Anonymous
Post 02/19/2015 09:28     Subject: Re:S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

I agree that it's a fad. The language of the world and business is English. That's clear everywhere I travel.

I've taken German, my husband took Russian, and my son Mandarin -- but we never use it.


I've taken Calculus and never use that either.


I'm the PP. I never took Calculus. Good move on my part since I've never needed it.


Then you'd be considered an under-achiever around these parts. Did you take any math beyond Algebra? If you did, that was a waste of your time, too, because in general, people don't use any math beyond Algebra IRL on a daily basis, unless you are in a STEM field, which clearly, you are not.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2015 09:14     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
does it annoy you when schools teache instrument/choir instead of science?

Nope, because at least at my kids' schools, those are treated as extras meeting once a week, maybe twice. Language is a more intensive exercise.

So you're against foreign language not Mandarin/Chinese?

Yes, my criticism applies to all foreign language study, not just Mandarin, although it is particularly applicable to Mandarin. As made clear in other posts, I'm not "against" foreign language, but rather critical of the mandated time spent on learning foreign languages.


How about the mandated time spent on learning math, science, English, or social studies? Are you critical of that too? I've certainly never used ox-redox reactions in my life; or had to solve a pair of simultaneous equations; or been asked my opinions of the motivations of the nurse vs. the friar in Romeo and Juliet.


Some people are against everything. There was a poster last year against fiction (Shakespeare and Greek Myth in particular). There are also "experts" who claim that if we abandon algebra as a requirement for high school graduation, we would raise the education achievement of minorities. Thankfully, these people are not in charge of the education policy, yet.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2015 07:28     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
does it annoy you when schools teache instrument/choir instead of science?

Nope, because at least at my kids' schools, those are treated as extras meeting once a week, maybe twice. Language is a more intensive exercise.

So you're against foreign language not Mandarin/Chinese?

Yes, my criticism applies to all foreign language study, not just Mandarin, although it is particularly applicable to Mandarin. As made clear in other posts, I'm not "against" foreign language, but rather critical of the mandated time spent on learning foreign languages.


How about the mandated time spent on learning math, science, English, or social studies? Are you critical of that too? I've certainly never used ox-redox reactions in my life; or had to solve a pair of simultaneous equations; or been asked my opinions of the motivations of the nurse vs. the friar in Romeo and Juliet.
Anonymous
Post 02/19/2015 02:31     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
does it annoy you when schools teache instrument/choir instead of science?

Nope, because at least at my kids' schools, those are treated as extras meeting once a week, maybe twice. Language is a more intensive exercise.

So you're against foreign language not Mandarin/Chinese?

Yes, my criticism applies to all foreign language study, not just Mandarin, although it is particularly applicable to Mandarin. As made clear in other posts, I'm not "against" foreign language, but rather critical of the mandated time spent on learning foreign languages.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 22:50     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We said all the same things about Japanese in the 80 s


Yup.

You guys are going to look pretty dumb in 20 years, sorry


20 years ago we were not stupid enough to bring in hundreds of thousands of Japanese college students for F1 visas and we didn't replace local workers with hundreds of thousands of Japanese H1Bs and OPT guest workers so that corporate giants could fire local workers.

Chinese are going to roll over our culture with our every man for himself, shoot ourselves in the foot attitude, let the 1% rule.

We should be protecting our ip from Chinese, stopping the corporate hacking supported by China.

http://intelreport.mandiant.com/
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 22:40     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
does it annoy you when schools teache instrument/choir instead of science?

Nope, because at least at my kids' schools, those are treated as extras meeting once a week, maybe twice. Language is a more intensive exercise.


So you're against foreign language not Mandarin/Chinese?
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 22:12     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unlike the situation in Europe, Chinese businessmen and politicians are not likely to expect that a typical American caucasian, latino or AA would understand their language - which could be to huge advantage


Agree. Even if the meeting is conducted in English, they may speak to each other in their native language, in which case, it is very advantageous that you understand their language.

I'm of a particular heritage, and can speak/understand passably. But, I don't "look" like that ethnicity, so I've been told by people of that ethnicity. There have been many times where people were speaking in that language about me, and I could understand every word. Sometimes I'll respond to them in that language or in English, and the shock on their faces is priceless.


I know of companies that do business with China, who in their talent recruitment efforts, deliberately pass over Mandarin speaking Asians in favor of non-Asian Mandarin speakers for that very reason of advantage.


Yeah, that is a fun part of speaking Chinese as a white guy. On various trips - usually on bus and train rides - I have listened with interest as mainland Chinese passengers loudly discussed my choice in clothes, the maps and books I was reading, what country I was likely from, if I worked for the CIA or not and so forth. On a recent bus ride from HK airport to downtown the couple across from me debated what a white guy could possibly be doing on a public bus and concluded based on that and my comfortable travel shoes that I must be quite poor. It is always mainlanders who pull this shit and never Taiwanese. If HK people do it I wouldn't have a clue since I don't understand Cantonese.

Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 22:06     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

People don't speak the written language.


Well, I don't think you are a native speaker, are you? I am. I can tell you for the majority of Chinese dialect, the difference is only in pronunciation. The vocabulary is the same, the grammar is the same, the difference in pronunciation minor. There is a reason it is called dialect. And the reason why China didn't develop multiple languages as Europe did. Well, it is because we share the same written language.


So somebody who speaks only Cantonese can understand somebody who speaks only Mandarin, when they speak to each other, without using any writing?



They will not understand each other if speaking. I know Taiwanese lawyers who when working on deals in Hong Kong (all local lawyers here - I'm not talking about expats) speak in English. The contracts are in English but so are all the communications in and outside of work. Why? Because the Taiwanese grew up speaking Mandarin and Taiwanese then got JDs and LLMs in the US; the HK lawyers grew up with Cantonese but were educated in English in HK and UK universities. Their only option to communicate is English.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 22:05     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unlike the situation in Europe, Chinese businessmen and politicians are not likely to expect that a typical American caucasian, latino or AA would understand their language - which could be to huge advantage


Agree. Even if the meeting is conducted in English, they may speak to each other in their native language, in which case, it is very advantageous that you understand their language.

I'm of a particular heritage, and can speak/understand passably. But, I don't "look" like that ethnicity, so I've been told by people of that ethnicity. There have been many times where people were speaking in that language about me, and I could understand every word. Sometimes I'll respond to them in that language or in English, and the shock on their faces is priceless.


I know of companies that do business with China, who in their talent recruitment efforts, deliberately pass over Mandarin speaking Asians in favor of non-Asian Mandarin speakers for that very reason of advantage.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 21:56     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:Unlike the situation in Europe, Chinese businessmen and politicians are not likely to expect that a typical American caucasian, latino or AA would understand their language - which could be to huge advantage


Agree. Even if the meeting is conducted in English, they may speak to each other in their native language, in which case, it is very advantageous that you understand their language.

I'm of a particular heritage, and can speak/understand passably. But, I don't "look" like that ethnicity, so I've been told by people of that ethnicity. There have been many times where people were speaking in that language about me, and I could understand every word. Sometimes I'll respond to them in that language or in English, and the shock on their faces is priceless.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 21:49     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Unlike the situation in Europe, Chinese businessmen and politicians are not likely to expect that a typical American caucasian, latino or AA would understand their language - which could be to huge advantage
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 21:20     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

People don't speak the written language.


Well, I don't think you are a native speaker, are you? I am. I can tell you for the majority of Chinese dialect, the difference is only in pronunciation. The vocabulary is the same, the grammar is the same, the difference in pronunciation minor. There is a reason it is called dialect. And the reason why China didn't develop multiple languages as Europe did. Well, it is because we share the same written language.


So somebody who speaks only Cantonese can understand somebody who speaks only Mandarin, when they speak to each other, without using any writing?
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 21:06     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So basically what some of you are saying is that unless a skill or study registers with and relates to you personally then you perceive it as a pointless pursuit.
Hmmmm - I see why you have such difficulty understanding. Enjoy your small closed-minded corner.

No, you are missing my point. I'm NOT saying Mandarin or any other language is pointless, NOR am I saying it is pointless to study something that doesn't relate to me. What I AM saying is that students have a limited amount of time for learning, and perhaps for most students, that limited items is better spent learning things more useful than Mandarin. For those who really want to study Mandarin, or any other language, they should be able to study it. But for the many other students who won't get a lot from Mandarin, maybe their time is better spent pursuing something more useful.

When a school requires all students to start learning a language in 4th grade (or whatever age), it is essentially making a value judgment that learning another language is more valuable than whatever might otherwise fit in that spot - perhaps a daily science class, or maybe a world history class. That's the value judgment that annoys me, because I think more kids will get value out off the science class than the Mandarin class.


Okay so don't send your kid to a Chinese immersion school. Problem solved. As for your questions/concerns about everyone else's children MYOB.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 18:58     Subject: Re:S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
Anonymous wrote:That would surprise me too. The frogs get all pissy if you don’t speak their language perfectly - and none of us are going to be able to do that. A few well chosen phrases can do wonders with the ladies, however.


My experience has been that they appreciate your effort to speak French, however imperfectly.

Then they respond to you in English anyway.
Anonymous
Post 02/18/2015 17:39     Subject: S/O what''s the point of studying Mandarin?
I'm Korean and Mandarin is the most studied language in S. Korea after English and catching up fast. Yes, Mandarin is very trendy but China is now S. Korea's biggest trading partner, bigger than the US. If you want to do business in Asia, it's very helpful to know Mandarin.

Since my kid already speaks English, he studies Mandarin as a second language not Korean.