not everyone should go to college, most people are better off in a trade or service industry

Anonymous wrote:Too many people are going to college so you need another means to be at an advantage

+1 they need to close the spigot to all the college loans

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

Irresponsible behavior from children?!.!? I can not believe it. I am sure that doesn't happen in Lake Wobegon.

It can also indicate an unstable, chaotic, abusive home life.

Exactly. Will children occasionally be irresponsible? Of course. However, chronic irresponsibility is a product of something like unstable home life, substance abuse, social isolation or difficulties, detached parents, poor role models, anger, depression or emotional problems, etc. Chronic teenage irresponsibility is never indicative of a child in a positive and healthy environment.

Did you learn that while earning your graduate degree in child development or psychology?

The point is that children are not adults, and they should not be required to act as such. It is too much pressure for high school students to hear from you-the rest of your life depends on the decisions you make right now. Of course, we should lead them and guide them, but we should also be teaching them that mistakes happen and it is what you do next that counts. Affluence does not immunize your children against the troubles of adolescence. The article: Silicon Valley Suicides in the Atlantic explains:


The rich middle- and high-school kids Luthar and her collaborators have studied show higher rates of alcohol and drug abuse on average than poor kids, and much higher rates than the national norm. They report clinically significant depression or anxiety or delinquent behaviors at a rate two to three times the national average. Starting in seventh grade, the rich cohort includes just as many kids who display troubling levels of delinquency as the poor cohort, although the rule-breaking takes different forms. The poor kids, for example, fight and carry weapons more frequently, which Luthar explains as possibly self-protective. The rich kids, meanwhile, report higher levels of lying, cheating, and theft.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/12/the-silicon-valley-suicides/413140/

Anonymous wrote:I feel like OP misread the article. Plus, it's Hanna Rosin, who is not high up on my list of most reliable narrators as an author.

ooh, when truth hurts, definitely take a potshot at the writer. your evidence for her unreliability would be??? i've read extensively about what's happening at those high schools in Silicon Valley and can find nothing wrong with her narrative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

Irresponsible behavior from children?!.!? I can not believe it. I am sure that doesn't happen in Lake Wobegon.

It can also indicate an unstable, chaotic, abusive home life.

Exactly. Will children occasionally be irresponsible? Of course. However, chronic irresponsibility is a product of something like unstable home life, substance abuse, social isolation or difficulties, detached parents, poor role models, anger, depression or emotional problems, etc. Chronic teenage irresponsibility is never indicative of a child in a positive and healthy environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

Irresponsible behavior from children?!.!? I can not believe it. I am sure that doesn't happen in Lake Wobegon.

It can also indicate an unstable, chaotic, abusive home life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is a very successful entrepreneur who went to a middling college with middling grades. He does much better that most of the stress case big law folks (with a much more pleasant lifestyle).

I went to Yale and am not as successful as him. I think it's really important to recognize that there are a myriad of paths . . .

You did not go to Yale. Please.

Maybe she was a STEM major....

Um, I most certainly did go to Yale. WTF. In fact, a lot of my artsy classmates are drowning in debt and have financially underwhelming careers. Remove your head from your ass.

Yale has a no-loans policy and the average indebtedness of their graduates is significantly lower than most schools.

Not for their professional schools

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is a very successful entrepreneur who went to a middling college with middling grades. He does much better that most of the stress case big law folks (with a much more pleasant lifestyle).

I went to Yale and am not as successful as him. I think it's really important to recognize that there are a myriad of paths . . .

You did not go to Yale. Please.

Maybe she was a STEM major....

Um, I most certainly did go to Yale. WTF. In fact, a lot of my artsy classmates are drowning in debt and have financially underwhelming careers. Remove your head from your ass.

Yale has a no-loans policy and the average indebtedness of their graduates is significantly lower than most schools.

I feel like OP misread the article. Plus, it's Hanna Rosin, who is not high up on my list of most reliable narrators as an author.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

Irresponsible behavior from children?!.!? I can not believe it. I am sure that doesn't happen in Lake Wobegon.

I thought it was the job of a child to be irresponsible.

Hmm, I know a lot of teens who are responsible. Do their homework. Turn it in. Take care of their chores. Attend meetings and practices for activities they chose to participate in. Spend their money in a "responsible" manner. Too bad your kids didn't get the memo...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

Irresponsible behavior from children?!.!? I can not believe it. I am sure that doesn't happen in Lake Wobegon.

I thought it was the job of a child to be irresponsible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

Irresponsible behavior from children?!.!? I can not believe it. I am sure that doesn't happen in Lake Wobegon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Wow! So many of you have drunk the 'competitive' Kool-aid. My job is to help my kids find their passion and ensure they're educated - and education isn't just found in school. I have no doubt my kids will be successful at whatever they decide to pursue. They may not be the best but they'll be happy.


I am the above "poverty poster." It has nothing to with "drinking the koolaid" and everything to do with facing reality. I don't care where my kids go to college or what career path they choose. I do care that they do not squander their high school years and close off their options before they are mature enough to even realize that they have options. They have plenty of time for extracurriculars of their choice and plenty of down time, but screwing around and closing doors by not doing their best academically (and that is different for each of my kids based upon their abilities) is not an option. Neither DH nor I had a safety net. Had we not be motivated to do our best as kids, we should still be ultra poor like our families. My kids can chose that life after they leave our home, but we are not choosing it for them by allowing them to close doors before they have ever had a chance to be opened. If you think it is easy to make a life correction then you are the one drinking the koolaid.

You've not only drunk the Kool-aid but also have poverty anxiety. You think things kids do or don't do in high school will limit their opportunities forever. I get your fear but your perception is warped and unhealthy.

Not warped and not-unhealthy. Good study habits, good work ethic and responsible behavior does indeed lead to success. Can someone overcome a bad start? Of course. Is or easy to overcome a crappy high school record leading to crappy college or no college admission. Of course not--particularly since it generally reflects poor study habits, poor work ethic and irresponsible behavior. People can change but generally don't fundamentally change. I have no poverty anxiety. I have lived it. I have escaped it. I could live it again if necessary. Do I want my children to potentially lock themselves into a particular economic class before their lives even start? Of course not. You make a lot of accusations and assumptions about someone who does not share your narrow world view. As the saying goes...walk a mile in my shoes--or in the case of my childhood--holey shoes. As I previously stated, the only reason DH and I escaped the poverty of our prior generations is because we prioritized education and worked our asses off. Perhaps, we should just give our kids a big trust old fund and not worry about them achieving their own success (as they eventually define the word) in life. I prefer to think they are better off using their own gifts and talents and become their own people and that starts either education.

I grew up in modest means (parents were farmers) and sorry, but you sound nuts.

So of the most successful people in the world took very unusual paths to their success.

"Modest means" in no way provides the same life experience as go to bed hungry. In any event, there will always be outliers but for every slacker that makes it, there are a multitude that never overcome the slacker mindset. Don't get me wrong. That is fine if they are happy. However, wanting your children to do the best that they are capable of doing, having as many options available to them as they are reasonably capable of achieving, and teaching them responsible behavior and good decision making skills is hardly warped. Our children know where we came from, the work ethic that not only allowed but continues to allow us to have options, and see us model responsible behavior, and naturally follow in that path. If that makes me nuts, then I gladly accept your insult.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband is a very successful entrepreneur who went to a middling college with middling grades. He does much better that most of the stress case big law folks (with a much more pleasant lifestyle).

I went to Yale and am not as successful as him. I think it's really important to recognize that there are a myriad of paths . . .

You did not go to Yale. Please.

Maybe she was a STEM major....

Um, I most certainly did go to Yale. WTF. In fact, a lot of my artsy classmates are drowning in debt and have financially underwhelming careers. Remove your head from your ass.

This area has a very weird mindset.

I grew up in Florida. Everyone went to state schools. Don't know anyone who went Ivy. Almost everyone got jobs -- very, very good jobs, in fact. Lawyers, engineers, doctors, accountants, dentists, etc. Now their children are in those state schools, graduating -- and getting very good jobs. And buying houses, cars, having kids.

Much less pressure, and very good lives.