Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:28     Subject: When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:My niece is behind on several milestones - she is 23 months, just started walking last month, does not say any words at all. Brother and SIL live in another country, they don't believe in early intervention and think things will sort themselves out. They saw a pediatric neurologist a couple of times, but keep whatever info they got secret.

I think they are too carefree about something like this and they don't do enough for the child (seeing specialists, development activities). But I can't say anything because it will accomplish only 1 thing - alienate them and create bad feelings. I am expecting my 1st, so I don't exactly have a long partenting resume. Sometimes you just have to keep your mouth shut until asked for advice.


They live in another country. You have no idea how they are working with their child day-to-day. They probably just don't want to discuss it with you, which is why they didn't share any information from the pediatric neurologist appointments. They're not keeping it secret - it's none of your damn business.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:27     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:

Given your credentials, I would approach it calmly and ask if they are willing to talk to you or another professional about it.


Psychologist PP's brother: We're going to put Larlo in daycare.
Psychologist PP: Would you be willing to talk to a professional about this?

I don't think that would go over well.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:27     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:


Actually I disagree. If your sister can't tell you the truth (or even just her professional opinion) who can? Seriously, are we never going to take advice from anyone ever? Did giving birth make me suddenly infallible ?

This "mine your own business" contingent has gone way too far. I would want to hear advice and opinion for other people. In the end it is my decision, of course, on how I raise my child but I am not afraid of differing opinions and generally learn something from them.


I would agree with you if she had calmly told them her professional opinion from the get go. Instead, she lost her sh*t on her SIL and has lost all credibility with them on this issue. There is no way you can approach them about this at this point without putting them on the defensive, and I don't blame them.


Well, that's exactly what she's asking for advice about. Given how close they are I don't think ALL credibility was lost, but it does make it a lot harder to broach.


Yes, and almost everyone's advice is to MYOB even the blow up incident aside.


everyone comes from their own place. I'm the PP who has a similar situation to PPs in my family, minus blowup. I think what a lot of respondents are totally missing is that PP has professional context for her "opinion." People don't go into fields like school psychology unless they really care about helping children and families. They then go to school for years and get thousands of hours of practice with actual people. It's one thing to MYOB when you are on the same footing as everyone else, as most PPs are--parent to parent, it's a wise parent who knows the limits of their knowledge and how to couch thing sin terms of their own experience or MYOB altogether. That is not PP's situation. When, because of your profession, you have actual evidence of something being done in a sub-optimal way, "MYOB" is not the same kind of decision.

As I said, my parents are educators. I didn't say before, but I am a developmental neuroscientist (research, not patients) and my sister is a social worker in the foster care system. When you have clinical experience like PP and my family members, a bad idea like her SILs is not just an idea that sounds bad, as it is to us regular parents. It is a bad idea you have personally seen, and worked to counteract, the effects of--not just once, either, but dozens or hundreds of times. Your mind goes not to "what if it were my kid" as our normal-parent minds do, but to the faces of the many kids you've seen who were harmed by such approaches. PP is not objecting to daycare, as so many PPs think she is, but to the stated objective to "toughen up" a 2 year old boy who his parents think is too sensitive.

I'm going to restate my advice because I hope psychologist PP sees it as coming from someone who's been in (ok, near) her shoes. You have decades ahead with these family members who think this way and as you well know your blowup has hurt your ability to speak up. Consider the question this way: is the best you can do for your nephew to get yourself "on the record" on this particular issue at the possible expense of some closeness with the family? Or are the long-term objectives better served by you continuing to be a close presence in his life? It is going to be hard to watch these relatives make decision after decision that you disagree with and watch your nephew suffer. So you have to think about what good is actually within your reach to do here. Changing their behavior is likely not within your reach. Giving your nephew a safe space with you, however, can be.

Either way you have to apologize. I think you can humble yourself enough to someday be in a position where they will see you as a source for advice if they're having an issue. but that day may never come even if it needs to.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:27     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:




Actually I disagree. If your sister can't tell you the truth (or even just her professional opinion) who can? Seriously, are we never going to take advice from anyone ever? Did giving birth make me suddenly infallible ?

This "mine your own business" contingent has gone way too far. I would want to hear advice and opinion for other people. In the end it is my decision, of course, on how I raise my child but I am not afraid of differing opinions and generally learn something from them.

Crazy PP admitted that she actually exploded on her family for their decision to choose daycare over nanny. This is what you want as well-meaning advice? And, as if that weren't enough, she wants to go back and harass them even further about it. This is precisely why we say mind your own business. There is 0 evidence that this child is going to have a problem with daycare yet this person cannot even contemplate not giving her opinion. And then giving it again. It's ridiculous!


Come on - PP apologized for losing it! Sorry that everyone's reactions in the moment are not perfect!! She should definitely tell her brother her opinion on something this important!

Look - we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I think doing anything to "toughen up" a toddler is a wrong choice.

So you are saying that you would find it acceptable if someone exploded at you because you did not parent the way they approve? In this case, for some weird reason, you agree with PP. What about when you don't?
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:25     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am in a similar situation, OP. Except I was a total jerk and had a strong emotional reaction first. Now I want to tell this parent/family member the facts calmly but an hesitant to open the can of worms that I did when I was an asshole and screamed at her.


Not to hijack your thread, but does anyone have advice for me? Can I now approach the subject calmly just to get on the record?


Keep your mouth shut.


+1


Wow - I disagree 100%!!! If I thought my sister was doing something that would emotionally hurt my nephew I would explode at her - and then apologize but definitely restate my objections calmly later. I love my nephew and my sister!!! These are not some random strangers whose business I can butt out of - they are constants in my son's, DH's and my life.


I would definitely bring it up again, PP.


I'll be looking for your sister's post on the "Family Relationships" board. Probably something about her sister yelling at her for deciding to formula feed her son. And then, after they'd moved past it (so she thought!) her sister sent her a follow up email with links and "calm" explanation. How thoughtful!


PP here and no. My nephew is a very, very bright but sensitive and well behaved boy and only 23 months old. He has been home with a loving nanny who reads to him about two hours a day which he loves - and older books for four and five year olds. This is a smart kid. He is also small for his age. My brother and SIL decided to send him to a big, franchised daycare for 8 hours a day at least and fire his nanny "to toughen him up". I am opposed to everything about this plan but mostly his motivation. I am a school psychologist and consultant for the top DC private preschools and I know this is a mistake.


I was a jerk to lose it on my SIL when she told me. Now I do want to talk to my SIL and brother about this calmly. And we are close - my brother's family and mine - having kids the same age and shuttling between each others houses for holidays and often evening date-night care.

I feel I have to say something.


Daycare vs Nanny question. Regardless of their motivations, putting the kid in day care is not going to hurt him. Definitely not your place.

- Mom to a kid who is extremely bright, small for her age, and thriving at day care


Actually, switching a child from one-on-one nanny or other care to institutionalized daycare between 18 months and 36 months could hurt him, emotionally and mentally. PP knows why it's a concern, that's why she was so upset and why she wants to talk rationally with them.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:25     Subject: When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
OP, have you considered that your brother's family might not be in a position to pay for a nanny any longer? And that they may not necessarily be comfortable to share their financial concerns with you because you're a judgy busybody who butts with opinions when nobody asked you?
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:23     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am in a similar situation, OP. Except I was a total jerk and had a strong emotional reaction first. Now I want to tell this parent/family member the facts calmly but an hesitant to open the can of worms that I did when I was an asshole and screamed at her.


Not to hijack your thread, but does anyone have advice for me? Can I now approach the subject calmly just to get on the record?


Keep your mouth shut.


+1


Wow - I disagree 100%!!! If I thought my sister was doing something that would emotionally hurt my nephew I would explode at her - and then apologize but definitely restate my objections calmly later. I love my nephew and my sister!!! These are not some random strangers whose business I can butt out of - they are constants in my son's, DH's and my life.


I would definitely bring it up again, PP.


I'll be looking for your sister's post on the "Family Relationships" board. Probably something about her sister yelling at her for deciding to formula feed her son. And then, after they'd moved past it (so she thought!) her sister sent her a follow up email with links and "calm" explanation. How thoughtful!


PP here and no. My nephew is a very, very bright but sensitive and well behaved boy and only 23 months old. He has been home with a loving nanny who reads to him about two hours a day which he loves - and older books for four and five year olds. This is a smart kid. He is also small for his age. My brother and SIL decided to send him to a big, franchised daycare for 8 hours a day at least and fire his nanny "to toughen him up". I am opposed to everything about this plan but mostly his motivation. I am a school psychologist and consultant for the top DC private preschools and I know this is a mistake.


I was a jerk to lose it on my SIL when she told me. Now I do want to talk to my SIL and brother about this calmly. And we are close - my brother's family and mine - having kids the same age and shuttling between each others houses for holidays and often evening date-night care.

I feel I have to say something.


Given your credentials, I would approach it calmly and ask if they are willing to talk to you or another professional about it.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:23     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
It is clear why OP refused to say what the issue was. Look at what happened to this thread just by a PP opening this can of worms. We lose sight of the actual question posed. \


And to OP - yes, I always give my opinion/advice and hope my friends and family will do the same for me. It is the parents decision ultimately but no one is hurt by opposing views or advice. Information is power - always has been and always will be.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:22     Subject: When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
I would never listen to a supposed psychologist who couldn't keep her cool enough to calmly discuss an issue with me. Exploding over a choice to use daycare, really? You're lucky if they ever speak to you again.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:21     Subject: When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:There was a big debate here a few months ago started by someone who was worried her nephew had not been enrolled in school by age 6 and the SIL was "home schooling" but not actually doing anything. That's where my mind went with this one.

Personally, if that were the case, I'd consider calling the authorities. But that's just me.


I would if I knew for sure that nothing was being done. But, I have experience homeschooling, so I do know that what may look like nothing to most people is actually a good introduction to school.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:20     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:




Actually I disagree. If your sister can't tell you the truth (or even just her professional opinion) who can? Seriously, are we never going to take advice from anyone ever? Did giving birth make me suddenly infallible ?

This "mine your own business" contingent has gone way too far. I would want to hear advice and opinion for other people. In the end it is my decision, of course, on how I raise my child but I am not afraid of differing opinions and generally learn something from them.

Crazy PP admitted that she actually exploded on her family for their decision to choose daycare over nanny. This is what you want as well-meaning advice? And, as if that weren't enough, she wants to go back and harass them even further about it. This is precisely why we say mind your own business. There is 0 evidence that this child is going to have a problem with daycare yet this person cannot even contemplate not giving her opinion. And then giving it again. It's ridiculous!


Come on - PP apologized for losing it! Sorry that everyone's reactions in the moment are not perfect!! She should definitely tell her brother her opinion on something this important!

Look - we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I think doing anything to "toughen up" a toddler is a wrong choice.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:18     Subject: When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:No way in h*ll would I attempt to tell a new mom that there was only one "right" way to parent and that was My way.

I know what works best for me and for my dh and for my children. That's it. Other parents are certainly just as capable to figure out what will work best for their families.

Sometimes we might have strong opinions about why we chose what we did. Sometimes we might even feel defensive about our own choices and feel the need to tout how wonderful our choice is to other people. Don't.

Quality daycare (or SAH, or grandparents watching the grandkids) is most absolutely a perfectly legitimate option. And it might be the ideal option for some families.


We cam learn from opinion and advice. I would be more afraid to simply rule out any advice based on my instincts. Then again, I was raised to listen, then verify, then decide on any subject. Certainly raising my children is the most important thing I have to do and I want to learn all opinions and hear all advice - then I verify all I hear and then decide.

So to PP - approach the subject of your nephew again calmly and gently with your brother and SIL. Then you have no choice but to let it go and support your nephew in any way possible. And NEVER take an "I told you so" attitude with your brother when it doesn't work out.
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:17     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here and thank you. I also feel that I need to mention it once, gently and calmly, and then let it go.

Sorry, but I have been around DCUM long enough to know what a huge debate this would set off!


"Hurt but not kill", and cause emotional pain? I'm guessing it's something along the lines of circumcision, CIO, etc? Mom going back to work and putting kid in daycare? Singapore math? Just say what it is, so we can properly answer your question.


Circumcision
Formula-feeding
Strollers
Sleep-training
Spanking
Time outs
Daycare
Solid food
Backpack leashes
Reading instruction
Walking to/from the school bus stop/park without parental supervision
....?

(But probably not Singapore Math. )


Babywearing past 6 months
Allowing sugar for special occasions
allowing exposure to mild allergen
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:16     Subject: Re:When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:




Actually I disagree. If your sister can't tell you the truth (or even just her professional opinion) who can? Seriously, are we never going to take advice from anyone ever? Did giving birth make me suddenly infallible ?

This "mine your own business" contingent has gone way too far. I would want to hear advice and opinion for other people. In the end it is my decision, of course, on how I raise my child but I am not afraid of differing opinions and generally learn something from them.

Crazy PP admitted that she actually exploded on her family for their decision to choose daycare over nanny. This is what you want as well-meaning advice? And, as if that weren't enough, she wants to go back and harass them even further about it. This is precisely why we say mind your own business. There is 0 evidence that this child is going to have a problem with daycare yet this person cannot even contemplate not giving her opinion. And then giving it again. It's ridiculous!
Anonymous
Post 10/09/2015 11:13     Subject: When a friend or family member is making a huge parenting mistake...
Anonymous wrote:No way in h*ll would I attempt to tell a new mom that there was only one "right" way to parent and that was My way.

I know what works best for me and for my dh and for my children. That's it. Other parents are certainly just as capable to figure out what will work best for their families.

Sometimes we might have strong opinions about why we chose what we did. Sometimes we might even feel defensive about our own choices and feel the need to tout how wonderful our choice is to other people. Don't.

Quality daycare (or SAH, or grandparents watching the grandkids) is most absolutely a perfectly legitimate option. And it might be the ideal option for some families.


No one is disagreeing with you - especially the PP in question since both of her kids are in daycare. She is saying that daycare for a shy sensitive little guy who has been home with a loving nanny for his entire 23 months on the planet should not be thrown into daycare now just to toughen him up!!! I am so surprised that any mother would debate that!