Anonymous
Post 04/04/2015 10:45     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
I'd like a relationship but not have kids. Seems like a dealbreaker for most women I meet in my age group (late 20's/early 30's).

It is tough to truly find someone who doesn't genuinely not want kids.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 22:47     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a 36 year old woman. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'd like a long-term relationship but don't particularly care if it includes marriage or not. There may not be many of us, but we exist.


It seems like there are many people here making us out to be strange creatures walking around with emotional issues that would prevent intimacy.

I posed the question because I thought I was somehow setting myself up to miss out on the 'greener grass.' That's obviously not the case and so far it seems there are three types out there:

1. Those like you (potentially us) who can happily live without NEEDING to marry or have kids.

2. Those who think marriage and parenting are the gold standard for relationships and being family oriented, respectively; any deviation is a social mutation.

3. Those (like me) who are mentally and emotionally ambivalent; I don't NEED kids to feel complete/happy, but would only do it makes the woman I am in love with happy.

So number 3 highlights the 'trouble' because I am not sure if I will have regrets when the challenging times set in, or will suddenly want more after the first pregnancy. It is a very serious risk to take, so safe bet to avoid and say "not for me" altogether.

So for persons who have done parenting, did you do it because you/your relationship felt incomplete without it, or were you like number 3 going in?

That's my purpose for starting this thread, not to be told I am some social mutation because of my disposition.

Thanks.


NP here. I think you can live a happy, fulfilled life and never get married or have children. I would echo the previous posters that said you need to be upfront in dating. That said, I knew that I wanted a child at some point. I am not a kid person in general but I knew some day I wanted to experience being a mother ...even if this meant pursuing it solo. Now being married, I knew if I met the right person I would want to get married. Having parents that appeared to love each other but were not compatible when it came to the big things had me very cautious. I would rather be alone than in a bad relationship or one where we love each other but agree on nothing. I do think in some ways having children enhanced my relationship with DH. The most obvious downside is the lack of time with just the two of us or the less than optimal timing the kids have with staying up late, waking up during the night or waking up early.

I think the difficulty with your situation may be the ambivalence. If you think maybe but you end up with someone that either starts out maybe and decides they want kids or always knew they wanted kids, it would be tough for them if you to decide no kids. While you literally can decide in your 50's and beyond to have kids most woman pass that point of the decision being made in early 40's. If I am a woman in my late 30's assuming it would take 2-3 years to find someone I would want to marry and get married/try to have a child, by 37 or 38 I can't be a LTR that isn't leading to marriage and/or trying to start a family or that ship will have sailed for me before I can find someone that does wants the same thing.

As for deciding to have children and then resenting it, happiness is a state of mind to some extent. If you decide it is worth it, it will be worth it. I can't convince you that the sacrifices are worth it. I think one time when I was having one of those let's be real parenting discussion with really close friends we figured 80% is responsibility like the tripling of the laundry, balancing work, the cleaning, the diapers when they were younger, financial costs of daycare, housing costs to be in a school district with great programs, scrambling for snow and sick days, the work to find couples time etcwhile the object of these sacrifices/added responsibility will tell you are the worst parent ever because you asked them to do homework when they would rather watch tv. But the 20% of the times that have made the other times worth it.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 15:13     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
OP, dont have kids. My DH is the one in our family who wanted children, but he is a "me time" person and he struggles with resentment of them for taking too much time --and HE IS THE ONE THAT WANTED THEM. If you don't even have that buy in they will crush you. Luckily I am pretty low key so I am sitting here with my kids while DH is out doing his me stuff right now.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 14:28     Subject: Re:What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
"So I suppose I am the type to let love happen organically, but still 'control' the choices I make for family because of what I know of myself; structured, organized, and controlled. I guess this is where you tell me these characteristics are incompatible with parenting"


PP here. This is still my husband but I don't think he would turn back the clock if he could. He is defined by being a father now, although he has a very successful career.

Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 14:17     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a 50 + woman. I never wanted to get married, really. I certainly never wanted children. I thought they were too much work, too much money, too much time. I didn't want to cut into my freedom and fun. But my husband really, really wanted them, so after more than 10 years of marriage we started trying to have a child.

It took awhile, but we did have a child in our 40s -- and he turned out to have a disability. So definitely time, money, and work. And our freedom and fun have been curtailed. That being said, it has still been probably the most moving and important experience in my life. It's a gift to actually have to put yourself second, think of others first, do things you normally wouldn't want to do. Our child is so fun, and funny, and kind. It would be so much of a lesser life never having known him.

I also truly enjoy being married. We really enjoy each other and have each other's backs. We are each other's cheerleaders. I also hated dating, so it's great not to have to keep starting over. That may be fun in your mid 30s, but it's a different story in your mid 50s.


Thanks. This is a very solid perspective.

OP





The reason I think this is a solid perspective is because I really started this thread primarily to hear from experiences like yours.

While I know I naturally don't feel parenting NEEDS to be part of my life story, what happens if I fall in love with someone who wants it upfront, or eventually? Do I be fair to myself and walk away from the relationship, or COMPROMISE with the risk of resenting it during the testing times, but feeling fulfilled during the good times?

Personally I think I would struggle with resentment depending on the day, and I don't think that is really right or fair to those involved. So my question is, is it normal for parents to have resentments, or does fulfillment overshadow any room for resentment?

I prefer to ask now than to make a costly blunder further on.

Thanks.

OP.



Resentment? A lot of men feel resentful about their choice to become a father. Hell, my husband only now after 16 years of first becoming a father is actually enjoying the experience. He is not a kid person, he doesn't like them, but loves his own. He was not as involved as I would have liked. I covered his ass a lot with the kids. For his part, he provided well for them /us but he mostly wanted them to be seen not heard. For my part, I always wanted to have kids. For his part, he wanted me so went along with having kids because I wouldn't have stayed with him if he couldn't deliver on the kids front. He used to warned friends about having kids when asked. He acted like a bachelor in the singleminded way he spent his free time. I kept a positive front for the kids.

Fast forward to 15 years later. You will not meet anyone who brags more about his kids. His whole weekend is spent during activities with the kids, including the weeknights. He seems to enjoy doing the most mundane things with them now, where it used to bore him. They go out to dinner, takes long walks, watch silly movies, laugh at adolescent like jokes. As young teens, he is advising them about the benefit/perils of the dating world. They wear his clothes, he doesn't mind. They get into his stuff with no complaints. The sun seems to rise and set on them. He has completely taken over parenting duties from me in a major way. The kids are successful because he paved the way of opportunities for them. He is reaping the benefit. The kids dote on him, express their love and affection when he travels, always overlooking his shortcomings. Every time I see him grinning from ear to ear watching them accomplishing something, I have to remind him that I actually had to beg him for those kids, particularly, the second one. My story is not to encourage you to see kids in your future OP, but I remember my husband having a similar attitude about children. I give him an ultimatum, he chose to have kids to keep me and now they are his whole life.

It took 15 years of being positive (to the kids) and hopeful to get here. It has not been easy, but if you asked my husband now in his late 40's what he lives for, he would tell you his kids. He has become a passionate father and I'm blown away.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 14:14     Subject: Re:What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:Just want to chime in with my perspective.
When I was younger I didn't have a drive to have a family nor was I adverse to it. I now have a wife and two kids. It happened organically.
Dated a woman for 2 years we moved in together and I could see us being together for the rest of our lives so I proposed. After 4 years of marriage she wanted to start trying for kids. We were both comfortable in our careers and both had the time and money to raise kids. I thought it would be nice to add more people to our family. We both like the outdoors, hiking, backpacking. When we go wall climbing there are sometimes a family or two there and they seem to all be having fun. I wanted to share these experiences with my children.
Right now they are both very young (one toddler and one newborn) so we aren't having these fun adventures yet, but I'm in it for the long haul. I will say that it's great coming home from work and having the toddler run towards me with outstretched arms yelling "Daddeee!"
So no need to make any decisions now.



Hmmm interesting. I know what you mean about that feeling of a toddler running towards you as soon as you get in, and looking up to you. I got it a lot from living with my toddler niece, cousins, and god kids. Nice feeling for sure. I also note that I can only do about one hour of 'kiddies time' and then I am ready for 'me time' if you understand what I mean. Strangely enough kids always love me and I do love to spend time with them, but always feel that an hour or two is enough. I dread babysitting duties every time

So I suppose I am the type to let love happen organically, but still 'control' the choices I make for family because of what I know of myself; structured, organized, and controlled. I guess this is where you tell me these characteristics are incompatible with parenting

Good perspective nonetheless. Thanks!

OP
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 13:39     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote: Honestly, these questions make you sound socially immature. If having kids would make the woman you love happy, wouldn't that also make you happy? Marriage, or long-term relationships without marriage, are a two-way street. It's not about you sacrificing/compromising to make someone else happy -- it's about both of you working together to build a life together. When (not if) the challenging times set in, you need to examine whether what you have built together is worth it -- not just whether the sacrifices you have made have been worth it.


I am here to disrespect no one, and I resent being disrespected when I have posed clearly logical questions that most PPs grasp in one reading. So please rethink your tone because you do come across as offensive.

I will add "socially immature" to the list of things I am accused of being. Considering it is a 'condition' typical in children, wouldn't you do better just saying 'childish' instead of displaying your level of intelligence? These are questions more men need to ask before they start having kids irresponsibly, and leaving women as single moms, so I make no apologies for being vulnerable to good public wisdom by asking 'childish' questions here.

If you are advising me to "...examine whether what [I] have built together [with my partner] is worth it..." after a child is brought into the world, then I am afraid you are setting me up to do more harm than good. This is why Family Planning was promoted.

Also, the last time I checked the key to any successful relationship is the ability to compromise to make your partner happy. In other words sacrificing and compromising IS one way of "...working together to build a life together..."

In any event, thanks for weighing in and I will take your views into consideration.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do appreciate the other comments from PPs who took the time. It seems the overwhelming advice is to stay true to myself and NOT chase parenting if it something I see as taking away more than what it adds to my life. I don't necessarily think a vasectomy is for me, although I have seriously considered. It still does not take away the need to be a parent, because I could still change my mind further on and adopt, or be a step-dad to my partner's child. So I don't limit parenting to just biologically parenting here, I mean the institution of parenting. So in dating I choose women who are not mothers and who have no intention of being, if she is seeing the relationship over the long-term. I am always fully honest and open, just in case some PPs think I am not and am some type of player.

Thanks again for your comments

OP


Am I the only one who finds this OP to be pompous and insufferable?


Clearly not. He keeps digging himself deeper. His posts remind me of some truly terrible dates I went on many years ago.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 13:36     Subject: Re:What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Just want to chime in with my perspective.
When I was younger I didn't have a drive to have a family nor was I adverse to it. I now have a wife and two kids. It happened organically.
Dated a woman for 2 years we moved in together and I could see us being together for the rest of our lives so I proposed. After 4 years of marriage she wanted to start trying for kids. We were both comfortable in our careers and both had the time and money to raise kids. I thought it would be nice to add more people to our family. We both like the outdoors, hiking, backpacking. When we go wall climbing there are sometimes a family or two there and they seem to all be having fun. I wanted to share these experiences with my children.
Right now they are both very young (one toddler and one newborn) so we aren't having these fun adventures yet, but I'm in it for the long haul. I will say that it's great coming home from work and having the toddler run towards me with outstretched arms yelling "Daddeee!"
So no need to make any decisions now.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 12:42     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a 50 + woman. I never wanted to get married, really. I certainly never wanted children. I thought they were too much work, too much money, too much time. I didn't want to cut into my freedom and fun. But my husband really, really wanted them, so after more than 10 years of marriage we started trying to have a child.

It took awhile, but we did have a child in our 40s -- and he turned out to have a disability. So definitely time, money, and work. And our freedom and fun have been curtailed. That being said, it has still been probably the most moving and important experience in my life. It's a gift to actually have to put yourself second, think of others first, do things you normally wouldn't want to do. Our child is so fun, and funny, and kind. It would be so much of a lesser life never having known him.

I also truly enjoy being married. We really enjoy each other and have each other's backs. We are each other's cheerleaders. I also hated dating, so it's great not to have to keep starting over. That may be fun in your mid 30s, but it's a different story in your mid 50s.


Thanks. This is a very solid perspective.

OP



The reason I think this is a solid perspective is because I really started this thread primarily to hear from experiences like yours.

While I know I naturally don't feel parenting NEEDS to be part of my life story, what happens if I fall in love with someone who wants it upfront, or eventually? Do I be fair to myself and walk away from the relationship, or COMPROMISE with the risk of resenting it during the testing times, but feeling fulfilled during the good times?

Personally I think I would struggle with resentment depending on the day, and I don't think that is really right or fair to those involved. So my question is, is it normal for parents to have resentments, or does fulfillment overshadow any room for resentment?

I prefer to ask now than to make a costly blunder further on.

Thanks.

OP.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 10:33     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I do appreciate the other comments from PPs who took the time. It seems the overwhelming advice is to stay true to myself and NOT chase parenting if it something I see as taking away more than what it adds to my life. I don't necessarily think a vasectomy is for me, although I have seriously considered. It still does not take away the need to be a parent, because I could still change my mind further on and adopt, or be a step-dad to my partner's child. So I don't limit parenting to just biologically parenting here, I mean the institution of parenting. So in dating I choose women who are not mothers and who have no intention of being, if she is seeing the relationship over the long-term. I am always fully honest and open, just in case some PPs think I am not and am some type of player.

Thanks again for your comments

OP

It sounds to me like you're not willing to stand behind your choice not to have children. Losing the ability to father children takes away most scenarios with children - you'd have to actually date someone with a child to be a stepdad (which is up to you), and you'd have to decide to adopt. None of these choices can be sprung up on you as readily as pregnancy.

You are just really not sure whether you want children. You are NOT sure that you do not want children. If you were committed to the childless life, you'd get snipped already.


Isn't it kind of obvious that a committed person wouldn't seek opinions from anonymous strangers? Obviously, he is not sure, hence the questions. Nothing wrong with that.

No, there's nothing wrong with that. This is why I'm offering him a litmus test of how he really feels. In my opinion, a man who is committed to not having children will have no problem getting snipped. If this option gives him pause, that means in his heart he did not close for himself the possibility of children.

I don't think it's that simple for everybody. He may associate his fertility with masculinity, or whatever. I am female and can only speak from a woman's perspective. Not wanting to have kids and having a complete hysterectomy are two entirely different things. Healthy women still prefer to keep their bodies intact for psychological reasons. It may work somewhat the same for guys. Having something done down there just dosn't feel exciting so to speak. I'm not finding the right words, but I hope you get the idea.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 09:42     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I do appreciate the other comments from PPs who took the time. It seems the overwhelming advice is to stay true to myself and NOT chase parenting if it something I see as taking away more than what it adds to my life. I don't necessarily think a vasectomy is for me, although I have seriously considered. It still does not take away the need to be a parent, because I could still change my mind further on and adopt, or be a step-dad to my partner's child. So I don't limit parenting to just biologically parenting here, I mean the institution of parenting. So in dating I choose women who are not mothers and who have no intention of being, if she is seeing the relationship over the long-term. I am always fully honest and open, just in case some PPs think I am not and am some type of player.

Thanks again for your comments

OP

It sounds to me like you're not willing to stand behind your choice not to have children. Losing the ability to father children takes away most scenarios with children - you'd have to actually date someone with a child to be a stepdad (which is up to you), and you'd have to decide to adopt. None of these choices can be sprung up on you as readily as pregnancy.

You are just really not sure whether you want children. You are NOT sure that you do not want children. If you were committed to the childless life, you'd get snipped already.


Isn't it kind of obvious that a committed person wouldn't seek opinions from anonymous strangers? Obviously, he is not sure, hence the questions. Nothing wrong with that.

No, there's nothing wrong with that. This is why I'm offering him a litmus test of how he really feels. In my opinion, a man who is committed to not having children will have no problem getting snipped. If this option gives him pause, that means in his heart he did not close for himself the possibility of children.
Anonymous
Post 04/03/2015 08:01     Subject: What's the Point of Chasing Marriage and Kids, Really?!
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm a 36 year old woman. I don't have kids and don't want kids. I'd like a long-term relationship but don't particularly care if it includes marriage or not. There may not be many of us, but we exist.


It seems like there are many people here making us out to be strange creatures walking around with emotional issues that would prevent intimacy.

I posed the question because I thought I was somehow setting myself up to miss out on the 'greener grass.' That's obviously not the case and so far it seems there are three types out there:

1. Those like you (potentially us) who can happily live without NEEDING to marry or have kids.

2. Those who think marriage and parenting are the gold standard for relationships and being family oriented, respectively; any deviation is a social mutation.

3. Those (like me) who are mentally and emotionally ambivalent; I don't NEED kids to feel complete/happy, but would only do it makes the woman I am in love with happy.

So number 3 highlights the 'trouble' because I am not sure if I will have regrets when the challenging times set in, or will suddenly want more after the first pregnancy. It is a very serious risk to take, so safe bet to avoid and say "not for me" altogether.

So for persons who have done parenting, did you do it because you/your relationship felt incomplete without it, or were you like number 3 going in?

That's my purpose for starting this thread, not to be told I am some social mutation because of my disposition.

Thanks.


I'm a 50 + woman. I never wanted to get married, really. I certainly never wanted children. I thought they were too much work, too much money, too much time. I didn't want to cut into my freedom and fun. But my husband really, really wanted them, so after more than 10 years of marriage we started trying to have a child.

It took awhile, but we did have a child in our 40s -- and he turned out to have a disability. So definitely time, money, and work. And our freedom and fun have been curtailed. That being said, it has still been probably the most moving and important experience in my life. It's a gift to actually have to put yourself second, think of others first, do things you normally wouldn't want to do. Our child is so fun, and funny, and kind. It would be so much of a lesser life never having known him.

I also truly enjoy being married. We really enjoy each other and have each other's backs. We are each other's cheerleaders. I also hated dating, so it's great not to have to keep starting over. That may be fun in your mid 30s, but it's a different story in your mid 50s.

I can echo much of what PP above says. I got married at 37 after three years of dating. Had always been ambivalent about kids (like my husband), but after about three years of marriage (and all the fantastic and exotic travel, fine dining, etc., that anyone could want) we decided, "oh what the heck - we've done everything else!" And, I can say our daughter has been unequivocally the best, most interesting, most fun thing I have ever experienced. And my husband agrees! It is funny, because he has NEVER been a kid person (still isn't, really), but our child is the apple of his eye.