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Anonymous wrote:What makes denying a gay couple a cake a legitimate religious issue?

Where exactly in the Bible does it say thou shalt turn away people whom you do not agree with?

More specifically, where did Jesus teach anything even remotely like this?

I can't seem to find it anywhere. Certainly not in the Gospels which are the first hand testimony of Christ's teachings. Anyone? Anyone? Citation, please?

If you can't come up with one then it's not really a bonafide religious issue. So please stop trying to wrap your homophobic bigotry up in religion thinking it can act as a shield. If even Jesus isn't backing you up on this then you are full of crap.

The bible states that marriage is between a man and a woman. A baker, who bakes a wedding cake for a gay couple means that baker is participating in the wedding. This is VERY different than a gay couple simply coming in to buy cookies, or any other baked goods already on the shelf - including a cake. Forcing someone to participate in something that is against their religious beliefs is what this law is about. It does not give shop owners permission to shout 'you're gay, get out".

Should a Halal shop owner be forced to participate in a Jewish wedding? I don't think so.

"Participating in the wedding?" Oh, please. By that calculus, the chinese factory that made the lace for the veil is also "participating in the wedding"

But you still didn't answer the question. Where exactly in the Bible does it say the baker cannot do business with them? And, since we are talking about Christians here, where, specifically, in the Gospels does it say that?

If the veil is special-ordered or custom made, you are talking about shop owner participation. Off the shelf? Nope

Huh. My Bible doesn't seem to have that clause. Did yours come with some kind of special Appendix of random new rules for what does and doesn't constitute "participation?"

Your bible has the 'marriage is between a man and a woman' line, and talks extensively of marriage.

You're aware that in your attempt to protect the rights of your chosen group, you are trampling on the rights of another group, right? Is that OK? Why is your chosen group more important and/or more worthy that another?

You mean the "right" to be a baker? Or a florist?

Should a Halal food establishment be required to cater a Jewish wedding? Can the Jew sue the Muslims if they refuse?

Yes, and yes.

PP -- hit post too soon, sorry. If the Jewish couple wants the catering services the Halal establishment provides, no, the Halal establishment should not be permitted to refuse service to the Jewish couple just because they are Jews. If they do, the Jewish couple should be permitted to sue.

Why are the Jew's rights more important that the Muslim's rights?

The Muslim's rights are not being infringed. No one is forcing them to participate in Jewish weddings. They made that choice by choosing the business they operate.

And on that, you are wrong. One does not give up their rights simply because they chose to operate a business. Again, you can feel free to introduce the amendment of your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes denying a gay couple a cake a legitimate religious issue?

Where exactly in the Bible does it say thou shalt turn away people whom you do not agree with?

More specifically, where did Jesus teach anything even remotely like this?

I can't seem to find it anywhere. Certainly not in the Gospels which are the first hand testimony of Christ's teachings. Anyone? Anyone? Citation, please?

If you can't come up with one then it's not really a bonafide religious issue. So please stop trying to wrap your homophobic bigotry up in religion thinking it can act as a shield. If even Jesus isn't backing you up on this then you are full of crap.

The bible states that marriage is between a man and a woman. A baker, who bakes a wedding cake for a gay couple means that baker is participating in the wedding. This is VERY different than a gay couple simply coming in to buy cookies, or any other baked goods already on the shelf - including a cake. Forcing someone to participate in something that is against their religious beliefs is what this law is about. It does not give shop owners permission to shout 'you're gay, get out".

Should a Halal shop owner be forced to participate in a Jewish wedding? I don't think so.

"Participating in the wedding?" Oh, please. By that calculus, the chinese factory that made the lace for the veil is also "participating in the wedding"

But you still didn't answer the question. Where exactly in the Bible does it say the baker cannot do business with them? And, since we are talking about Christians here, where, specifically, in the Gospels does it say that?

If the veil is special-ordered or custom made, you are talking about shop owner participation. Off the shelf? Nope

Huh. My Bible doesn't seem to have that clause. Did yours come with some kind of special Appendix of random new rules for what does and doesn't constitute "participation?"

Your bible has the 'marriage is between a man and a woman' line, and talks extensively of marriage.

You're aware that in your attempt to protect the rights of your chosen group, you are trampling on the rights of another group, right? Is that OK? Why is your chosen group more important and/or more worthy that another?

You mean the "right" to be a baker? Or a florist?

Should a Halal food establishment be required to cater a Jewish wedding? Can the Jew sue the Muslims if they refuse?

Yes, and yes.

PP -- hit post too soon, sorry. If the Jewish couple wants the catering services the Halal establishment provides, no, the Halal establishment should not be permitted to refuse service to the Jewish couple just because they are Jews. If they do, the Jewish couple should be permitted to sue.

Why are the Jew's rights more important that the Muslim's rights?

The Muslim's rights are not being infringed. No one is forcing them to participate in Jewish weddings. They made that choice by choosing the business they operate.

And on that, you are wrong. One does not give up their rights simply because they chose to operate a business. Again, you can feel free to introduce the amendment of your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is this different than providing service to blacks, jews, muslims or anyone else you don't like??? I think this law is extremely bigoted.

I think marriage needs an overhaul. It shouldn't be a federal thing, just a religious institution.

Because it's not about not liking someone! That's what is being pushed but it's not correct. It's about the religious belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. That doesn't mean the religious individual doesn't like gay people.

Again, people have argued that their religion prohibits interracial marriages. Should bakers therefore be permitted to refuse to bake a wedding cake for an interracial couple?

I believe the Constitution was amended to prohibit that. Feel free to introduce an amendment that covered what you'd like it to.

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Anonymous wrote:First step toward sharia law.

+1000

The conservatives who are in favor of turning away gay couples who want to buy wedding cakes are too short-sighted to realize that they are throwing the door wide open for Sharia law, and using the exact same approach, a Muslim business owner could then turn away Christian women if they aren't wearing a headscarf.

Very, very foolish and shortsighted. Typical conservative myopia. They are causing far more damage than they realize.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes denying a gay couple a cake a legitimate religious issue?

Where exactly in the Bible does it say thou shalt turn away people whom you do not agree with?

More specifically, where did Jesus teach anything even remotely like this?

I can't seem to find it anywhere. Certainly not in the Gospels which are the first hand testimony of Christ's teachings. Anyone? Anyone? Citation, please?

If you can't come up with one then it's not really a bonafide religious issue. So please stop trying to wrap your homophobic bigotry up in religion thinking it can act as a shield. If even Jesus isn't backing you up on this then you are full of crap.

The bible states that marriage is between a man and a woman. A baker, who bakes a wedding cake for a gay couple means that baker is participating in the wedding. This is VERY different than a gay couple simply coming in to buy cookies, or any other baked goods already on the shelf - including a cake. Forcing someone to participate in something that is against their religious beliefs is what this law is about. It does not give shop owners permission to shout 'you're gay, get out".

Should a Halal shop owner be forced to participate in a Jewish wedding? I don't think so.

"Participating in the wedding?" Oh, please. By that calculus, the chinese factory that made the lace for the veil is also "participating in the wedding"

But you still didn't answer the question. Where exactly in the Bible does it say the baker cannot do business with them? And, since we are talking about Christians here, where, specifically, in the Gospels does it say that?

If the veil is special-ordered or custom made, you are talking about shop owner participation. Off the shelf? Nope

Huh. My Bible doesn't seem to have that clause. Did yours come with some kind of special Appendix of random new rules for what does and doesn't constitute "participation?"

Your bible has the 'marriage is between a man and a woman' line, and talks extensively of marriage.

You're aware that in your attempt to protect the rights of your chosen group, you are trampling on the rights of another group, right? Is that OK? Why is your chosen group more important and/or more worthy that another?

You mean the "right" to be a baker? Or a florist?

Should a Halal food establishment be required to cater a Jewish wedding? Can the Jew sue the Muslims if they refuse?

Yes, and yes.

PP -- hit post too soon, sorry. If the Jewish couple wants the catering services the Halal establishment provides, no, the Halal establishment should not be permitted to refuse service to the Jewish couple just because they are Jews. If they do, the Jewish couple should be permitted to sue.

Why are the Jew's rights more important that the Muslim's rights?

The Muslim's rights are not being infringed. No one is forcing them to participate in Jewish weddings. They made that choice by choosing the business they operate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is this different than providing service to blacks, jews, muslims or anyone else you don't like??? I think this law is extremely bigoted.

I think marriage needs an overhaul. It shouldn't be a federal thing, just a religious institution.

Because it's not about not liking someone! That's what is being pushed but it's not correct. It's about the religious belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. That doesn't mean the religious individual doesn't like gay people.

Again, people have argued that their religion prohibits interracial marriages. Should bakers therefore be permitted to refuse to bake a wedding cake for an interracial couple?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
How is this different than providing service to blacks, jews, muslims or anyone else you don't like??? I think this law is extremely bigoted.

I think marriage needs an overhaul. It shouldn't be a federal thing, just a religious institution.


Because it's not about not liking someone! That's what is being pushed but it's not correct. It's about the religious belief that marriage is between a man and a woman. That doesn't mean the religious individual doesn't like gay people.


Again, people have argued that their religion prohibits interracial marriages. Should bakers therefore be permitted to refuse to bake a wedding cake for an interracial couple?

It all depends if the party with holding services or goods actually is in good standing with the religion/church as defined by the government. If someone with holds services based on religious objections, they must show they are a member of the religion and follow all the tenets of that religion. This will of course be determined by the government. So conservatives are in favor of the government determining who belongs and who does not belong to a religion.