but the answer remains, no they do not.

Christians and Jews worship the same Go. While Jews would deny that Jehovah (this God) had a Son who died for our sins, as Christians will attest, Christians still worship the same God of the Jews.

Islam and Judaism both trace their spiritual lineage to Abraham, as you note, but the God-concept of Islam is different from that of Judaism and Christianity. Jehovah and Allah are both seen as omnipotent and merciful; however, in both Judaism and Islam, God’s mercy is dependent on man’s actions. This is absolutely not true in Christianity.

Anonymous wrote:OP, to return to your question:

No, Allah is not the God of Christians and Jews. The next time a Muslim tells you that he is, ask if Allah had a Son who died on the cross for all of our sins. No? Then it's not the same thing.

This is unintentionally (I think) funny. Ask a Jew if Yahweh had a Son who died on the cross for all of our sins.

Why is that you think God as Christians and Jews worship Him is the same, but Allah is some other god (small g I am sure in your view)?

Yes, they all worship the same Abrahamic God.

Whatever is, is. So there is some true thing that either is a "God" or there is nothing. If there is something, everyone just registers it differently and everyone has it at least a little bit wrong. We are only dimly perceiving what is. (See Plato's allegory of the cave, or for a lighter one, the South Park episode where the director of hell informs all the very devout people who wound up there "no, you got it wrong, the right answer was 'the Mormons'"

So the idea that there are different deity realities is funny.

OP, to return to your question:

No, Allah is not the God of Christians and Jews. The next time a Muslim tells you that he is, ask if Allah had a Son who died on the cross for all of our sins. No? Then it's not the same thing.

At one point, the Greeks through Zeus was real, too.

Anonymous wrote:I grew up learning that Jews and Christians have the same God but what about Muslims? A Professor a Wheaton was placed on leave for saying Muslims and Christians worship the same God.

There, there OP. Everything's gonna be alright. Nothing to see here. The common uninformed opinion that yes, they all worship the same God must be authoritative.

Never mind what Allah said to Mohammed, what do they know against all the endlessly repeated media pablum?

Quran 9:29

Make war on those who have received the Scriptures [Jews and Christians] but do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day. They do
not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden. The Christians and Jews do not follow the religion of truth until they
submit and pay the poll tax [jizya] and they are humiliated.

Can't remember the cite at 3:35 in the morning but Islam teaches there is no Trinity, that Christ is human but not divine, whose function is to point the way to Mohammed as the final prophet.

ANY non-Muslim is Kafir. Much more derogatory a term than simply "non-believer." Islam hates the Kafir. Although the more assimilated the Muslim you are speaking with, the more in your good graces they are and want to stay that way, the more incentive they have to engage in
Taqiyya (sacred deceit) which Islam encourages Muslims to employ against Kafir useful idiots.

I will return to this question when I am rested.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheist here. This thread is hilarious. Can't you all see the ridiculousness of arguing which is the "right" God to follow!?! Most of you believe in a single God, therefore, according to your belief systems, there can only be one God. Each belief system teaches different things about this God and insists that only this system is correct....all others are wrong. The only evidence for what any of these "holy books" teach is that someone thousands of years ago said it was so, and this got passed down to the next generations. All of you believe what you do only because your parents said so. We're all adults now. Think with your own minds. I can accept the belief in a higher being, though personally I find that belief illogical, however, following ancient "holy books", in this day and age, with all of the information available to us, is incomprehensible to me.

Atheism teaches the same. It is the point of belief. Everyone believes he or she is correct, and others are not. Including you

--your fellow atheist, sort of

If truth is objective, then most people are wrong about most things most of the time. It's just the way it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/thabitianyabwile/2015/12/19/muslims-and-christians-do-not-worship-the-same-god/

He got me on this line:

Christians believe their Muslim neighbors are guilty of the greatest sin–idolatry.

What????? Hard to imagine a more anti-idol religion than Islam.

Thabiti has talked about this more in some of the interviews he's done about his own conversion from Islam. They're a good read if you're interested in religion at all.

Anonymous wrote:http://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/thabitianyabwile/2015/12/19/muslims-and-christians-do-not-worship-the-same-god/

He got me on this line:

Christians believe their Muslim neighbors are guilty of the greatest sin–idolatry.

What????? Hard to imagine a more anti-idol religion than Islam.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
How was Abraham a Jew if there was no Torah yet? He was Noahide at best. Even members of Chabad do not agree among themselves if Abraham can really be considered a Jew.

No Problem. Jesus was not a Christian either. He was a jew. King of the Jews.

I totally agree! So we concur that a person need not belong to an actual religion to be the founder of it.

Anonymous wrote:
How was Abraham a Jew if there was no Torah yet? He was Noahide at best. Even members of Chabad do not agree among themselves if Abraham can really be considered a Jew.

No Problem. Jesus was not a Christian either. He was a jew. King of the Jews.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't Muslims make more of the fact that their religion comes from Judaism? Christians often say that Jesus was Jewish.

Because their religion doesn't come from Judaism.

Abraham was not Jewish. More like pre-Jewish.

Interesting. I always thought Abraham was Jewish. I know that Jews did not convert to being Muslims (the way Jews converted to Christianity), so what were the Muslims from Abraham to the 7th century?

Abraham was the first Jew -- the founder of Judaism, as Mohammed was the found of Islam. Abraham was born a pagan (or polytheist or whatever) but as an adult was contacted by G-d, who told him to stop worshiping false gods and follow him only. Which he did, and his family. That's why people refer to the Jewish G-d as the G-d of Abraham.

And his son Ishmael didn't become Jewish?

No. His son Isaac did, but Ishmael was the son of Abraham and his concubine, Hagar, and nowhere in the Torah does it say Hagar was Jewish. In fact it implies she lived differently and brought Ishmael up differently, and Abraham sent them both away when Isaac was a child.

And Muslims believe that Ishmael was a legitimate son and draw their lineage from him. We also believe he was the one Abraham was asked to sacrifice.

How was Abraham a Jew if there was no Torah yet? He was Noahide at best. Even members of Chabad do not agree among themselves if Abraham can really be considered a Jew.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why don't Muslims make more of the fact that their religion comes from Judaism? Christians often say that Jesus was Jewish.

Because their religion doesn't come from Judaism.

Abraham was not Jewish. More like pre-Jewish.

Interesting. I always thought Abraham was Jewish. I know that Jews did not convert to being Muslims (the way Jews converted to Christianity), so what were the Muslims from Abraham to the 7th century?

Abraham was the first Jew -- the founder of Judaism, as Mohammed was the found of Islam. Abraham was born a pagan (or polytheist or whatever) but as an adult was contacted by G-d, who told him to stop worshiping false gods and follow him only. Which he did, and his family. That's why people refer to the Jewish G-d as the G-d of Abraham.

And his son Ishmael didn't become Jewish?

No. His son Isaac did, but Ishmael was the son of Abraham and his concubine, Hagar, and nowhere in the Torah does it say Hagar was Jewish. In fact it implies she lived differently and brought Ishmael up differently, and Abraham sent them both away when Isaac was a child.

And Muslims believe that Ishmael was a legitimate son and draw their lineage from him. We also believe he was the one Abraham was asked to sacrifice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even the blasphemer is communicating with/about the same God as the rest of us, because there is only one God - any monotheistic religion is dedicated to the same God as the rest of the others; it's just that some people are misguided. But being misguided about how to communicate with God and what he's trying to tell us doesn't mean that another God exists. That is simply not true. I'm not sure how any one who claims to believe in God could conclude differently. If you're a polytheist, I'll give you a pass on this one, but any monotheist should fundamentally understand more than anything that there is one God and he has a relationship with all of his creation. The fact that some people misunderstand that relationship doesn't take away from his singleness.

This is a nice view, but it doesn't mean that Amun-Ra and the God of Islam are the "same." Maybe if there is a God, he hears all people's prayers, but that does not mean all people are worshiping the same "entity." In other words, a monotheistic religion could have a description of God that is "wrong," or a set of beliefs that are fundamentally different from another monotheistic religion. For example, I do not believe that God is a flying spaghetti monster. Someone worshiping a flying spaghetti monster is not worshiping the same God as me, even if he says that flying spaghetti monster is the god of Abraham.

But none of the major monotheists believe that God is a spaghetti monster. Those of us who believe in God, believe that God created the world and all it contains and that over time he has continually reached out us to give his loving guidance - and every time he does that, there are those who reject his message and his sacrifice[b]. His attempts to reach us and guide us are what materialize in the different religions. The source of differences between the religions is that people have a hard time distinguishing between God's genuine attempts to reach us and false prophets. Those who reject his genuine communication because they fear false prophets - those people are not worshiping a different God, but they now have mistakenly rejected a complete relationship with him. That is not the same as starting a relationship with a different entity. And those who mistakenly follow a false prophet are not worshiping a different God either. They are misguided and therefore their relationship with God is off-track, but that relationship has not died or been transferred to another power.

Are you arguing that this is the Christian point of view? I don't think you can speak for "those of us who believe in God" because many people would not agree with you. The God of Christianity is very specific and has a character that is not replicated in other religions. If "God" is some vague concept to you, it is easy to see how all versions of "God" look the same. The "God" of other monotheist religions might as well be a flying spaghetti monster to me, because my God is a Trinity. The "God" of Islam has characteristics that are completely antithetical to my beliefs, no matter the resemblance in other areas. I don't believe in that god. If you have a belief system that says all religions have some validity, that is great. But it has no basis in Christianity.

The phrase "those of us who believe" was tied to the sentence bolded above - which is that the major monotheistic religions of the world share an understand that God created the world and all it contains, and that since our creation, God has continually reached out to us. Is that not in line with what you believe as a Christian? Has God failed to reach out and to guide you closer to him? Did he not create the earth and you? That is all I'm claiming we monotheists have in common, and that's actually quite a big thing to have in common.

Now to your point about others being gravely mistaken and that fundamentally changing the notion of God - let's take the example of Mormons. Their notion of God is different, is more like a human-like father figure, than what most monotheistic religions believe, but being mistaken about the exact attributes of God and how he relates to us (specifically, that he sent Joseph Smith to uncover golden tablets as part of God's ongoing relationship with us), does not mean that they have a different God and that through their worship, they are communing with a different deity or that their prayers are going into a black hole of nothingness. I believe they are mistaken about what God has asked of us and how God has chosen to communicate with us, but that doesn't mean there is a different Mormon God, apart from the Christian God, or the Jewish God, or the Muslim God. There is one God. He created everything, including us, and since then has sought a relationship with us. Some of have embraced the path he has laid out for us, some have mistakenly followed a different path, while others have wholehearted rejected him.