Anonymous
Post 02/17/2015 08:21     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one said the US was behind the beheadings in Libya.. But somehow you construed comments that there is no reason for Arabs to demonstrate in favor of the US to means the PPs believed the US is behind ISIS atrocities.

Who is the contortionist?


I did not say demonstrate in favor of the us. I said against Charlie hedbo, against Jewish deli slayings, against Isis atrocities.


At 18:06 you said:

"I think people would like to see Muslims demonstrating against this stuff. We see so very many demonstrations against the west. One for the west would be powerful."

Then you responded to a couple of posters asking why they should demonstrate for the US when its many missteps have brought more misery to the Middle East by saying they thought the US was behind the Libyan beheadings.

Your current swerve to say you didn't mean in favor of the US but against Hebdo, deli slayings and against Isis is weak.

There were thousands of Arabs participating in the demonstrations in Paris against the Charlie Hebdo and Jewish deli slayings. This included high level officials from a number of Arab governments.

As for Isis, the biggest demonstrations against have been in Jordan, but for some reason that doesn't count in your book because their pilot was burned.




Yes, for western values. Not for the US ( a political entity). There should be demonstrations organized by Muslim communities, like the vibrant ones in Michigan or Charlotte. Thats my opinion.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2015 08:18     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Shooter in Copenhagen was Palestinian by way of Jordan. raised in well maintained govt. Subsidized Copenhagen neighborhood w parks and gyms..turned to petty crime and radicalized in prison. Mourned by fellow "brotha" gang members. Quote from mourner "there's only one terrorist and thats the guy who drew the prophet....if you push Muslims, its going to come back to you. (adnan abdec)". - paraphrased from today's Post.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2015 08:07     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
The reality is this - Americans are asleep. We are fools if we think this isn't coming here. It is. Radical Islam is a cancer. Cancer spreads until it is cut out and completely annihilated. Egyptian Christians being beheaded in mass makes us sad. It makes us gasp. It hurts our hearts. Hearing that a pilot was placed in a cage and burned alive sears images into our heads that we push away. Children being crucified is horrifying. It's too painful and too ugly to think about. We are shocked and angry and sad. But we lose interest quickly and go back to our daily lives.

It will be here next. That is not a doomsday prediction. Unless we take steps to rid the world of this cancer, it will spread. I am as liberal as they come. I hate war. I have two sons who have already done two tours each in that god-forsaken part of the country. The last thing I want to see is more troops deployed. It's time to take it up a notch. Bomb the fuck out of every single place ISIS is know to train. Sorry about the civilian causalities. Their lives were pretty damn shitty to begin with. Sometimes death is better. And if a nuclear option becomes necessary, at least it ends the war. It worked last time.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2015 07:45     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:

I made what is called a reductio ad absurdum. It is of course absurd to define Christianity by the Westboro Baptist Church. It is equally absurd to define Islam by ISIS. If you disagree with either of those statements, please explain why you disagree.


The Westboro church consists of 50 people in one town in Kansas. ISIS has at least 1 million followers spread over many countries with numerous scholars justifying its beliefs in the Koran. So I'd say that ISIS is a significant current in contemporary Islamic thought, whereas the Westboro church is an extreme fringe.

Nobody is "defining" Islam by ISIS. In terms of its size and influence ISIS within Islam is more comparable to say the Seventh day Adventists within Christianity. In terms of its justification of violence, ISIS has no comparison in contemporary Christianity.


First intelligent post.
Anonymous
Post 02/17/2015 07:44     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one said the US was behind the beheadings in Libya.. But somehow you construed comments that there is no reason for Arabs to demonstrate in favor of the US to means the PPs believed the US is behind ISIS atrocities.

Who is the contortionist?


I did not say demonstrate in favor of the us. I said against Charlie hedbo, against Jewish deli slayings, against Isis atrocities.


At 18:06 you said:

"I think people would like to see Muslims demonstrating against this stuff. We see so very many demonstrations against the west. One for the west would be powerful."

Then you responded to a couple of posters asking why they should demonstrate for the US when its many missteps have brought more misery to the Middle East by saying they thought the US was behind the Libyan beheadings.

Your current swerve to say you didn't mean in favor of the US but against Hebdo, deli slayings and against Isis is weak.

There were thousands of Arabs participating in the demonstrations in Paris against the Charlie Hebdo and Jewish deli slayings. This included high level officials from a number of Arab governments.

As for Isis, the biggest demonstrations against have been in Jordan, but for some reason that doesn't count in your book because their pilot was burned.


Anonymous
Post 02/17/2015 07:29     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
jsteele wrote:

I made what is called a reductio ad absurdum. It is of course absurd to define Christianity by the Westboro Baptist Church. It is equally absurd to define Islam by ISIS. If you disagree with either of those statements, please explain why you disagree.


The Westboro church consists of 50 people in one town in Kansas. ISIS has at least 1 million followers spread over many countries with numerous scholars justifying its beliefs in the Koran. So I'd say that ISIS is a significant current in contemporary Islamic thought, whereas the Westboro church is an extreme fringe.

Nobody is "defining" Islam by ISIS. In terms of its size and influence ISIS within Islam is more comparable to say the Seventh day Adventists within Christianity. In terms of its justification of violence, ISIS has no comparison in contemporary Christianity.
jsteele
Post 02/16/2015 23:30     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Do you really believe Europe's Muslims are so fragile? I don't see mass Muslim insurrection in Europe ever happening on a mass scale. I've lived in Europe, I've been back several times in the past few years, I have relatives there, I read two of the languages fluently and a third somewhat, heck I even dated a few Algerians living in Europe (admittedly a while ago). Maybe a few thousand more might be turned to ISIS, maybe a few more terrorist attacks here and in Europe. But no way tens of thousands of Muslims in Europe are going to launch mass insurrection against their European states. That's ISIS' pipe dream but we don't need to buy into it.

Meanwhile, dissidents within Arab and Islamic countries are in jail or fear for their lives. Our silence hurts them rather than helping them.

It's like Chamberlain, always conciliating and missing the bigger picture. Are we really that scared? Are we really that impotent? Do we really see no way to handle alienation besides silence and winking at the anti-immigration folks? Like, I dunno, economic and social measures to reduce alienation? Is our silence really the only possible response? I'm sure you'll find the comparison to Chamberlain flattering, you're welcome.


Based on your logic, all Christianity should be criticized because of groups like the LRA, the KKK, and Westboro Baptist. Those groups prove that Christianity is clearly a religion of hate. If you suggest otherwise, you are clearly appeasing the extremists.

Do you believe that the best way to support moderate voices within Islam is to insult their religion?


Did you really just compare the Westboro baptist church to IS? You're stretching there, I hope you realize that.


I made what is called a reductio ad absurdum. It is of course absurd to define Christianity by the Westboro Baptist Church. It is equally absurd to define Islam by ISIS. If you disagree with either of those statements, please explain why you disagree.
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 23:17     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:Do not send US soldiers into this combat.

what US needs to do is start sending the Saudis home and isolate the Saudia Arabia elite until the kingdom changes it's funding of terror.

There are over 250,000 Saudi Students on F1 visa in US for 2014.

All paid by Saudi Arabia government and picked by Saudi Arabia government. I am sure lots of the non-elite included in this group.

See King Abdullah Scholarship - http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20150124231512


You forgot the best part

In addition to this, a female applicant needs to be accompanied by a mahram (male guardian) who can stay with her until she finishes her studies.
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 22:51     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Do not send US soldiers into this combat.

what US needs to do is start sending the Saudis home and isolate the Saudia Arabia elite until the kingdom changes it's funding of terror.

There are over 250,000 Saudi Students on F1 visa in US for 2014.

All paid by Saudi Arabia government and picked by Saudi Arabia government. I am sure lots of the non-elite included in this group.

See King Abdullah Scholarship - http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20150124231512
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 22:40     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Based on your logic, all Christianity should be criticized because of groups like the LRA, the KKK, and Westboro Baptist. Those groups prove that Christianity is clearly a religion of hate. If you suggest otherwise, you are clearly appeasing the extremists.



Did you really just compare the Westboro baptist church to IS? You're stretching there, I hope you realize that.


Well the 50 members of the Westboro church are so *rude* -- they yell and hold picket signs at funerals! Clearly they are the equivalent in their size and in their crimes to the mass murderers of ISIS.
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 22:19     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Do you really believe Europe's Muslims are so fragile? I don't see mass Muslim insurrection in Europe ever happening on a mass scale. I've lived in Europe, I've been back several times in the past few years, I have relatives there, I read two of the languages fluently and a third somewhat, heck I even dated a few Algerians living in Europe (admittedly a while ago). Maybe a few thousand more might be turned to ISIS, maybe a few more terrorist attacks here and in Europe. But no way tens of thousands of Muslims in Europe are going to launch mass insurrection against their European states. That's ISIS' pipe dream but we don't need to buy into it.

Meanwhile, dissidents within Arab and Islamic countries are in jail or fear for their lives. Our silence hurts them rather than helping them.

It's like Chamberlain, always conciliating and missing the bigger picture. Are we really that scared? Are we really that impotent? Do we really see no way to handle alienation besides silence and winking at the anti-immigration folks? Like, I dunno, economic and social measures to reduce alienation? Is our silence really the only possible response? I'm sure you'll find the comparison to Chamberlain flattering, you're welcome.


Based on your logic, all Christianity should be criticized because of groups like the LRA, the KKK, and Westboro Baptist. Those groups prove that Christianity is clearly a religion of hate. If you suggest otherwise, you are clearly appeasing the extremists.

Do you believe that the best way to support moderate voices within Islam is to insult their religion?


Did you really just compare the Westboro baptist church to IS? You're stretching there, I hope you realize that.
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 22:19     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
Anonymous wrote:No one said the US was behind the beheadings in Libya.. But somehow you construed comments that there is no reason for Arabs to demonstrate in favor of the US to means the PPs believed the US is behind ISIS atrocities.

Who is the contortionist?


I did not say demonstrate in favor of the us. I said against Charlie hedbo, against Jewish deli slayings, against Isis atrocities.
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 21:53     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Peaceful religion


As I have said before, the communists used to talk about "sharpening the contradictions" and creating a situation in which people were forced to choose sides. IS is following the same strategy. Read this article about the latest issue of the group's magazine:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/12/new-islamic-state-magazines-brags-eliminating-grayzone/

They are hoping for a "war of civilizations" so that Muslims in the West will be forced to make "one of two choices".

The more people like you react in the way you are, the better it serves the goals of IS. IS absolutely wants you to hold the entire Muslim religion guilty for their deeds. They absolutely want you to hate all Muslims.



Well do you see Muslims in the US speaking out against them?
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 21:47     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
No one said the US was behind the beheadings in Libya.. But somehow you construed comments that there is no reason for Arabs to demonstrate in favor of the US to means the PPs believed the US is behind ISIS atrocities.

Who is the contortionist?
Anonymous
Post 02/16/2015 19:20     Subject: Re:21 Egyptian Christians Beheaded in Libya
As a woman I'd rather live in Afghanistan now than under the Taliban - but after you. You people pick and choose your causes and injustices. Somehow America is responsible for beheadings on Libyan beaches. Thank god your numbers are few. Go join the circus, contortionist.