Anonymous wrote:There are racists who try to attach themselves to this event, but the event shouldn't be defined by them, anymore than Islam should be defined by the actions of a few terrorists.

You are completely ignoring that the bigots were the sponsors of this event, not attaching themselves. I am sure that you and I could agree on about 95% of the cartoon issue. If you were going to draw a cartoon, I would fully support it. I'd even publish it here (and I say that without a clue about what type of cartoon you would draw). I've even posted Muhammad cartoons here myself. There is a very big difference between a group being defined by its outliers (as Geller defines Islam) and a group being defined by its leaders (as I define Geller's organization). I understand and appreciate your determination to stand up to bullies who would murder in response to ideas. There are a number of such people who I consider heroes. Most don't get near the publicity as those who sponsor anti-Islam activities. But even one of the survivors of the Charlie Hebdo attack distanced himself from Geller, saying her organization was simply anti-Islamic:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/charlie-hebdo-cartoonists-distance-themselves-from-texas-event-no-comparison/

jsteele wrote:


If a group committed to freedom of expression hosted a contest of Muhammad cartoons, I would feel differently, though I would hope they would address other religions as well. But, when a group that is engaged in an ongoing hate campaign against Islam hosts such a contest, their motives cannot be ignored.

It is unfortunate that you so willingly ignore Geller's Islamophobia and deem her worthy of praise and support. I am sure you wouldn't so easily ignore or excuse racism or anti-Semitism.

There is no need to address other religions because no-one is being murdered for drawing cartoons about other religions.

I am not a fan of Pamela Geller. Her website attempts to collate all the news of atrocities committed in the name of Islam. That is fine - it is hardly fair and balanced but I could say the same thing about the CAIR website. But her reader feedback is filled with racist and Islamophobic statements which she does not appear to stop. So I don't want to be associated with her, but that does not mean that everything she does is wrong.

And I am in strong support of the "draw Muhammed" event. I am in support of someone being able to say "if the Prophet Muhammed were alive today, he would be aghast the actions of ISIS and Al-Queda. Or as a cartoonist would express this, by showing a drawing of Muhammed crying while viewing a terrorist act. As far as I could tell (the media was not very helpful in showing the drawings), the drawings at the contest were like this, and not at all racist or Islamaphobic.

There are racists who try to attach themselves to this event, but the event shouldn't be defined by them, anymore than Islam should be defined by the actions of a few terrorists.

Anonymous wrote:
By the way, regarding Nigeria? They might be half Christian, but the WaPo article makes it clear that several states have adopted sharia law and have imposed the death penalty for gay men. So it's not the Christian half...

And it seems in Uganda, the issue is being fought in the courts, which is quite civilized.

It seems Sharia law is the real issue here, i.e. Islamic law.

There is nothing civilized about a law that condemns gay people to death. The law in Uganda was passed by Christians and given very strong support by American Christian groups. Here is a Christian pastor that believes gay people should be killed:

"Well the Bible teaches actually that gays should be executed. Because it actually says in Leviticus 20:13 that if a man also lie with mankind as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination, they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them,"

http://www.christianpost.com/news/bible-says-gays-should-be-executed-and-i-believe-every-word-says-arizona-pastor-99583/

Here is another one:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/09/megachurch-pastor-says-gays-must-be-put-to-death/

‘If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death. And their blood is on their own hands.’

So, why are you not raving about Christians killing gays daily?

Regarding "Sharia", there is no agreed upon "Sharia". So, which "Sharia" is the problem? Do you even know the differences between various versions of "Sharia"?

Since you believe there is only one "Islam" and what some crazy cult does in Iraq must apply to every Muslim, you must also believe there is only one Christianity and one Judaism, right? So, what are the Christian and Jewish views of homosexuality? There couldn't possibly be more than one view for each of them based on your logic.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1) Most countries enforcing Sharia Law and quoting Sharia Law
2) How many people has Iraq prosecuted for murdering a gay individual?

You are deliberately playing a game. Problem is, it's not really working because I am right as rain. Like a typical smarmy liberal, you think that accusations of bigotry is hurtful to conservatives. It's not. We find it a wholly amusing tactic, one that requires no intellect at all. I expect more from you - clearly you are a bright man. Don't degrade yourself with such foolishness.

When people post anti-Semetic or racist posts in DCUM, they get reported and I delete them. When people like you post anti-Islamic statement such as accusing an entire religion of killing gay men daily, I am expected to defend them. But, enough of that. You posted a bigoted message and now you are attempting to defend your bigotry. Don't bother. Own your ignorance and hatred. It's what makes you you. Own it.

No thanks. I'm fine with whatever you call me. Enjoy your evening.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

Please! You and I both know this behavior not on,y occurs regularly, but that the perpetrators are not prosecuted

I think that you are a confused individual. You are unable to distinguish between individuals, groups of individuals, and entire regions. Based on your previous posts, you also have trouble distinguishing between governments and religions.

As a result of your confusion, you have adopted a very bigoted view of Islam. Were you similarly confused about other religions, you would be shunned and ostracized. But, lucky for you, enough people share your confusion about Islam that you will not be troubled.

The WApo article I posted says otherwise

The Washington Post article further documents your confusion:

1) The article is about countries, not religions;
2) The first country mentioned in the article is Uganda, which is Christian;
3) One country, Nigeria, is half Christian;
4) There are over 50 countries with Muslim majorities. This list -- which includes countries such as Iraq in which such killings are illegal -- hardly represents the entire Muslim world.

By your logic, the one and a half Christians countries listed is enough to suggest that "Christianity kills gay men daily".

As I said previously, you are confused and unable to distinguish between religions and governments or between individuals, groups of individuals, and religions. Your confusion has led you to develop bigoted views. I hope that you will become better informed and less confused.

By the way, regarding Nigeria? They might be half Christian, but the WaPo article makes it clear that several states have adopted sharia law and have imposed the death penalty for gay men. So it's not the Christian half...

And it seems in Uganda, the issue is being fought in the courts, which is quite civilized.

It seems Sharia law is the real issue here, i.e. Islamic law.

Anonymous wrote:
1) Most countries enforcing Sharia Law and quoting Sharia Law
2) How many people has Iraq prosecuted for murdering a gay individual?

You are deliberately playing a game. Problem is, it's not really working because I am right as rain. Like a typical smarmy liberal, you think that accusations of bigotry is hurtful to conservatives. It's not. We find it a wholly amusing tactic, one that requires no intellect at all. I expect more from you - clearly you are a bright man. Don't degrade yourself with such foolishness.

When people post anti-Semetic or racist posts in DCUM, they get reported and I delete them. When people like you post anti-Islamic statement such as accusing an entire religion of killing gay men daily, I am expected to defend them. But, enough of that. You posted a bigoted message and now you are attempting to defend your bigotry. Don't bother. Own your ignorance and hatred. It's what makes you you. Own it.

Anonymous wrote:
Now let's get back to the subject at hand. Do I think holding a Draw Muhammed contest is a brave act in support of the First amendment, and is deserving of praise and support?

Absolutely yes..

You are divorcing the contest from its context. I think you would agree that a display of nudity created by lovers of classical art would be different than a display of nudity created by Hustler magazine. Describing both as nothing more than a "display of art" is accurate, but useless in describing the reality. If a group committed to freedom of expression hosted a contest of Muhammad cartoons, I would feel differently, though I would hope they would address other religions as well. But, when a group that is engaged in an ongoing hate campaign against Islam hosts such a contest, their motives cannot be ignored.

It is unfortunate that you so willingly ignore Geller's Islamophobia and deem her worthy of praise and support. I am sure you wouldn't so easily ignore or excuse racism or anti-Semitism.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

Please! You and I both know this behavior not on,y occurs regularly, but that the perpetrators are not prosecuted

I think that you are a confused individual. You are unable to distinguish between individuals, groups of individuals, and entire regions. Based on your previous posts, you also have trouble distinguishing between governments and religions.

As a result of your confusion, you have adopted a very bigoted view of Islam. Were you similarly confused about other religions, you would be shunned and ostracized. But, lucky for you, enough people share your confusion about Islam that you will not be troubled.

The WApo article I posted says otherwise

The Washington Post article further documents your confusion:

1) The article is about countries, not religions;
2) The first country mentioned in the article is Uganda, which is Christian;
3) One country, Nigeria, is half Christian;
4) There are over 50 countries with Muslim majorities. This list -- which includes countries such as Iraq in which such killings are illegal -- hardly represents the entire Muslim world.

By your logic, the one and a half Christians countries listed is enough to suggest that "Christianity kills gay men daily".

As I said previously, you are confused and unable to distinguish between religions and governments or between individuals, groups of individuals, and religions. Your confusion has led you to develop bigoted views. I hope that you will become better informed and less confused.

1) Most countries enforcing Sharia Law and quoting Sharia Law
2) How many people has Iraq prosecuted for murdering a gay individual?

You are deliberately playing a game. Problem is, it's not really working because I am right as rain. Like a typical smarmy liberal, you think that accusations of bigotry is hurtful to conservatives. It's not. We find it a wholly amusing tactic, one that requires no intellect at all. I expect more from you - clearly you are a bright man. Don't degrade yourself with such foolishness.

jsteele wrote:

1) Do you consider the Westboro Baptist folks to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"?

Absolutely not.

jsteele wrote:

2) Frequently, Nazis march in DC and elsewhere. Do you consider them to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"?

Absolutely not.

jsteele wrote:

3) The Stormfront website is a forum much like DCUM except that it focus is on white nationalism. Do you consider those posters to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"?

Absolutely not.

Now let's get back to the subject at hand. Do I think holding a Draw Muhammed contest is a brave act in support of the First amendment, and is deserving of praise and support?

Absolutely yes..

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote: While her actions are indisputably legal, they are insulting in a way that is not deserving of praise and support. .

Suppose supporters of a political leader, say Ted Cruz, decided that no cartoonist should ever draw him. And suppose several cartoonists who did draw Ted Cruz were then murdered. In support of these cartoonists, and to fight their intimidation, a group holds a "Ted Cruz drawing contest"

What would you say about the group holding the Ted Cruz drawing contest?

A) That while their actions are indisputably legal, they are utterly contemptible, and a provocation and an insult to Ted Cruz supporters everywhere,

or

B) That they are brave individuals deserving of praise and support, and leaders in the fight to preserve the First Amendment.

I am surprised that otherwise intelligent (seemingly at least) people seem determined to praise the contemptible Pam Geller. There are several flaws in the analogy that you are making. The most important is that it reduces Geller to a promoter of free speech rather than a leader of a hate movement. Doing that ignores reality.

Rather than inventing fanciful analogies, let consider some real life scenarios:

1) Do you consider the Westboro Baptist folks to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"?
2) Frequently, Nazis march in DC and elsewhere. Do you consider them to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"?
3) The Stormfront website is a forum much like DCUM except that it focus is on white nationalism. Do you consider those posters to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"?

Even the New York Times' Editorial Board writes, "Ms. Geller revels in assailing Islam in terms reminiscent of virulent racism or anti-Semitism." Do you consider people whose exercise their 1st Amendment rights by spouting virulent racism or anti-Semitism to be "brave individuals deserving of praise and support"? If not, then why would you suggest such a thing about Geller?

jsteele wrote: While her actions are indisputably legal, they are insulting in a way that is not deserving of praise and support. .

Suppose supporters of a political leader, say Ted Cruz, decided that no cartoonist should ever draw him. And suppose several cartoonists who did draw Ted Cruz were then murdered. In support of these cartoonists, and to fight their intimidation, a group holds a "Ted Cruz drawing contest"

What would you say about the group holding the Ted Cruz drawing contest?

A) That while their actions are indisputably legal, they are utterly contemptible, and a provocation and an insult to Ted Cruz supporters everywhere,

or

B) That they are brave individuals deserving of praise and support, and leaders in the fight to preserve the First Amendment.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

Please! You and I both know this behavior not on,y occurs regularly, but that the perpetrators are not prosecuted

I think that you are a confused individual. You are unable to distinguish between individuals, groups of individuals, and entire regions. Based on your previous posts, you also have trouble distinguishing between governments and religions.

As a result of your confusion, you have adopted a very bigoted view of Islam. Were you similarly confused about other religions, you would be shunned and ostracized. But, lucky for you, enough people share your confusion about Islam that you will not be troubled.

The WApo article I posted says otherwise

The Washington Post article further documents your confusion:

1) The article is about countries, not religions;
2) The first country mentioned in the article is Uganda, which is Christian;
3) One country, Nigeria, is half Christian;
4) There are over 50 countries with Muslim majorities. This list -- which includes countries such as Iraq in which such killings are illegal -- hardly represents the entire Muslim world.

By your logic, the one and a half Christians countries listed is enough to suggest that "Christianity kills gay men daily".

As I said previously, you are confused and unable to distinguish between religions and governments or between individuals, groups of individuals, and religions. Your confusion has led you to develop bigoted views. I hope that you will become better informed and less confused.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

Please! You and I both know this behavior not on,y occurs regularly, but that the perpetrators are not prosecuted

I think that you are a confused individual. You are unable to distinguish between individuals, groups of individuals, and entire regions. Based on your previous posts, you also have trouble distinguishing between governments and religions.

As a result of your confusion, you have adopted a very bigoted view of Islam. Were you similarly confused about other religions, you would be shunned and ostracized. But, lucky for you, enough people share your confusion about Islam that you will not be troubled.

The WApo article I posted says otherwise

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I asked the question because I think you gloss over it all the time because you know it to be true.

The fact that you have just confirmed your belief that "Islam kills gay men daily. Islam subjugates women daily" demonstrates that you have a very bigoted view of Islam. There is really no way to sugar coat that. Of course, you absolutely have the right to express your Islamophobic views. But, they are what they are.

+1000

It isn't a "belief." A fact in the news daily is not a belief. Acknowledging reality is not a phobia.

Can you point me to a reputable news article that reports that "Islam kills gay men daily"?

Please! You and I both know this behavior not on,y occurs regularly, but that the perpetrators are not prosecuted

I think that you are a confused individual. You are unable to distinguish between individuals, groups of individuals, and entire regions. Based on your previous posts, you also have trouble distinguishing between governments and religions.

As a result of your confusion, you have adopted a very bigoted view of Islam. Were you similarly confused about other religions, you would be shunned and ostracized. But, lucky for you, enough people share your confusion about Islam that you will not be troubled.

Ten countries where homosexuality can get you the death penalty:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/02/24/here-are-the-10-countries-where-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death/