Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What math courses do kids take if they take algebra I in 6th grade?

7th: Geometry Honors
8th Algebra II Honors
9th Precalc Honors
10th AP Calc BC
11th Multivacalc and Matrix Algebra
12th AP Statistics

Unless they go to TJ or NOVA for more math options in 11/12th grade.

This doesn't get you anywhere new. My DC took Algebra I Honors in 7th and took AP Stats as an elective sophomore year and will take Multi and Matrix his senrio year. So taking Algebra I in 6th doesn't buy you anything but bragging rights. He is not unusual.

Yes, that is correct. Just because you take calculus your junior or sophomore year, or even your freshman, does not mean you are college material.

When UVA routinely accepts only 30 students out of a graduating class of 580 seniors, who are virtually all college-bound, this is the result. The competition is insane. Much better results for students, at all levels, applying out-of-state.

The problem with the NoVa parents mentioned is they're cheap. They want only in-state. They want one of the top 1-2 colleges or at least top 4 or 5. And all that matters - and this they are right about - is how competitive their kid is in relation to other NoVa students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question, because I have always wondered. I can see how some amount of Algebra and geometry is useful the real world. Basic chemistry, biOlogy & physics I get. World history and English? Okay, sure. But unless you are in very specialized engineering, math or physics wtf do you do with Calculus in real life? Because I have a graduate degree and a pretty successful professional job, and can honestly say I have not thought about any Calculus concept ever since I walked out of my second semester calculus final exam. If college admissions weren't in play, I would never encourage anyone but a hardcore STEM kid to take AP Calc over AP stats (which can be very useful in the real world) or discrete math (also useful). So why is the FCPS gold standard for a bright, college bound kid now Calc BC plus a semester of Multivariable-- with the Calculus troll saying they need more? Is there is some inherent value to Calculus for the 95% of people who don't think high level engineering or theoretical physics is their thing that I've just been missing out on my whole life? Otherwise-- why???

Totally, 100% agree.

The reality is that no colleges, outside of engineering programs and their ilk, expect calc in high school. Thousands of NoVa parents tell themselves colleges do, but every year thousands of kids are accepted to top colleges without calculus.

Okay, let's clear this up. Taking Calculus in high school isn't special. So to say that you can get into college without taking calculus is saying that there's nothing special about going to college and getting a Bachelor's Degree, which I point-blank refuse to believe.

I don't know what to tell you? As indicated in the link above, Harvard believes 40% of its freshmen are not ready to take calculus. It appears they were admitted to Harvard anyway.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Serious question, because I have always wondered. I can see how some amount of Algebra and geometry is useful the real world. Basic chemistry, biOlogy & physics I get. World history and English? Okay, sure. But unless you are in very specialized engineering, math or physics wtf do you do with Calculus in real life? Because I have a graduate degree and a pretty successful professional job, and can honestly say I have not thought about any Calculus concept ever since I walked out of my second semester calculus final exam. If college admissions weren't in play, I would never encourage anyone but a hardcore STEM kid to take AP Calc over AP stats (which can be very useful in the real world) or discrete math (also useful). So why is the FCPS gold standard for a bright, college bound kid now Calc BC plus a semester of Multivariable-- with the Calculus troll saying they need more? Is there is some inherent value to Calculus for the 95% of people who don't think high level engineering or theoretical physics is their thing that I've just been missing out on my whole life? Otherwise-- why???[/quote]

Totally, 100% agree.

The reality is that no colleges, outside of engineering programs and their ilk, expect calc in high school. Thousands of NoVa parents tell themselves colleges do, but every year thousands of kids are accepted to top colleges without calculus.[/quote]

Okay, let's clear this up. Taking Calculus in high school isn't special. So to say that you can get into college without taking calculus is saying that there's nothing special about going to college and getting a Bachelor's Degree, which I point-blank refuse to believe.[/quote]

Believe. Outside the tiger mom NOVA bubble and at you run of the mill GS 4 public HS, most kids do not take Calculus and only GT kids have an 8th grade Algebra option. Forget 7th. In my HS class of 110, we had 6 kids take Calculus. You've been hanging around the TJ gunning tiger moms too d@mn long. And a bachelor's degree isn't that special. Something like what-- 1/3, 40% of the US population has one. Not the NOVA population, or Langley grads, the entire US population. Which is much poorer, blacker, more Hispanic and less highly educated than the folks you apparently hang out with. A professional degree is an accomplishment. A PhD in many thing is down right special. A BA or BS-- for many URMs and fist generation college attendees, it's a huge accomplishment. Nevertheless, very ordinary. [/quote]

This. At the public middle school where I used to teach in Wisconsin (GS 9, I'm pretty sure, and 80% to four year colleges at the HS it fed into) only a third of the kids were taking algebra ONE in eighth grade. There were maaaaybe 5 kids per year that took it as seventh graders. Everyone else took it as freshmen.

Algebra 1 in seventh grade is uncommon. So is taking calculus in high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well I guess my kid better hang it up because he didn't take Algebra until 8th grade.

It's okay, I can introduce him to my kid, who took Algebra in 7th, but according to the Calculus troll is clearly destined for a life of burger flipping because he didn't take it in 6th. They can be burger flipping buddies.

Why do you act like that's a bad thing? I feel insulted.

You're right-- I should probably clarify that my kid has ADHD, and would be a terrible burger flipper-- he'd get fired for daydreaming and burning McDs down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question, because I have always wondered. I can see how some amount of Algebra and geometry is useful the real world. Basic chemistry, biOlogy & physics I get. World history and English? Okay, sure. But unless you are in very specialized engineering, math or physics wtf do you do with Calculus in real life? Because I have a graduate degree and a pretty successful professional job, and can honestly say I have not thought about any Calculus concept ever since I walked out of my second semester calculus final exam. If college admissions weren't in play, I would never encourage anyone but a hardcore STEM kid to take AP Calc over AP stats (which can be very useful in the real world) or discrete math (also useful). So why is the FCPS gold standard for a bright, college bound kid now Calc BC plus a semester of Multivariable-- with the Calculus troll saying they need more? Is there is some inherent value to Calculus for the 95% of people who don't think high level engineering or theoretical physics is their thing that I've just been missing out on my whole life? Otherwise-- why???

Totally, 100% agree.

The reality is that no colleges, outside of engineering programs and their ilk, expect calc in high school. Thousands of NoVa parents tell themselves colleges do, but every year thousands of kids are accepted to top colleges without calculus.

Okay, let's clear this up. Taking Calculus in high school isn't special. So to say that you can get into college without taking calculus is saying that there's nothing special about going to college and getting a Bachelor's Degree, which I point-blank refuse to believe.

What is your obsession with Calculus?? It's hard to imagine anything less applicable to most careers. Do kids also need AP language AND AP lit, plus AP physics C, plus 3 AP history and socials sciences, etc? All of these are arguably more correlated to real world skills. I strongly suspect you has an ES/MS kid, and the only thing you can helicopter about right now is TJ admissions and advanced math. Once your kid reaches HS, their are many different ways he or she can shine-- and many of those translate to successful careers. Calculus is one measuring stick-- out of many, many things a college bound kid can excel at. But there are lots of paths to success, including a BS.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well I guess my kid better hang it up because he didn't take Algebra until 8th grade.

It's okay, I can introduce him to my kid, who took Algebra in 7th, but according to the Calculus troll is clearly destined for a life of burger flipping because he didn't take it in 6th. They can be burger flipping buddies.

Why do you act like that's a bad thing? I feel insulted.

Anonymous wrote:Well I guess my kid better hang it up because he didn't take Algebra until 8th grade.

It's okay, I can introduce him to my kid, who took Algebra in 7th, but according to the Calculus troll is clearly destined for a life of burger flipping because he didn't take it in 6th. They can be burger flipping buddies.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Serious question, because I have always wondered. I can see how some amount of Algebra and geometry is useful the real world. Basic chemistry, biOlogy & physics I get. World history and English? Okay, sure. But unless you are in very specialized engineering, math or physics wtf do you do with Calculus in real life? Because I have a graduate degree and a pretty successful professional job, and can honestly say I have not thought about any Calculus concept ever since I walked out of my second semester calculus final exam. If college admissions weren't in play, I would never encourage anyone but a hardcore STEM kid to take AP Calc over AP stats (which can be very useful in the real world) or discrete math (also useful). So why is the FCPS gold standard for a bright, college bound kid now Calc BC plus a semester of Multivariable-- with the Calculus troll saying they need more? Is there is some inherent value to Calculus for the 95% of people who don't think high level engineering or theoretical physics is their thing that I've just been missing out on my whole life? Otherwise-- why???[/quote]

Totally, 100% agree.

The reality is that no colleges, outside of engineering programs and their ilk, expect calc in high school. Thousands of NoVa parents tell themselves colleges do, but every year thousands of kids are accepted to top colleges without calculus.[/quote]

Okay, let's clear this up. Taking Calculus in high school isn't special. So to say that you can get into college without taking calculus is saying that there's nothing special about going to college and getting a Bachelor's Degree, which I point-blank refuse to believe.[/quote]

Believe. Outside the tiger mom NOVA bubble and at you run of the mill GS 4 public HS, most kids do not take Calculus and only GT kids have an 8th grade Algebra option. Forget 7th. In my HS class of 110, we had 6 kids take Calculus. You've been hanging around the TJ gunning tiger moms too d@mn long. And a bachelor's degree isn't that special. Something like what-- 1/3, 40% of the US population has one. Not the NOVA population, or Langley grads, the entire US population. Which is much poorer, blacker, more Hispanic and less highly educated than the folks you apparently hang out with. A professional degree is an accomplishment. A PhD in many thing is down right special. A BA or BS-- for many URMs and fist generation college attendees, it's a huge accomplishment. Nevertheless, very ordinary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question, because I have always wondered. I can see how some amount of Algebra and geometry is useful the real world. Basic chemistry, biOlogy & physics I get. World history and English? Okay, sure. But unless you are in very specialized engineering, math or physics wtf do you do with Calculus in real life? Because I have a graduate degree and a pretty successful professional job, and can honestly say I have not thought about any Calculus concept ever since I walked out of my second semester calculus final exam. If college admissions weren't in play, I would never encourage anyone but a hardcore STEM kid to take AP Calc over AP stats (which can be very useful in the real world) or discrete math (also useful). So why is the FCPS gold standard for a bright, college bound kid now Calc BC plus a semester of Multivariable-- with the Calculus troll saying they need more? Is there is some inherent value to Calculus for the 95% of people who don't think high level engineering or theoretical physics is their thing that I've just been missing out on my whole life? Otherwise-- why???

Totally, 100% agree.

The reality is that no colleges, outside of engineering programs and their ilk, expect calc in high school. Thousands of NoVa parents tell themselves colleges do, but every year thousands of kids are accepted to top colleges without calculus.

Okay, let's clear this up. Taking Calculus in high school isn't special. So to say that you can get into college without taking calculus is saying that there's nothing special about going to college and getting a Bachelor's Degree, which I point-blank refuse to believe.

Well I guess my kid better hang it up because he didn't take Algebra until 8th grade.

Anonymous wrote:DD found Alg 1 super challenging in 7th, with an extraordinary amount of work managed to finish with an A (good life leson for sure), really aced Geometry Intensified in 8th and is really struggling with Alg 2/Trig Intensified in 9th. She has a tutor this year who is finding that DD has a weak foundation in Alg 1. I think she was not intellectually ready for Alg 1 so early and while she managed it from a GPA perspective, she did not really learn it. We will see how this year goes But will likely hop off this fast track next year.

And according to our AAP Center MS, this exactly has become a huge problem in FCPS. AAP parents across the board at our ES are being strongly encouraged not todo Algebra in 7th. But it's a Carson feeder, so good luck with that.

DD found Alg 1 super challenging in 7th, with an extraordinary amount of work managed to finish with an A (good life leson for sure), really aced Geometry Intensified in 8th and is really struggling with Alg 2/Trig Intensified in 9th. She has a tutor this year who is finding that DD has a weak foundation in Alg 1. I think she was not intellectually ready for Alg 1 so early and while she managed it from a GPA perspective, she did not really learn it. We will see how this year goes But will likely hop off this fast track next year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question, because I have always wondered. I can see how some amount of Algebra and geometry is useful the real world. Basic chemistry, biOlogy & physics I get. World history and English? Okay, sure. But unless you are in very specialized engineering, math or physics wtf do you do with Calculus in real life? Because I have a graduate degree and a pretty successful professional job, and can honestly say I have not thought about any Calculus concept ever since I walked out of my second semester calculus final exam. If college admissions weren't in play, I would never encourage anyone but a hardcore STEM kid to take AP Calc over AP stats (which can be very useful in the real world) or discrete math (also useful). So why is the FCPS gold standard for a bright, college bound kid now Calc BC plus a semester of Multivariable-- with the Calculus troll saying they need more? Is there is some inherent value to Calculus for the 95% of people who don't think high level engineering or theoretical physics is their thing that I've just been missing out on my whole life? Otherwise-- why???

Totally, 100% agree.

The reality is that no colleges, outside of engineering programs and their ilk, expect calc in high school. Thousands of NoVa parents tell themselves colleges do, but every year thousands of kids are accepted to top colleges without calculus.

Like at Harvard. See footnote 3 of this report:

http://harvardmagazine.com/sites/default/files/FAS_Gen_Ed_Interim_Review.pdf